CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #11

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  • #581
I can't read those :confused: Can you tell me how much Joey paid MSM? and then how much Chase was paid?


Regardless of whether Joey fired Chase or not, he was going to have to figure something out to get more help than just 1 person. 1 other person could not make, ship, install those fountains IMO Hypothetically, if Joey was to sign a contract to do 500 fountains for a chain business( was it a hotel?), I can't recall the rumour... but would anyone expect 1 person to make and install all of those? Take out the Chase factor, insert any competent person that could theoretically make those fountains, can 1 person do it?

Metro Sheet Metal, they were already picking up the slack.
 
  • #582
I am quite certain, that he had been planning these murders for a LOOOONG time.

Ah, so it's not because JM was going to fire him.
 
  • #583
Metro Sheet Metal, they were already picking up the slack.

Right, but why did they go into business with MSM to begin with? It's my understanding it was because they were getting busier. Chase couldn't, or maybe Joey just realized he was not capable of doing it by himself, so this is the decision he made and came into an agreements with MSM. I don't disagree that according to Sequieda Jr., they were doing some of the work that Chase was supposed to be doing that last month. IIRC it was some plumbing and electrical for a or some fountains. What I failed to see is where was Chase? He wasn't in the casino every day. The defense implied that he was off installing fountains or something... so we will see if they can show that he was 'busy' doing other things for the business. I don't even disagree that maybe MSM should have been paid for that extra work, and I'm not sure they were... and Joey should have taken that out of Chase's "cut".

I would love to see the books... would love to see where the money was going, how many custom fountains were ordered, how much Chase was supposed to get paid, etc. I would especially like to see how many were ordered in 2009 and would like to see if there actually was an increase in business. From what I have been able to see (in some spreadsheets), business had picked up in late 2009.
 
  • #584
CM can "say" he wasn't near the grave sites until the cows come home. However, his cell phone placed him there, no matter HOW you want to slice it. THIS is a fact of the case the DT can NOT contest.
No, it isn't a fact.
 
  • #585
Right, but why did they go into business with MSM to begin with? It's my understanding it was because they were getting busier. Chase couldn't, or maybe Joey just realized he was not capable of doing it by himself, so this is the decision he made and came into an agreements with MSM. I don't disagree that according to Sequinned Jr., they were doing some of the work that Chase was supposed to be doing that last month. IIRC it was some plumbing and electrical for a or some fountains. What I failed to see is where was Chase? He wasn't in the casino every day. The defense implied that he was off installing fountains or something... so we will see if they can show that he was 'busy' doing other things for the business. I don't even disagree that maybe MSM should have been paid for that extra work, and I'm not sure they were... and Joey should have taken that out of Chase's "cut".

I would love to see the books... would love to see where the money was going, how many custom fountains were ordered, how much Chase was supposed to get paid, etc. I would especially like to see how many were ordered in 2009 and would like to see if there actually was an increase in business. From what I have been able to see (in some spreadsheets), business had picked up in late 2009.
In CM's first LE interview he stated that MSM WAS doing the manufacturing (welding) and he was doing the plumbing, electrical, video, and shipping. Sequinned rightly was upset that they were now doing the bulk of the labor including CM's part and not being compensated.
Although NOT a witness, PM said that JM was going to give CM some "competition" to get his act together because he was not performing up to snuff, there had been complaints, missed deadlines, thefts of pumps for CM's own projects, etc.

It sounds to me like CM was already on his way out.
 
  • #586
In CM's first LE interview he stated that MSM WAS doing the manufacturing (welding) and he was doing the plumbing, electrical, video, and shipping. Sequinned rightly was upset that they were now doing the bulk of the labor including CM's part and not being compensated.
Although NOT a witness, PM said that JM was going to give CM some "competition" to get his act together because he was not performing up to snuff, there had been complaints, missed deadlines, thefts of pumps for CM's own projects, etc.

It sounds to me like CM was already on his way out.

BBM This IS what the agreement was according to Sequieda.

Again, I don't disagree that they may have done some of the other work.... I just don't know why, and I don't believe it was because he was in the casino for the full month of January based on the information I have available. JMO
 
  • #587
But let me play devil’s advocate here. I think it indicates Joseph owes Merritt money. That’s why he tacks on the 2 fountains at the end - it’s additional money he owes to Merritt for work done. (I really don’t think it means that. I am honestly not clear what it means. I am sure Maline is going to claim it means JM owed Merritt.)
I disagree. We are talking about a lazy, sneaky, thieving, good-for-nothing, rip-off, con-artist CM. I highly doubt that JM owed him anything, it was the other way around. Did CM ever pay him back for supporting his family, back when he was in the slammer, before? Doubt it. Or the $$ JM shelled out, when CM's tools were "stolen?" Even CM's former secretary testified, that he was cheating JM. Heck, the guy never even paid for his OWN lunch, whenever they met. God forbid, HE would've ever picked up the tab. I think this money was another reason, for CM to want JM dead.
 
  • #588
In the earlier threads, we went through a lot of different ways he could have gone down to the border and come back to be able to hit a tower in Corona, it's a very tight timeline IMO. IF he went to MSM that Monday morning.... then had to go get the Trooper (where ever it was?) then down to the border and back before 1 or 1:30 (can't recall the exact time of that call), it was doable, but tight IMO
Maybe he dropped the Isuzu off, sometime on Sunday. And crossed the border to put a bet on the Superbowl? He certainly had money, burning a hole in his pocket.
 
  • #589
Ah, so it's not because JM was going to fire him.
The condition of the departed's remains, has completely convinced me, that the perpetrator had a tremendous amount of hatred and resentment, in his demented mind. More than likely accumulated over years.
 
  • #590
The condition of the departed's remains, has completely convinced me, that the perpetrator had a tremendous amount of hatred and resentment, in his demented mind. More than likely accumulated over years.

There was extreme hatred and rage. So far nothing shows Chase had (reason for) that kind of hatred and rage toward JM. It's more like Kavanaugh from what we know about him.
 
  • #591
Maybe he dropped the Isuzu off, sometime on Sunday. And crossed the border to put a bet on the Superbowl? He certainly had money, burning a hole in his pocket.

But it had to be parked there on the Monday, according to the security company that towed the vehicle. They testified early in the trial.
 
  • #592
d
 
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  • #593
np, I was trying to see if the theory could fit for me LOL Why do you think LE said they verified it, if they really hadn't? I had expected to eventually hear "how" they verified it.

I was wondering if he (Joey) did use his CC? And maybe the prosecution didn't want to be the one's to introduce those records. I think it would have opened it up for the defense to cross exam about the rest of the transactions. Just a thought.
BBM missy do you have a trial source for that please?


This was DuGal's testimony:

Day 5 Part 3 [timestamp 18.32 in video]

S Daugherty: During the course of that interview did the defendant describe meeting with Joseph McStay on February 4th 2010?

T DuGal: He did.

SD: Did you attempt to corroborate the fact that the meeting ever took place?

TD: I did.

SD: What did you do?

TD: So he told me that it was a pretty traditional meeting, that Joseph and him talked on the phone every day, that there was some money that they had to exchange because he worked for Joseph, he had his own company and they were doing water fountains and water features together, the defendant was in charge of custom water features, Joseph was in charge of – he basically owned the company and took orders and did much more than just, Joseph wasn’t involved in the building – he essentially was a builder so he said I had to have everyday communication, money exchanges so Joseph drove from Fallbrook according to the defendant, to Rancho Cucamonga to meet with him at Chick-fil-A pretty close to his residence, and I don’t remember the address but it’s not far from his residence, he said that they had met there for lunch, that they ate lunch there, they were there a couple of hours, they talked about work, they exchanged cheques, and then he left and Joseph went home. So after the meeting I went to Chick-fil-A and I tried to obtain the video, surveillance video, and unfortunately because of the way this, this what ends up being a homicide, was reported, uh we were whatever it was the 17th, um he claims this meeting occurred on the 4th that’s 13 days, most businesses don’t hold their video that long and neither did Chick-fil-A. It was gone a couple of days earlier than when I checked.

---

This was Scott Weitzman's testimony:

Day 22 Part 2 [9.53 timestamp in video]

Melissa Rodriguez: During the opportunity that you had to review the particular bank records did you look at transactions that occurred on or around February 4th of 2010 from both Mr McStay’s account and the defendant’s account?

SW: Yes.

MR: Did you notice any transactions for a Chick-fil-A restaurant?

SW: No I did not see any.

MR: And when you had that opportunity to review both of those accounts did it appear that both of those accounts used their debit card or made purchases from various restaurants and things like that?

SW: Yes. [objection – vague as to time – overruled]

---------

So where do you think the prosecution is going with this? Does it look as if their case is that Joey and Chase met for lunch?

They've also shown the cell tower maps showing that Joey's phone moved from the residence to Chick-fil-A and Merritt's did not.

Why would the prosecutors ask these questions if one of their other witnesses had testified the meeting was verified?

Why do you think the defense didn't bring out in cross-examination that there was indeed evidence to corroborate the meeting and that the detective and the forensic accountant did a sloppy investigation or didn't look at credit card records or whatever you believe could corroborate it?
 
  • #594
In CM's first LE interview he stated that MSM WAS doing the manufacturing (welding) and he was doing the plumbing, electrical, video, and shipping. Sequinned rightly was upset that they were now doing the bulk of the labor including CM's part and not being compensated.
Although NOT a witness, PM said that JM was going to give CM some "competition" to get his act together because he was not performing up to snuff, there had been complaints, missed deadlines, thefts of pumps for CM's own projects, etc.

It sounds to me like CM was already on his way out.
I was interested to hear the judge pick up on the fact that Chase didn't tell the detectives any of this recent stuff but did paint a nice rosy picture of their working relationship, during the hearing for dismissal.
 
  • #595
BBM This IS what the agreement was according to Sequieda.

Again, I don't disagree that they may have done some of the other work.... I just don't know why, and I don't believe it was because he was in the casino for the full month of January based on the information I have available. JMO
I don't believe Sequeida knew exactly that it was January, he seemed to think it was more that general time frame including the end of 2009. Also Chase had no bank account between November 5th and February 3rd, so there wouldn't have been casino cash withdrawals for that period.
 
  • #596
There was extreme hatred and rage. So far nothing shows Chase had (reason for) that kind of hatred and rage toward JM. It's more like Kavanaugh from what we know about him.


So was it DK slagging off Summer after the family vanished as I thought it was Chase?

The only person who has shown any inkling or hatred towards the family is Chase.

IMO
 
  • #597
I see. Maybe you could offer more insight: Why did he choose February 4th to commit the crime?

I think his stolen/fraudulent checks were about to be discovered by Joey. One was cashed on the 2nd---so the 4th is quite possibly the day Chase would expect it to be showing up on Joey's bank records. If joey noticed that his account had thousands less than he thought, he was going to investigate.

Chase had a long criminal history and had been in and out of jail just recently. If Joey got mad enough to report it as embezzlement by an employee, it could get serious.

Also, Chase was flat broke and his account was often over drawn, and his rent was over due. He just wanted to get on with it and start cashing checks while he could. JMO
 
  • #598
I think his stolen/fraudulent checks were about to be discovered by Joey. One was cashed on the 2nd---so the 4th is quite possibly the day Chase would expect it to be showing up on Joey's bank records. If joey noticed that his account had thousands less than he thought, he was going to investigate.

Chase had a long criminal history and had been in and out of jail just recently. If Joey got mad enough to report it as embezzlement by an employee, it could get serious.

Also, Chase was flat broke and his account was often over drawn, and his rent was over due. He just wanted to get on with it and start cashing checks while he could. JMO

IIRC, And 1st Feb 2010 Email informed CM he owes JM $42,845.
 
  • #599
There was extreme hatred and rage. So far nothing shows Chase had (reason for) that kind of hatred and rage toward JM. It's more like Kavanaugh from what we know about him.

I disagree. I think CM had a lot of built up resentment and jealousy towards Joey and Summer. He even said snarky things about the boys. In one interview he mentions that Summer 'didn't believe in corporal punishment.' :eek:

Why would a 2 and 4 yr old require any form of corporal punishment?




Joey was renovating a beautiful new home that he just bought for his family. Joey had plenty of money in the bank, a bright future with millions in upcoming fountain contracts about to roll in. And many people loved and respected him.

Chase was in the exact opposite position. He was living a nightmare. He owed thousands in tax liens, law suits, gambling debts and overdue bills---his rent was past due, he lost his checking account because of all the overdrawn checks, he had no credit, his health was failing, and just when all these huge contracts were about to pay off, Joey began farming out the work to another company.

He had young children, like Joey did, but the mother of his young children did not even give them Chase's last name. They depended upon him but he constantly let them down, by getting arrested, or gambling away his payroll checks etc. Their life was erratic and chaotic compared the Joey's kids.

Joey was 'his best friend' and 'his business partner' ---but that was only in Chase's warped mind. Joey treated him very well and enabled him, but they were not 'equals.' And Chase knew that.

I think the stress and resentment built up ---gambling addicts live a holy hell---scrambling to feed their ugly greed and lying and cheating and stealing from friends, foes and strangers. I think it all came to a head because Joey had finally had enough. :eek:

JMO




ETA:
This bit of testimony, from an officer conducting that Feb.17 interview of Merritt:
Q In fact, didn’t he say there on the 17th that Joseph was

one of his best friends?

A Yes.

Q Didn’t he say that Joseph definitely loved Summer?

A Yes.

Q And didn’t he say she was a verbal person — was a verbal

person?

A Yes.

Q And she didn’t believe in corporal punishment?

A Yes.
 
  • #600
I was just listening to some of the audio that I had missed and got to the point where Det. Smith is discussing the recordings from the jail. One thing I was wondering if somebody here could answer is; who is Michelle? Is she his new girlfriend? Sorry if this information is widely known, I had only heard of his ex, Cathy. Thanks in advance :)
 
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