CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #10

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  • #801
So in all those calls that CM made to Joey, and we are to believe he had permission to get into the QB accounts and we are to believe he called Joey to advise him of when CM accessed the account, he didn’t think to advise JM that he couldn’t delete the QB account as he was supposedly instructed to do?

Instead he stayed on the phone for over an hour with QB pretending to be Joey and trying to delete. Why not just hang up with QB, dial up Joey and let him know he couldn’t do it?

Why even pretend to be Joey if he had permission. Makes zero sense.
 
  • #802
OK

But you can understand that I am currently comfortable in my position?

There is no evidence at trial, to date, of an alternative accounting system.

Rather Chase himself said he was given the cheques by Joey on the 4th. And we know this was a lie. He printed them on the 5th.

So you guys can speculate any kind of other arrangements here on WS - but personally, I will await actual evidence from the defence.

You can be comfortable in your position. I am comfortable in my position of just waiting it out until the end to decide... I hope that you can understand that.
 
  • #803
Nowhere near the same frequency as before though right? Something had changed...
There were 39 from 2/4 - 2/19 as opposed to over 200 in the 2 weeks prior.
 
  • #804
Bernina... do you know... would Chase have had to have an account there as well? Would he have had to do a background check if it was a business account?
In my experience, with my business, no to both.
 
  • #805
There must have been something incriminating on the VMs for someone (the killer) to manually delete the messages eg plans to meet up that day/arguments? Wonder how they had the password for Joey’s VM. Maybe ...

1) someone had seen Joey enter VM password before
2) Joey had one of those easily guessed passwords like 1234
3) the injuries to Joey’s leg and rib could have been acquired whilst being coerced to provide said password?

JMO.

Or Joey had no security on his phone?

Maybe you can just turn his phone on and *1 the VM

Like most people these days, I have pass / fingerprint on my phone but I didn't in 2010
 
  • #806
  • #807
I am guessing it’s just another coincidence that Chase just happened to back date the cheques to the day the family were murdered. He could of chosen the 2nd/3rd for example. This man just has the worst luck possible.

I mean he just happens to ping close to the burial site, writes cheques that would indicate he knew when the family had died, switched off his phone for multiple hours when the family were being murdered.

The list is endless of how bad his luck was that weekend. It’s no wonder he sucks at gambling as he just couldn’t catch a break :D

And happens to cut his hand in a freak accident!
 
  • #808
There must have been something incriminating on the VMs for someone (the killer) to manually delete the messages eg plans to meet up that day/arguments? Wonder how they had the password for Joey’s VM. Maybe ...

1) someone had seen Joey enter VM password before
2) Joey had one of those easily guessed passwords like 1234
3) the injuries to Joey’s leg and rib could have been acquired whilst being coerced to provide said password?

JMO.

Well, we know it wasn't done from Joey's phone directly because it would have had to have been turned on and there is no indication that it was.

I *think* it could have been done from any other phone, as long as the person had the PIN. If his VM was full.... there were 25 messages that had to be listened to and dumped (personally I know that I can fast forward on my home phone messages and delete, but still takes time). It is unclear if calling Joey's phone and just waiting for the message to be done and hitting the # key (?) and then entering a PIN would have worked?

There were questions with the T-Mobile guy about accessing them from another T-Mobile phone ... but it wasn't really very clear LOL So not sure what that was all about.

There are definitely other ways to have deleted those messages. I wish they had asked Mike about it, he may have listened to them and deleted them, for no other reason than to see if there was anything in them that would give the family an idea of where the family was. I don't think it was 100% done for nefarious reasons. JMO
 
  • #809
A tasty bottle of french white wine
I am glad you explained it. My mind was thinking of so many possibilities, but wine wasn’t one of them. Ha.
 
  • #810
A current case I know about where greed for money was the motive is the case where a brother who was in partnership with his other brother.

Sorry the defendant's last name escapes me at the moment. Paul something and his brother was named Keith iirc. There is a forum here on that case.

The murderer was going to be cut out of the businesses they had worked together on due to his lack of integrity, and lack of positive input including excessive spending beyond his means. Sound familiar?

Coincidently, that suspect also murdered four. His brother, the brother's wife, and he slit the throats of their two young children then set their home on fire.

These are victims he had known all of his life, and supposedly possibly loved at some point.

So even with an emotional attachment, he didnt blink an eye in brutally murdering all four.

CM didnt have any emotional attachment or bond with Summer or the two children. Imo, he detested them. So he murdered them without one regret or one bit of remorse. Imo. They were simply obstacles to him standing in his way.

Of course it seems the other suspect doesn't have any remorse either for murdering his own brother, and his entire family. Imo

It really does show how evil greed truly can be. Unfortunately many murderers have had the very same motive when murdering their victims.

That is why murdering anyone for financial gain, no matter how large or small the financial gain, it is a legal prong for the cases to be death penalty qualified cases.

Another case I've mentioned before was about a best friend, and he also had done business deals with the victim.

He went to the victim wanting a 250k loan to pay off his gambling debts. His long time friend refused knowing he would just create more gambling debt. When he refused his friend murdered him, and stole part of the man's coin collection, then sold them, and spent it at the casino tables.

There are a multitude of cases with this same motive though.

Jmo
And the late author Ann Rule has described hundreds of cases of devious relatives and friends who killed for cash. Great books.
 
  • #811
I guess I am old fashioned about evidential burden

But if the defence wants to claim Joey presigned blanks, gave chase 76 blanks, told him to delete cheques, asked him to delete quickbooks, then the evidential burden is upon the defence to establish an evidential basis for it.

Meanwhile the following has been shown

1. The signatures after 4 feb were different
2. Joey died at the lastest morning 5 feb so never signed any more cheques after that
3. Chase said he was given signed cheques on 4 feb
4. QB evidence proves chase created the same after 4 feb

So quite simply, at this point in the trial, there is no evidence of this strange accounting system

I completely agree with you. I will say however, there is a reason attorneys sometimes ask a question even when they know there will be an objection or make a comment knowing it will be stricken. Sometimes just floating an idea can become a thought in a juror’s head. Sometimes all it takes is a thought in a juror’s head.
 
  • #812
Why even pretend to be Joey if he had permission. Makes zero sense.

This is why I drone on about natural and obvious inferences.

We have to follow the evidence, not speculate unlikely answers on every front
 
  • #813
I completely agree with you. I will say however, there is a reason attorneys sometimes ask a question even when they know there will be an objection or make a comment knowing it will be stricken. Sometimes just floating an idea can become a thought in a juror’s head. Sometimes all it takes is a thought in a juror’s head.

Oh I agree

Chase is testifying by sock puppet
 
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  • #814
So why do you possibly agree with it, when there is no evidence for it?

Let's be clear here... the defense has not presented their case yet.

As for why I could even remotely believe this could be a possibility... personal experience. Without going into to much detail... I am self-employed... I am sub-contracted by the person that is contracted to provide a service. It is probably even less formal than what Joey and Chase were doing, as it's myself and my Mom. I think it may be because tax rules are a bit different, yet similar (yes I do my taxes haha) The situation is actually so very similar it's almost scary LOL I can say though that doing it the way we have, has created WAY LESS paperwork, but it's legal and it works for us ;)
 
  • #815
  • #816
Or Joey had no security on his phone?

Maybe you can just turn his phone on and *1 the VM

Like most people these days, I have pass / fingerprint on my phone but I didn't in 2010
But then his phone records should have shown that, and they didn't.
 
  • #817
And the late author Ann Rule has described hundreds of cases of devious relatives and friends who killed for cash. Great books.
Oh I read all her books. I had no idea she died! Waaaahhhh
 
  • #818
I am glad you explained it. My mind was thinking of so many possibilities, but wine wasn’t one of them. Ha.
bahahaha That's why I wasn't agreeing to anything LOL

Wine I can do ... and I don't drink much! lol
 
  • #819
I completely agree with you. I will say however, there is a reason attorneys sometimes ask a question even when they know there will be an objection or make a comment knowing it will be stricken. Sometimes just floating an idea can become a thought in a juror’s head. Sometimes all it takes is a thought in a juror’s head.

Exactly, and if I was on that jury, I "heard" those questions. But I have also made notes about them haha They are still just questions.
 
  • #820
But then his phone records should have shown that, and they didn't.

Was it actually asked by either side if JM DID have a pin or password protected phone? I don't recall that.
 
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