CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2

[Funky funky]

Thank you Funky, I'm not familiar with Jerrie Deane is she the person that had a crime blog?

Yes, Missing Persons of America blog.

 

[Tortoise]

It appeared to me to be about the size of a nickel or quarter. Certainly not a slipknot type knot that would strangle but more to restrain.

Are you speaking about the knot at the back or the loop that would have been around his neck?

 

[Force Ten]

Are you speaking about the knot at the back or the loop that would have been around his neck?

My impression is they are one in the same? Is there another?

Now, upon relooking at the photo I have of the knot, I can't tell if it is around his neck or some other portion of his remains.

 

[Tortoise]

My impression is they are one in the same? Is there another?

Now, upon relooking at the photo I have of the knot, I can't tell if it is around his neck or some other portion of his remains.

But that would have been too small to have been around his neck originally, which is why I am interested in whether they have ever stated anything about how big the neck loop was. I suppose there's no way of knowing the size of his neck, unless someone knew his shirt collar measurements.

 

[mrjitty]

A
Metro Sheet Metal - I think I need to hear from Carmen, the secretary, to fully understand what was owed to MSM and by whom. David Sequieda in his testimony made it pretty clear that the invoices were supposed to be paid by Joey, they would never have done business with Chase, so I don't understand how Chase would owe them money.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that the Sequieda's ended up having to actually ship out some fountains, and because that was not part of their "job", they wanted to be paid for it. If Joey paid Chase in advance for certain jobs, then yes, I can see Joey saying it was Chase's responsibility, but ultimately, it was between Joey and Chase. If this is the case, the prosecution should have made this clear. We have more information available to us and personally, I am left with questions after that testimony.

i think you are approaching MSM the the wrong way round

We are trying to find mens rea for murder. Which means we need to look for facts which might create a motive

Joey, in his own words in an email, states that he was paying an all inclusive amount to chase, to include the MSM supplier costs. CM then failed to do pay MSM, so Joey had to cover it. This course of dealing apparently went on for some time. So it doesn't matter who MSM relied on to pay them. It matters that Joey said that Chase was supposed to pay them.

As you say this was in fact between Joey & Chase. It builds a picture, one month before the murders, of Chase ripping Joey off. I am sure the prosecution will argue that this then escalated to outright theft, and it is that escalation that inspired the murders.

But the prosecution is not able to interpret this for us until closing statements.

 

[mrjitty]

I agree but I think he has shown himself to be a risk taker - calling QuickBooks and pretending to be Joey after Joey disappeared, as well as printing off and deleting checks that could be linked to him because he cashed one of them at his own bank. That's like leaving a note at the house saying I was here, imo.

Exactly

He took huge risks and got away with it for 4 years because he was lucky.

But that does not mean he was clever about this. Indeed the Quickbooks scam was very stupid.

 

[mrjitty]

I think he's only been called to prove that a bad relationship over money was potentially developing between Joey and Merritt building up to the murders, which they are witness to, not to prove that Merritt was actually misappropriating money Joey gave him to buy materials - that can't be proved because Joey isn't able to testify to what financial arrangement he had with Merritt. moo.

I agree broadly, but the email is in fact strong evidence of what Joey believed the relationship to be.

As I understand it, CM also used Joey's inventory for CM's own private projects. So basically these supplier scams were one way he ripped Joey off.

 

[mrjitty]

TY

I was intrigued to know as I always come back to why Joey continued to hire him when he had obviously had quite a few issues over a period of time. So it makes a-little more sense that Chase was a great welder so Joey could justify some of Chase behaviour probably in his head due to how good he was.

I can only guess that JMs business was so high margin that he could sustain CMs scams and still be winning.

Probably once he worked out CM was stiffing the suppliers, he just factored it in to the projects

 

[missy1974]

i think you are approaching MSM the the wrong way round

We are trying to find mens rea for murder. Which means we need to look for facts which might create a motive

Joey, in his own words in an email, states that he was paying an all inclusive amount to chase, to include the MSM supplier costs. CM then failed to do pay MSM, so Joey had to cover it. This course of dealing apparently went on for some time. So it doesn't matter who MSM relied on to pay them. It matters that Joey said that Chase was supposed to pay them.

As you say this was in fact between Joey & Chase. It builds a picture, one month before the murders, of Chase ripping Joey off. I am sure the prosecution will argue that this then escalated to outright theft, and it is that escalation that inspired the murders.

But the prosecution is not able to interpret this for us until closing statements.

Again, the more I'm thinking about this the more I think that what happened was that MSM ended up shipping a fountain or fountains out... and they wanted to be paid for that, from Joey. Joey probably paid CM already to do that, basically paying him in advance, so I think we will see this is where Joey "overpaid" CM or CM owed him money. Sequieda said something like they left it up to Joey on how to deal with Chase as far as percentage or whatever after they started doing some of what CM should have been doing.

I really hope they tie this all together quickly though, that testimony on Thursday did nothing but leave the impression that Joey and only Joey was responsible for paying MSM and that they would never have done business with CM, so how could he have owed them money. JMO

 

[missy1974]

I agree broadly, but the email is in fact strong evidence of what Joey believed the relationship to be.

As I understand it, CM also used Joey's inventory for CM's own private projects. So basically these supplier scams were one way he ripped Joey off.

I hope we actually get to see the email for ourselves, and not LE's interpretation of it ;-)

 

[katydid23]

You know what I can never understand? Okay, say this is about money and greed, why kill the kids and wife? Wiping out an entire family takes the motive to a whole new level for me.

He had to kill summer because she'd know---she was too much of a witness. And the kids probably saw him attack mommy, so he probably rationalized that they'd be better off if they didn't have to live as orphans. He had to tell himself something like that to be able so sleep at night. JMO

 

[Tssiemer]

He had to kill summer because she'd know---she was too much of a witness. And the kids probably saw him attack mommy, so he probably rationalized that they'd be better off if they didn't have to live as orphans. He had to tell himself something like that to be able so sleep at night. JMO

He’s not rational. He didn’t need to rationalize.

We are rational people, we need a reason.

 

[asyousay]

He had to kill summer because she'd know---she was too much of a witness. And the kids probably saw him attack mommy, so he probably rationalized that they'd be better off if they didn't have to live as orphans. He had to tell himself something like that to be able so sleep at night. JMO

He killed the entire family I think because he hated them. He liked Joey I think as much as he was capable of liking anybody but once Joey grew a back bone and said enough was enough and he was going to end up with no part of the Multi Million pound deals coming up he snapped.

When he is trying to play nice when interviewed about the kids he has to keep stopping and starting to be “tactful” when you can tell he thinks they was out of control and Summer let them run riot. I am sure he felt they had no respect due to Summer’s free range parenting and we all know how fond of Summer he was.

I think that’s why he picked such a tool to kill them and why it’s such over kill on the children as he has so much rage and hostility built up.


Can you imagine him having dinner over at Joey’s house and him having to play nice to Summer and do what she told him to do and the kids running riot and then add in the dogs as well?! I am betting he loved that.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

- 14 - PROSECUTOR'S OPENING SPEECH

Thanks for the transcript. Will you post the Defense opening statements as well? (or have you already posted?)

 

[missy1974]

Thanks for the transcript. Will you post the Defense opening statements as well? (or have you already posted?)

here is a link to a thread with the Prosecution OS. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/opening-statements.413276/

I was hoping to get some time to do the Defense OS, but haven't yet lol I will see what I can do though. I think they give us a good idea of what we can "expect" to hear. I wish we could just get transcripts, I'm not sure if they are made public or not, and if they would cost. At least we do have video's to go back to.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He had to kill summer because she'd know---she was too much of a witness. And the kids probably saw him attack mommy, so he probably rationalized that they'd be better off if they didn't have to live as orphans. He had to tell himself something like that to be able so sleep at night. JMO

You are way too kind sweet Katy.

He killed them all and didn't lose any sleep over it either.

In fact he probably was so proud of himself how he destroyed each one ...one by one.. until there were none....just like he had planned.

Imo

 

[la2cabo]

Is Patrick McStay Joseph's stepfather? Is so, is his biological father still alive?

Is Patrick McStay Joseph's stepfather? Is so, is his biological father still alive?

Is Patrick McStay Joseph's stepfather? Is so, is his biological father still alive?

Patrick McStay is both Joey and Mikey's legal father. The question is irrelevant, imo.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

here is a link to a thread with the Prosecution OS. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/opening-statements.413276/

I was hoping to get some time to do the Defense OS, but haven't yet lol I will see what I can do though. I think they give us a good idea of what we can "expect" to hear. I wish we could just get transcripts, I'm not sure if they are made public or not, and if they would cost. At least we do have video's to go back to.

Thanks. How did you get the prosecutor's transcript?

 

[MsFacetious]

Thanks. How did you get the prosecutor's transcript?

She transcribed it herself. I've had to transcribe hearings and it is very arduous. I would not have the patience to do opening statements!

 

[Deleted member 192280]

She transcribed it herself. I've had to transcribe hearings and it is very arduous. I would not have the patience to do opening statements!

Oh wow! That's a lot of work! Thanks!