CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

[Force Ten]

And then at 1:30 P.M., has contact with the cell tower in the Oro Grande area, again from a direction pointing to the south in that case.

I see what you are saying, I think it means that the cell phone was south of the tower? I am not sure if they were using exhibit's which may have helped understand better.

Here's an overhead of the area. I believe they placed the phone southeast of the tower, which is where the graves were.

 

[cobalt sky]

Thanks for asking... Well, a few days ago I said I wished there was a poll feature here, I asked, do you think CM is guilty, if so do you think he did it alone, etc. A few replied. And there seemed to be a consensus that he's guilty. That was disappointing to me. Because when everyone agrees, then there is not much to discuss and argue about, especially in this case when it's all circumstantial, so when all or most people believe he's guilty without enough evidence, then the discussion becomes "let's see how we can interpret the evidence to support our belief that he's guilty". I think I read posts that said how he put his hand under his chin when the photos of the remains were shown, what does that mean, as if that somehow showed he's guilty (I am by no means being personal, but I'm talking about the way people make their judgement about guilty or not). For the sake of argument: so what if he didn't put his hand under his chin? What if he put his hand on top of his head? Or put his right hand over his left hand? Or put his left hand over his right hand? Was that what he would do when he's nervous or remembering something disturbing? Same about picture of him in the desert hole. Honestly I see nothing unusual or guilt-suggestive in these. There are probably more guilty-suggestive pictures of other folks that we haven't seen, but we are given this one suspect CM, so let's analyze every facial muscle and every picture of him to find signs that suit our belief that he's guilty. Seriously? If you do that, you can probably find most of ourselves guilty given a few more "circumstantial evidence" to put us on the defendant seat.

Please don't take this personal in any way - fact is, I haven't read most of the posts here, and don't remember who posted what.

You bring up very good points! I had to smile at the last half of your post...just earlier today I think, a few people again commented on Chase's demeanor when he was arrested. The gist of it was that Chase was not standing up straight in a defiant manner, staring the cameras down. Which of course means he's guilty. I thought to myself, and if he HAD shown that demeanor, people here would be like "can you believe that arrogant sonofabitch! If he was innocent he would be slumping over and hanging his head down in shame of being unjustly arrested!!!" LOL!

As for his guilt or innocence, I change my mind all the time. Currently, I think he definitely knew that something had gone down with the family. From what I've seen so far, he is guilty of stealing through Joey's checks. I am not yet convinced that he murdered the family, and if he did, right now I am not convinced he did it alone. I'm waiting on more evidence. As I have said before, DK was my #1 suspect from early on so I want more info about how well he was investigated and cleared. I know that really ticks some people off but oh well, too bad. I question everything after having watched a documentary on the murders of Wayne and Sharmon Stock, a horror of a case where two men almost ended up convicted of the murders even though they were innocent, it's a fascinating case and the Dateline episode on it is excellent. I'm not saying that what happened in the Stock murders happened with this case, I'm saying that because of cases like that I questions everything and no I don't take LE's word for anything, I want solid evidence.

 

[Force Ten]

I believe Force-Ten (sp?) once said that a "William" also went missing in the general area of the gravesites and LE ended up locating his 4x4, but not him. Maybe the ad was referencing that case? Just a guess here.

Bill Dwayne Wheeler. Not connected to the Craigslist ad though. All the news articles regarding his disappearance are now defunct. He was last seen visiting his ex-wife and her new husband in Las Vegas to get his commercial espresso machine from them. His truck and the machine was found burned out in an area about a mile from the graves site. Sort of a seedy guy but sad nonetheless.

Bill Dwayne Wheeler Sr. – The Charley Project

 

[thelmadawg]

I think the trooper was at the McStay residence until it was dumped. It was the last step of the staging, after he had time to think about it, and critically, after he already got away with the murder for a few days.

Remember CM had no way to know that the McStays would not be missed immediately.

I remember that there was some sort of public transport very close to the Fallbrook home. They actually passed it in one of the home videos. I don't if it was Amtrak, light rail or bus, but it had a large parking lot that I am assuming was for folks who commuted. Could have come into play?

 

[Plumeria5]

Back to the Trooper. What was the position of the driver's seat and was CM's DNA on the lever to adjust it?

 

[QueenBofOB]

It would be just as easy for CM to have CJ follow him in his truck to the border and leave his truck in an overnight parking lot and have her drive him back home (with whatever story about why he was doing such). Then the next day he drives the trooper down and dumps it, walks over to the lot where his truck is and drives back home.

CJ covered for him on the night of the 4th (before changing her story) and also when CM called during his interview when he, after all the minute details he gave them about every little thing yet couldn't remember what he did for an entire day just 2 weeks later.

Yes, she's already been caught lying to LE and giving him an alibi. I wonder if that will be presented to the jury, at some point. Probably not. However, *I* think it's relevant.

 

[cobalt sky]

Here is a question... if he shut off his phone on the 4th to go to kill them, and he shut it off on the 8th to take the Trooper down to the border, why wouldn't he have shut it off on the 6th when he buried them? Just forgot?

Good question, I've been wondering the same thing.

Because he thought he had gotten away with it and they would never be discovered, IMO.

But he hadn't gotten away with it yet. He buried the bodies on the 6th, he still may have had cleanup and also needed to stage the Trooper at the border. Anything could have happened between the time he buried the bodies on the 6th and the time he parked the Trooper at the border on the 8th. So that doesn't make sense to me.

If it is proven that he did indeed turn his phone off on the 4th to kill them, and again on the 8th to take Trooper to border, but then inexplicably left his phone on while burying the bodies (???!!!), I just can't understand why he would have done that, UNLESS he was working with an accomplice on the 6th and didn't have a choice but to have his phone on in case they needed to communicate. Otherwise it makes zero sense.

 

[missy1974]

As for his guilt or innocence, I change my mind all the time. Currently, I think he definitely knew that something had gone down with the family. From what I've seen so far, he is guilty of stealing through Joey's checks. I am not yet convinced that he murdered the family, and if he did, right now I am not convinced he did it alone. I'm waiting on more evidence. As I have said before, DK was my #1 suspect from early on so I want more info about how well he was investigated and cleared. I know that really ticks some people off but oh well, too bad. I question everything after having watched a documentary on the murders of Wayne and Sharmon Stock, a horror of a case where two men almost ended up convicted of the murders even though they were innocent, it's a fascinating case and the Dateline episode on it is excellent. I'm not saying that what happened in the Stock murders happened with this case, I'm saying that because of cases like that I questions everything and no I don't take LE's word for anything, I want solid evidence.

RSBM

I just looked up the Stock's! The names sounded familiar... John Ferak wrote a book about it. I have researched and followed the MaM/Avery saga the last few years, he was a local reporter and started asking the hard questions, he since moved from the area, but wrote a book about Avery as well.

BBM in your post... THIS THIS THIS! My mindset has definitely changed over the years in regards to LE and the justice system. Part of that is maybe social media? maybe documentaries in recent years? I have actually advised my children (who are technically all "adults" pffft lol ) that if they are ever in a situation that they need to be talking to LE even if 100% innocent and if they don't think they are in trouble, to never ever talk to them without a lawyer, give them your name and that's it, ask for a lawyer. I watched some of the Confession Tapes as well on Netflix... scary stuff!

There is a reason I am somewhat withholding judgement until I "see" the evidence.

 

[missy1974]

Bill Dwayne Wheeler. Not connected to the Craigslist ad though. All the news articles regarding his disappearance are now defunct. He was last seen visiting his ex-wife and her new husband in Las Vegas to get his commercial espresso machine from them. His truck and the machine was found burned out in an area about a mile from the graves site. Sort of a seedy guy but sad nonetheless.

Bill Dwayne Wheeler Sr. – The Charley Project

Reading that link, I wonder if LE thinks he is voluntarily missing? You are right though, sad.

 

[missy1974]

Back to the Trooper. What was the position of the driver's seat and was CM's DNA on the lever to adjust it?

hmmm good questions! I don't know about the seat. I posted the screenshots of the swabs they took and I don't recall the lever being listed in any of them. Also, IIRC, the Trooper was given to Joey's oldest son at some point so I don't believe it's still in evidence.

 

[missy1974]

Yes, she's already been caught lying to LE and giving him an alibi. I wonder if that will be presented to the jury, at some point. Probably not. However, *I* think it's relevant.

I would hope if she knows or knew anything that she would say it. I know some people will cover for others, but really, what does she have to gain from lying at this point?

In regards to her lying about that phone call that night, I sure hope there isn't a call within a few days beforehand showing Joey calling and Chase not answering. 2 + weeks after the fact, would she have really recalled that exact night? If I asked you right now what you were doing on the 17th of January, could you tell me?

 

[Force Ten]

Reading that link, I wonder if LE thinks he is voluntarily missing? You are right though, sad.

I doubt it. He came down from Seattle to get the machine to take it back to Seattle. To then just disappear voluntarily would be uncharacteristic.

 

[QueenBofOB]

I would hope if she knows or knew anything that she would say it. I know some people will cover for others, but really, what does she have to gain from lying at this point?

In regards to her lying about that phone call that night, I sure hope there isn't a call within a few days beforehand showing Joey calling and Chase not answering. 2 + weeks after the fact, would she have really recalled that exact night? If I asked you right now what you were doing on the 17th of January, could you tell me?

I meant to write a reply, but changed my mind. Well, I would've been sitting here, being obsessed about this case--but then trying to get it out of my mind, as it's been so horrific. I recall reading that CM instructed her to lie for him, as he supposedly was in the restroom.

 

[Force Ten]

I would hope if she knows or knew anything that she would say it. I know some people will cover for others, but really, what does she have to gain from lying at this point?

In regards to her lying about that phone call that night, I sure hope there isn't a call within a few days beforehand showing Joey calling and Chase not answering. 2 + weeks after the fact, would she have really recalled that exact night? If I asked you right now what you were doing on the 17th of January, could you tell me?

This has been a sticking point for me. I don't know if she was lying or misplaced the date. But thinking back, if it were me and this guy and his family goes missing - whom she knew - I think I would be reviewing and re-thinking everything about those days even before police questioned me. She had to suspect something IMO.

 

[thelmadawg]

Pomona is WEST of Rancho Cucamonga, but not that far from it either. Both cities are basically on the 'other' side of the mountains from Victorville. They are about a 30-40 minute drive to the gravesites, IMO.

At the time of the murders, he was listed as living at 11880 Manzana Drive, Apple Valley 92308. If so, there were several outbuildings, and it was very private. It was also fairly close to the gravesites.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

The gist of it was that Chase was not standing up straight in a defiant manner, staring the cameras down. Which of course means he's guilty. I thought to myself, and if he HAD shown that demeanor, people here would be like "can you believe that arrogant sonofabitch! If he was innocent he would be slumping over and hanging his head down in shame of being unjustly arrested!!!" LOL!

Thank you. Exactly .

 

[missy1974]

This has been a sticking point for me. I don't know if she was lying or misplaced the date. But thinking back, if it were me and this guy and his family goes missing - whom she knew - I think I would be reviewing and re-thinking everything about those days even before police questioned me. She had to suspect something IMO.

Right, I would be too. But remember in the interview that they played of Chase, didn't he say that is exactly what he and Cathy did? and he had notes with him, and some thought that made him look shady ... I couldn't help but think and I believe I even said that I am a note taker, I would have been doing the same)

Here is a thought... so maybe somehow the family accessed his cell records before LE got them. 9 years later, I can't recall when we found out about the "last call", but I don't remember it being a long time. (remember Mike posting about the voicemail that sounded like restaurant noises in the background??? where the heck did that come from???). Is it possible that someone had already told Chase that he was the last person called from Joey's phone at 8:28 before he met with them on the 17th? Him and Cathy talk about it and he or she says well he must not have answered it if it happened? Some cell phone records can be accessed online, I know this from the Avery Case, this is exactly what they did when Teresa Halbach went missing, they accessed her records online and were able to see up to date usage.

ETA: does anyone recall during that interview if he knew before the interview or during the interview about the call on the evening of the 4th?

ETA: ok, I have scanned the youtube transcripts (which are not great), but I don't see anything about them even asking about that phone call in that interview, so I don't know on what date they asked him, and the longer away it is, the worse the memory is going to be. Interesting to note... they were asking Chase what he was doing on President's day, and saying the 8th ... since we just had this discussion earlier today, it stuck out to me... he called Cathy about it.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

Back to the Trooper. What was the position of the driver's seat and was CM's DNA on the lever to adjust it?

I believe somewhere in the testimonies a det. was asked about that and he said he didn't notice anything out of the norm, the seat had not been moved to fit a big guy like CM. So here is another point: if CM was so careful as to have moved the seat back to it's original position to cover up for himself, wouldn't he have done something to clean his DNA from the wheel? If he had cleaned the house so thoroughly, why didn't he clean the Trooper in the same way?

As for the lever, chances are no one thought of taking fingerprint or DNA from it.

 

[scandinavian girl]

I was catching up reading first thing early this morning and had a thought: Disposal of bodies psychology, I will try to search later. Do killers dispose of bodies in a way that is close to their personality, Chase digging holes in deserts to find gold.

 

[travelbug]

The DNA in the Trooper...I was going to comment about this yesterday...

McGee in his OS had a pretty good explanation of it and I'm sure we will see it at some time in the trial. If it's transfer DNA....

He shakes Merritt's hand with his right hand... he then goes to the truck... which hand does he open the door with? Which hand do you open the door with? Personally, on the drivers door, I open the door with my left hand (my daughter says she uses her right ... I'm going to watch her sometime and see haha) He gets in the driver seat, touches the gear shift, touches the steering wheel, might touch the other control's when he first gets in. IIRC he was a minor contributor on the steering wheel and trace on the gear shift and controls (they couldn't tell which exactly because it was a collective swab, not separate swabs taken).

So I'm curious to everyone.... which hand do you open the drivers door with?

I use my right hand for the passenger door, but my left for the drivers door lol


ETA: my son just came home, I asked him... he uses his left hand. My husband isn't sure and he refuses to go outside and report back to me because it's minus stupid here LOL

I open the driver side door with my left hand and the passenger side door with my left.

I have followed this case from day 1, it brought me to Websleuths. My career and personal way of decision making is analytical. This is the only case where I have encountered intimidation when stating my opinion. I stopped participating (along with a few of the other long time posters) when we were harassed for holding differing opinions. I came back because I want to hear and see all of the evidence in order to determine guilt. I refuse to pronounce CM guilty, partially guilty or not guilty until I weigh the evidence for myself. There are definitely issues that trouble me. Some of them are not allowed to be discussed here because we are a family friendly website. The fact that JM's brother took the computers out of the home and had to be ordered to return them raises doubt regarding information on them that may have been compromised. I have similar concerns regarding the fact that family entered the home, prior to an official investigation, and cleaned up (including throwing out trash). I'm waiting to see the "proof" that DK was in Hawaii on the specific date of the murder(s). I'm also interested in finding out more about exactly how angry the sheet metal company was regarding EIP.

I'm willing to believe that CM is guilty IF IT CAN BE PROVEN. I am also willing to believe that he was an accomplice, a conspirator, or none-of-the-above. We are talking about first degree murder. I refuse to be swayed by the fact that he is a known con man, thief, gambler, etc. because if he is wrongfully blamed and sentenced then any other person that may have been involved in this heinous crime will be out on the streets to continue their life of crime.