CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[missy1974]

And clothing items and blanket to be covered in blood for that matter

I wonder if decomposition makes that harder to determine? I mean, we know they were decomposed, any fabric that was close to the body would be full of DNA, wouldn't it? I am not googling this ... I will wait for the experts!

 

[missy1974]

I think their argument is going to be that one surprise blow to back of head to incapacitate and move them into an easy cleanup area, remaining blows to finish the job. Interesting both Joey and summer had a large hole on back left of skull, and Joey right earlobe. Both are consistent with someone being left handed. The impacts from behind would favor the left side of the head, in front potentially the right.

I really wish that the State didn't insist that it happened in the home. I find it hard to believe that they were killed anywhere there is carpet, anywhere near walls, all of the clothes, and really, how do you avoid ALL of those things? The prosecution witness, the ME, seems to agree that there would be blood, so IMO there is no doubt that there should have been some blood. I'm sure the defense will go even further with their own witnesses and will have it described as huge pools of blood lol Add to that, the house was not 'clean', there was dust, there were footprints on the floor, and clothes everywhere.

I was taking note of the left/right hand thing too ehenson, I am not sure we can tell much from it because there is no way to know if he was in front or behind them. JMO

 

[missy1974]

I just don’t think they were killed at the home. I think they were subdued and abducted there. I think if chase had a weapon to either of the boys or summer Joey would do anything chase wanted. And vice versa if the weapon was on Joey. Why would Chase all the stuff he did from the house and bury it? I think Gianni brought his back pack with him when Chase took them. Then he had to get rid of the evidence from his house/truck/storage unit.

I don’t have an answer.

Could the skulls have broken up more upon decomp?

I *think* part of the problem is that Chase couldn't be at the house writing a cheque from the computer AND taking them out of the house to kill them. He also couldn't be meeting them somewhere AND at the home on the computer.

 

[Reachingfornettles]

I really wish that the State didn't insist that it happened in the home. I find it hard to believe that they were killed anywhere there is carpet, anywhere near walls, all of the clothes, and really, how do you avoid ALL of those things? The prosecution witness, the ME, seems to agree that there would be blood, so IMO there is no doubt that there should have been some blood. I'm sure the defense will go even further with their own witnesses and will have it described as huge pools of blood lol Add to that, the house was not 'clean', there was dust, there were footprints on the floor, and clothes everywhere.

I was taking note of the left/right hand thing too ehenson, I am not sure we can tell much from it because there is no way to know if he was in front or behind them. JMO

I'm thinking that there may have been plastic (now long disposed of) because of the painting in the house at the time. Easy clean up and transfer. JMO

 

[Reachingfornettles]

Ok. I had a head injury once that bled profusely. I had to go to the ER. The nurse there told me to use hydrogen peroxide to get the blood out of my clothes and carpet and it worked but I’m sure there’s still traces of it chemically. Could hydrogen peroxide hide blood That well?

I also had a terrible cut on my head and it was pouring. I think that like the forensic pathologist described if your dead it doesn't pour. I feel it was over kill. I have also bleached things with peroxide. It continues to bleach over time. JMO

 

[missy1974]

I'm thinking that there may have been plastic (now long disposed of) because of the painting in the house at the time. Easy clean up and transfer. JMO

Welcome to the McStay thread I can't recall at the moment, but I don't think McGyver said they were using plastic/tarps when painting. They were planning on replacing the main floor flooring anyway. If they were using plastic or tarps, I think the prosecution would have been all over that.

 

[missy1974]

Video's from today's testimony:

 

[missy1974]

 

[mom2chloe]

Hydrogen Peroxide is the best cleaner for blood stains. Bleach would likely need to be used to remove DNA.
If it’s true that Summer’s shirt was not found in the gravesite, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that her shirt is missing yet her pants are soaked through the crotch and one leg with bleach staining. We know Joey was restrained and as has been mentioned before it really doesn’t matter where the murders occurred only that CM is the murderer.
Please forgive me for what I am about to suggest. If Summer were in a sitting position, maybe she was sexually assaulted but not by rape. If CM sodomized her, his semen most likely traveled to the areas where we see the bleach stains on her pants. A broken jaw would ensure she wouldn’t be able to bite him (as we already know she was a spitfire who would have fought back) or maybe was the result of a bite or an attempt. The fact that her shirt was not recovered leads me to believe it too may have been covered in seminal fluid and/or blood. The fact that Joey was the only one to be restrained and the fact that he suffered at least a broken rib and tibia indicated to me that one or both of them were tortured. I believe CM was seeking financial information and/or passwords through the course of the torture and murders. The boys were either used as pawns to acquire the info CM was seeking or were violently murdered because they were screaming and crying.
The defense is looking to cry rape to indicate someone else committed these four murders for non financial reasons. CM is a mysogynist who clearly hated Summer enough that he would be capable of inflicting whatever means he deemed necessary to acquire whatever information he wanted. Rape and sodomy are crimes of power. The overkill on the children leads me to further believe Joey and Summer were tortured and subjected to more heinous pain that we have imagined.
Again, my apologies for the darkness of my post.

 

[ehenson88]

I'm thinking that there may have been plastic (now long disposed of) because of the painting in the house at the time. Easy clean up and transfer. JMO

I'm sure there was blood, I just think he had plenty of time to clean most of it it up. Did anyone else notice the fuzzy cover on the toilet downstairs, it definitely looked like it had some kind of brown stain on it that could have been blood.

 

[Force Ten]

She said children's skulls are more "elastic" vs adults.

This protects the children from falls as children tend to do. All bones are this way. I imagine these children had several blows because they just wouldn't die so easily.

 

[Force Ten]

In regards to the rape... wasn't it in an investigator's notes that they thought it was possible she was raped? This isn't just something that the defense is making up, right?

Right, my impression is they explored it as a possibility, not a probability. The defense may be going for an angle of if she was raped, there wouldn't be enough time for him to murder the whole family AND rape.

I'm on the fence now about if she was raped or not. I have a new theory about the pants. I'm thinking it through before I post about it though.

 

[missy1974]

I'm sure there was blood, I just think he had plenty of time to clean most of it it up. Did anyone else notice the fuzzy cover on the toilet downstairs, it definitely looked like it had some kind of brown stain on it that could have been blood.

My problem with this is that the house was not "clean". There wasn't one room that was sparkling clean and all the others not, they were all not clean. IIRC it was Joey's mom and Summer's mom that cleaned the majority of the house, washed the clothes, etc. I would think, as mothers they would be hyper-aware of anything they came across that might be suspected as blood or anything out of the ordinary. JMO For those that think it may have happened in the master bedroom closet... I think it was Susan that said she had her wedding dress hanging in there, and DuGal noted a fur coat or coats. No blood? not one speck? I bet the family still has those now. Again, JMO.

 

[missy1974]

Right, my impression is they explored it as a possibility, not a probability. The defense may be going for an angle of if she was raped, there wouldn't be enough time for him to murder the whole family AND rape.

I'm on the fence now about if she was raped or not. I have a new theory about the pants. I'm thinking it through before I post about it though.

I was just pointing out that it wasn't something the defense came up with and is making stuff up lol

They could also be throwing it out there that she was raped since the house didn't show any sign's of a crime at all, murder or rape?

But then, I think, according to their OS's, they are going with Summer and the kids were taken to the desert and killed there, and she was raped there. So I really don't know what they are going for....

 

[Force Ten]

I was just pointing out that it wasn't something the defense came up with and is making stuff up lol

They could also be throwing it out there that she was raped since the house didn't show any sign's of a crime at all, murder or rape?

But then, I think, according to their OS's, they are going with Summer and the kids were taken to the desert and killed there, and she was raped there. So I really don't know what they are going for....

It would be difficult for one person get all four easily out of the home and expedited to the desert. The defense asserts that "Teams" did this. But even if the jury believes this scenario, can they effectively convince them that Chase didn't start thieving starting on the 5th? It doubt it. I'm certain the jury will see through the guise the defense is selling.

 

[KALI]

We are early into this trial.
We do not know yet, what San Bernardino LE found.
I will wait to hear.

UGH DOUBLE CRAP!!!

This is huge!

Juries like to see blood and dna evidence!!

CRAAAAAP!!!

 

[ThorJanus]

Sooo, my take from today's prosecution is that there really wasn't that much blood to get rid of? Hey I am just a retired telephone installer and have no idea what kind of scene there would be, with 4 skulls bashed to pieces. I am sorry to be so graphic but I have just finished day 12 trial evidence and I feel sick at my stomach and outraged. I will pray for this family everyday for the rest of my life.

 

[Force Ten]

I'm only twenty minutes into the first witness today and cussing to myself a dozen times.

 

[missy1974]

I'm only twenty minutes into the first witness today and cussing to myself a dozen times.

Report back after the 2nd witness lol

 

[tmar]

Because he hated them, I think it could be as simple as that.

Dealing with Summer and her out of control children ( he didn’t agree with her free range parenting) for years must of made his blood boil while he had to play nice to Joey.


ETA - the complete over kill shows how much rage he had built up.

CM listening to this, realizing everyone knows how the McStays were murdered, must have him squirming in his seat as evidence is produced.