CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

[missy1974]

See, I'm a sucker for reading blog sites, instead of actual facts. I'll try to stick to testimony from now on. Where in the world did they get his phone was off for 20 hours? lol

Five hours is enough time to drive to the gravesite, bury them and return home, IMO.

ok, hang tough.. that is the 5th, the Friday. The burial was on the 6th. But I guess he could have gone on the 5th to dig, right?

ETA: the 6th was when his phone connected to the towers by Victorville.

 

[missy1974]

Here is a question... if he shut off his phone on the 4th to go to kill them, and he shut it off on the 8th to take the Trooper down to the border, why wouldn't he have shut it off on the 6th when he buried them? Just forgot?

 

[Force Ten]

The Trooper wasn't at the house, @geevee screengrabs essentially proved that.

 

[missy1974]

bbm Google says President's Day was Mon 15th.

hmmm wasn't it Mike that said he would wait, maybe they took some extra days for a holiday because it was the long weekend? Interesting lol

Anyone else have the problem of missing posts when they are replying to others? the last few days I have to refresh and then go back or I miss a chunk of them. Weird. I have just gone back because I realized I missed some!

 

[Mountain Misst]

As a sleuth following this case for years to the point of obsession, what troubles me now is that Chase looks too damn healthy as a result of his current living conditions. I fret that the trial result will allow him to continue this lifestyle.
Fingers crossed for the DP and a transfer to San Quentin.

 

[Edmo]

I found it! LOL I was reading looking for the 7:30am on the 8th tower info (which is not there) but found this.. just remember that 'no activity' doesn't automatically mean it was off/in airplane mode/out of range.

Q From Saturday, February 6th at 3:14 P.M., until Sunday at
10:35 A.M., February 7th, is there any cell activity on the
defendant's cell phone, any tower activity, any activities?
A You said February 6th, from 3:14 P.M.?
Q Correct?
A That's his last call of the day on February 6th. His
first call of the day on February 7th is at 10:35 A.M.
Q So -- and there's no activity between that time period?
A No.
Q Almost 20 hours?
A I haven't done the math, but -- sure.

I thought the 6th was the day his phone had "pinged" off the cell tower in Victorville, placing him near the gravesites? Why would he turn it off for 20 hours?

 

[A lucas]

Here is a question... if he shut off his phone on the 4th to go to kill them, and he shut it off on the 8th to take the Trooper down to the border, why wouldn't he have shut it off on the 6th when he buried them? Just forgot?

I think it’s because he never expected the bodies to be found there..,

 

[Edmo]

As a sleuth following this case for years to the point of obsession, what troubles me now is that Chase looks too damn healthy as a result of his current living conditions. I fret that the trial result will allow him to continue this lifestyle.
Fingers crossed for the DP and a transfer to San Quentin.

I believe we will either see a Guilty verdict, or a hung jury. Imagine if they decide a hung jury? This case will take years if that happens, IMO

 

[missy1974]

I thought the 6th was the day his phone had "pinged" off the cell tower in Victorville, placing him near the gravesites? Why would he turn it off for 20 hours?

Like I said, we really need to be careful with the "turning off" and "no activity". There is a difference.

Again from preliminary hearing:

Q Turning your attention to February 6th, 2010, Saturday,
what did your analysis reveal on that day?
A The first phone activity is at 10:46 A.M. It contacts a
tower in the Victorville area near Interstate 15.
The next activity is at 11:30 A.M., and continuing
through 11:52 A.M, contacts the cell tower in the Oro Grande
area just north of Victorville in the High Desert, near
Interstate 15.
11:53 A.M., contacts a cell tower a little bit to the
south, back up near Victorville.
THE COURT: What time was that?
THE WITNESS: 11:53.
And 12:49 P.M., contacts a cell tower in the Victorville
area.
And then at 1:30 P.M., has contact with the cell tower in
the Oro Grande area, again from a direction pointing to the
south in that case.

This is the only information that we have for now about towers and times. Since it's from a court hearing, it should be more reliable than most news stories or blogs haha

If you want to read it all together it can be found on this page:
State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Three - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

 

[Tortoise]

ok, hang tough.. that is the 5th, the Friday. The burial was on the 6th. But I guess he could have gone on the 5th to dig, right?

ETA: the 6th was when his phone connected to the towers by Victorville.

I think he made two trips to the graves.

I've been trying to work out why and I think it's possible he couldn't fit two adult bodies in the back of his truck. As Summer's body wasn't wrapped up I think it makes sense she was in some sort of container or case that would contain the spread of blood/fluids. A large container would be quite bulky and I think it's possible he couldn't fit Joey's wrapped up body in there at the same time, particularly if it was say in rigor mortis in a non-straight position.

So he figured he would have to dig two graves so that he wouldn't have to leave one grave open with the potential for discovery or animal activity, while he went back to collect the second adult body. With two graves it made sense to keep them as small as possible (less digging) and put one child in with each adult. So he split up the 'job' for want of a better word.

 

[missy1974]

The Trooper wasn't at the house, @geevee screengrabs essentially proved that.

From this post?
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks Ocean! I have a feeling my mind is going to change many times through this trial, and I when the jury goes to deliberate I really won't know which way they will go and I won't be surprised by either. We will see though

I should probably put a disclaimer on all my posts that I may or may not change my mind on just about everything in this case haha

I truly do understand. Just hang in there, and you will be fine. Just be true to yourself, and what you truly believe.

I also wanted to address the part of your prior post discussing the variables of why DNA can be transferred.

First, I do agree that it can happen.

However, every circumstantial evidence piece entered never stands alone. Therein is the big problem for the defense to completely overcome.

If this was the only CE piece the jury had to weigh in its totality, only on its own, then set it aside, the defense could probably convince the jury it was a mere transfer on the Trooper belonging to the victim that had been found murdered, and buried in the desert.

But as you already know each CE fact is weighed far differently since each, and all pieces of CE are compounded, and weighed together, and not put in separate boxes.

That is very reason the high court has long ruled CE is very powerful evidence. It's why CE cases are the least likely to be successfully appealed.

In direct evidence cases if its found the eye witness testimony was faulty, and inaccurate the entire house of cards fall.

However, because CE cases have so many facts linked together in total showing guilt, even if one or two or even more falls all the others multiple CE facts still remains very strong, intact, and cannot be easily overcome.

Each time another CE fact is entered it makes all of it heavier each time one is entered.

Will the jury believe all of these multiple CE facts, when they put them all together in total... are just all coincidences, and nothing more?

We have to just wait, and see to know the answer.

Imo

 

[Edmo]

Like I said, we really need to be careful with the "turning off" and "no activity". There is a difference.

Again from preliminary hearing:

Q Turning your attention to February 6th, 2010, Saturday,
what did your analysis reveal on that day?
A The first phone activity is at 10:46 A.M. It contacts a
tower in the Victorville area near Interstate 15.
The next activity is at 11:30 A.M., and continuing
through 11:52 A.M, contacts the cell tower in the Oro Grande
area just north of Victorville in the High Desert, near
Interstate 15.
11:53 A.M., contacts a cell tower a little bit to the
south, back up near Victorville.
THE COURT: What time was that?
THE WITNESS: 11:53.
And 12:49 P.M., contacts a cell tower in the Victorville
area.
And then at 1:30 P.M., has contact with the cell tower in
the Oro Grande area, again from a direction pointing to the
south in that case.

This is the only information that we have for now about towers and times. Since it's from a court hearing, it should be more reliable than most news stories or blogs haha

If you want to read it all together it can be found on this page:
State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Three - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

North of Victorville would be toward Las Vegas, South would be toward Phelan/Cajon Pass.

Like I said, we really need to be careful with the "turning off" and "no activity". There is a difference.

Again from preliminary hearing:

Q Turning your attention to February 6th, 2010, Saturday,
what did your analysis reveal on that day?
A The first phone activity is at 10:46 A.M. It contacts a
tower in the Victorville area near Interstate 15.
The next activity is at 11:30 A.M., and continuing
through 11:52 A.M, contacts the cell tower in the Oro Grande
area just north of Victorville in the High Desert, near
Interstate 15.
11:53 A.M., contacts a cell tower a little bit to the
south, back up near Victorville.
THE COURT: What time was that?
THE WITNESS: 11:53.
And 12:49 P.M., contacts a cell tower in the Victorville
area.
And then at 1:30 P.M., has contact with the cell tower in
the Oro Grande area, again from a direction pointing to the
south in that case.

This is the only information that we have for now about towers and times. Since it's from a court hearing, it should be more reliable than most news stories or blogs haha

If you want to read it all together it can be found on this page:
State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Three - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

At 11:30 -11:52 Oro Grande is described NORTH of Victorville. Then at 1:30 they say Oro Grande is SOUTH? I think there is a mis-representation stated here? Where is Oro Grande ACTUALLY situated on a map vs Victorville?

 

[missy1974]

I think he made two trips to the graves.

I've been trying to work out why and I think it's possible he couldn't fit two adult bodies in the back of his truck. As Summer's body wasn't wrapped up I think it makes sense she was in some sort of container or case that would contain the spread of blood/fluids. A large container would be quite bulky and I think it's possible he couldn't fit Joey's wrapped up body in there at the same time, particularly if it was say in rigor mortis in a non-straight position.

So he figured he would have to dig two graves so that he wouldn't have to leave one grave open with the potential for discovery or animal activity, while he went back to collect the second adult body. With two graves it made sense to keep them as small as possible (less digging) and put one child in with each adult. So he split up the 'job' for want of a better word.

That makes sense Tortoise. If we could figure out where he hid them for those few days, it would really help.

Slightly OT ... since the talk of bodies in a truck, people noticing, etc. Our driveway is right beside our neighbour's driveway. When I get into my truck, I can look over and see my neighbours and when I back out, I can see the back of his truck... this past week, he has had this white tarp in the back of his truck that I can just see the top of it, but it's not normally something I see in the back of his truck... I have resisted the urge to go and look, but I think of this case every time I see it!

 

[Mountain Misst]

Those graves were certainly shallow when we look closely at the images taken from the air. Doesn't take too much wash to expose some bones/skull.

 

[missy1974]

North of Victorville would be toward Las Vegas, South would be toward Phelan/Cajon Pass.


At 11:30 -11:52 Oro Grande is described NORTH of Victorville. Then at 1:30 they say Oro Grande is SOUTH? I think there is a mis-representation stated here? Where is Oro Grande ACTUALLY situated on a map vs Victorville?

And then at 1:30 P.M., has contact with the cell tower in the Oro Grande area, again from a direction pointing to the south in that case.

I see what you are saying, I think it means that the cell phone was south of the tower? I am not sure if they were using exhibit's which may have helped understand better.

 

[Edmo]

I truly do understand. Just hang in there, and you will be fine. Just be true to yourself, and what you truly believe.

I also wanted to address the part of your prior post discussing the variables of why DNA can be transferred.

First, I do agree that it can happen.

However, every circumstantial evidence piece entered never stands alone. Therein is the big problem for the defense to completely overcome.

If this was the only CE piece the jury had to weigh in its totality, only on its own, then set it aside, the defense could probably convince the jury it was a mere transfer on the Trooper belonging to the victim that had been found murdered, and buried in the desert.

But as you already know each CE fact is weighed far differently since each, and all pieces of CE are compounded, and weighed together, and not put in separate boxes.

That is very reason the high court has long ruled CE is very powerful evidence. It's why CE cases are the least likely to be successfully appealed.

In direct evidence cases if its found the eye witness testimony was faulty, and inaccurate the entire house of cards fall.

However, because CE cases have so many facts linked together in total showing guilt, even if one or two or even more falls all the others multiple CE facts still remains very strong, intact, and cannot be easily overcome.

Each time another CE fact is entered it makes all of it heavier each time one is entered.

Will the jury believe all of these multiple CE facts, when they put them all together in total... are just all coincidences, and nothing more?

We have to just wait, and see to know the answer.

Imo

Have you ever watched the show Cold Justice? Kelly Siegler (Retired Texas DA) investigates cold cases with Yolanda Clary (Real Las Vegas CSI), whom the show 'CSI' originated from, Kelly Siegler uses pencils as a metaphor about CE cases. One pencil, CE evidence, is not enough to convict (breaking the pencil demonstrates a weak case). However, if you have multiple pencils together, CE is MUCH harder to break. The more CE you have, the 'stronger' your case is. I have always loved that example regarding criminal cases with ONLY CE evidence.

 

[Edmo]

And then at 1:30 P.M., has contact with the cell tower in the Oro Grande area, again from a direction pointing to the south in that case.

I see what you are saying, I think it means that the cell phone was south of the tower? I am not sure if they were using exhibit's which may have helped understand better.

Oro Grande is actually N/W of Victorville.

 

[missy1974]

Oro Grande is actually N/W of Victorville.

yep, you made me google map it haha

I think when it says "from a direction pointing to the south" it means the cell phone was pointing south of the tower in Oro Grande.

The prosecution better have a spectacular exhibit to show all of these towers and where the phone supposedly was!

 

[Tortoise]

That makes sense Tortoise. If we could figure out where he hid them for those few days, it would really help.

Slightly OT ... since the talk of bodies in a truck, people noticing, etc. Our driveway is right beside our neighbour's driveway. When I get into my truck, I can look over and see my neighbours and when I back out, I can see the back of his truck... this past week, he has had this white tarp in the back of his truck that I can just see the top of it, but it's not normally something I see in the back of his truck... I have resisted the urge to go and look, but I think of this case every time I see it!

Where was the storage facility he had which Joe Sequeida said he didn't have space in his trailer to help him with, the one that contained columns or pillars and proforma fountains?