CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

[Tortoise]

How long does it take to get to San Ysidro?

From where?

Sorry I'm reading the posts in order and responding and I just saw you were already asked this and answered. Pls ignore.

 

[JMarsh]

Yes it sort of taints the jury. Even though he is charged with murder, he has yet to be proven "the killer".

Taints the jury how? He didn't accuse anyone of being the killer, did he? Why does the defense care?

 

[missy1974]

Friday, I read this post when you first wrote it, but since then I've been unable to get it out of my mind all day.

So I did some soul searching of my own. It reminded me of how I was duped one time into believing what had been tweeted throughout another trial.

The negative online comments made about the prosecutor's performance didn't help matters either. As embarrassing as it is to admit, I fell for it hook, line, and sinker already resigning myself into believing prematurely that justice would not be served for the victim.

I certainly couldn't use the excuse that I was just a novice about criminal trials since I had been closely following criminal trials for around 30 years at that time.

It was a new method at the time for trials that were done by tweets at the time. So I knew I had to adjust, and become familiar with methods that were different from what I had always known.

However, I did notice at the time that the courtroom tweeter seem to quote the points made by the defense the majority of time.

At the time I thought that was just normal, and because I wasn't familiar with tweeted trials back then.

Anyway, to say the least when the verdict came back in very quickly, and it was guilty, I was totally shocked but pleased of course.

Iirc, I was posting over on IS at the time. Most were highly upset thinking the tweeter had purposefully mislead everyone.

We later found out she was close friends with the defense, which later explained why the majority of tweets I had seen were of the defense.

I promised myself then I wouldn't ever be swayed by tweets or negative online comments, yet once again I seem to have fallen for it in this trial, and I feel so ashamed. I should have known better.

I don't know if you have listened/watched every bit of trial testimony done in real time without any editing.

I have not. I did try my best to endure it the first three days of testimony, but I found it impossible due to the style of these defense attorneys who waste so much time on long highly unnecessary cross examinations.

Since then I have relied solely on tweets, and summaries posted here.

At least for me I know I have made a mistake by doing so.

Therefore, I will keep the faith that this jury will do the right thing, and justice will be served for the McStay family and their love ones.

I will continue to believe this until I know otherwise which will be at the end of this case, and not a minute before.

I truly believe jurors are logical and reasonable minded people.

So I will end with this by quoting Rick Distaso again during his closing in Scott Peterson's death penalty murder trial for it absolutely applies to CMs murder case as well.

Imo, it will all come down to this in the end after all of the evidence has been entered against CM..

'How many coincidences are you willing to believe and still be able to call yourself reasonable people?'

Take care, and please keep the faith.

Ocean

I love that this trial is streamed online. I don't have to rely on anyone to tweet or post about it, I can see it for myself. I do absolutely love the posters here that have been able to help me clarify what was said, how it was said and their interpretation of what was said. @Tortoise has been a tremendous help and I appreciate her (I think it's her haha)! @Force Ten has been great with helping us remember where things came from originally and reminding us of things that have been false since the beginning! I also appreciate the posters like yourself @oceanblueeyes , that remind us all that he is most likely guilty when the defense has a good day and I'm waivering lol I appreciate all the different views and I appreciate that we have websleuths to discuss it

I have been able to watch most of the trial live without edit so far, partially due to the fact that they have ridiculous court hours and I am 2 hours ahead of California time. I am very happy that I don't have to rely on anyone else to form my own opinion.

Just a heads up about Cathy Russon who has been tweeting for L&C... so far anyway, from what I have read her post in chat, she does not think the prosecution is proving their case, and I think she even said that she is not sure that they have enough to prove him guilty. I have no idea what her background is, if she followed this case years ago, or is new to the case. But since she is the only one tweeting about it (that I know of), keep that in mind.

 

[Tortoise]

Because the cameraman decided to take off when Maline was giving his part of the defense's OS, I am unsure of what exactly he said with regard to the knife, but my understanding is that it was found in the grave. Is this not accurate? It is important, because was no mention of a knife involved in this crime up until the defense's OS.

No, no knife was found in the graves.

 

[Force Ten]

If his phone was out of tower range, wouldn't it have come up like Chases did? A VM but not connected to a tower? The 4 minute voicemail retrieval.... and then 2 minute retrieval... there is no way to know if he had saved messages that he was listening to IMO.

I wonder though... if he is on the phone, which he was a lot, if someone else calls him... would it have just been busy? or would it have gone to VM? and how would that show on the phone records hmmmm lol

Right now, I'm thinking that the house call might be wrong? Where did we get that info from?

The VM isssue is troubling. Dugal stated all the VM's up to the 15th were deleted. I'm almost positive a pin is required to access VM, so Joseph was at least alive to provide the pin to whoever deleted them.

The other theory about Chase leaving his phone behind, someone would have had to been there to answer it when Joseph called. So either he was still in RC or he was working in tandem with someone else.

Why was Chase making numerous calls to Cathy just before lunch?

 

[missy1974]

Carmen didn't know for sure if he took them in on the Monday or the Tuesday.

13.38 in video
P: Now at some point do you recall receiving a couple of cheques around the time the McStay family went missing, from the defendant?
CG: Yes.
P: (deals with identifying the cheques - skip ahead to 15.07) Now both of these cheques were written with a date of February 4th 2010, do you see that?
CG: Mhm.
P: Do you recall when you actually received these cheques?
CG: It would have been maybe Monday or Tuesday of the following week.
P: Because if you look at the calendar next to you February 4th...
CG: Was a Thursday.
P: Ok. So you believe that you received those cheques possibly on Friday 5th?
CG: No, no no it would be Monday.
P: Monday?
CG: Yes cos I don't, I don't recall seeing Chase on that Friday because that Monday is my question about our inability to get in touch with Joseph.
P: Ok so you believe that you received those cheques on the 8th?
CG: Monday or Tuesday.

I remember this now, prosecutor didn't want her to remember that was on the 8th LOL I don't think the cheques were done until later on the 8th. She seems to very distinctly remember Chase not being there on the 5th, the Friday. I would think she could relate those cheques to either the same day or a different day than when she talked to Chase about not being able to get a hold of him.

 

[JMarsh]

Carmen didn't know for sure if he took them in on the Monday or the Tuesday.

13.38 in video
P: Now at some point do you recall receiving a couple of cheques around the time the McStay family went missing, from the defendant?
CG: Yes.
P: (deals with identifying the cheques - skip ahead to 15.07) Now both of these cheques were written with a date of February 4th 2010, do you see that?
CG: Mhm.
P: Do you recall when you actually received these cheques?
CG: It would have been maybe Monday or Tuesday of the following week.
P: Because if you look at the calendar next to you February 4th...
CG: Was a Thursday.
P: Ok. So you believe that you received those cheques possibly on Friday 5th?
CG: No, no no it would be Monday.
P: Monday?
CG: Yes cos I don't, I don't recall seeing Chase on that Friday because that Monday is my question about our inability to get in touch with Joseph.
P: Ok so you believe that you received those cheques on the 8th?
CG: Monday or Tuesday.

What did she say when she was interviewed orginally? Does anyone know?

 

[Tortoise]

From Azusa or from Chase's home. The timeline outlined looks interesting, but I'm not sure how San Ysidro comes into it.

Is it thought Chase went to Azusa first thing in the morning? Or after he goes to San Ysidro.

San Ysidro is where the Trooper was dumped. That's why we are working out if he had time to get there and back while his phone wasn't hitting any towers for 6 hours.

His phone was on all Monday afternoon after 1.30/2.00 pm until after 6 pm near his home in Rancho, and he was printing a cheque and on an almost 2 hr call to QuickBooks, so no time to go to Azusa then.

Azusa or home to San Ysidro 130-140 miles

 

[JMarsh]

San Ysidro is where the Trooper was dumped. That's why we are working out if he had time to get there and back while his phone wasn't hitting any towers for 6 hours.

His phone was on all Monday afternoon after 1.30/2.00 pm until after 6 pm near his home in Rancho, and he was printing a cheque and on an almost 2 hr call to QuickBooks, so no time to go to Azusa then.

Azusa or home to San Ysidro 130-140 miles

Oh. So he didn't go there on Monday.

 

[missy1974]

From Azusa or from Chase's home. The timeline outlined looks interesting, but I'm not sure how San Ysidro comes into it.

Is it thought Chase went to Azusa first thing in the morning? Or after he goes to San Ysidro.

Well geesh, now I go to Google Maps and put in Azusa to San Ysidro, and it's giving me different routes/times LOL it's actually giving me traffic updates too haha I will get back to you if someone else doesn't do it first

San Ysidro is where the Trooper was found and towed from, the evening of the 8th.

 

[Tortoise]

Oh. So he didn't go there on Monday.

Sorry not following you, do you mean Azusa or the border?

He had time to do both in the time line I posted, if he went to Azusa normal work time in the morning. Carmen was unsure when she saw him.

 

[missy1974]

<modsnip quoted post removed>

Yes!!! I think there were others too that refused to believe it, even before the bodies were found, and were still steadfast after he was charged. I would come and read and have always thought he was guilty, assumed they had more than enough to convict. I am not going to lie though, I do feel right now that they don't have as much as I thought, but can't wait for the cell/financial information to tell the story to the jury

 

[Tortoise]

What did she say when she was interviewed orginally? Does anyone know?

I don't think anyone asked her because they'd have had her memory refreshed if it was in the interview notes.

 

[missy1974]

Taints the jury how? He didn't accuse anyone of being the killer, did he? Why does the defense care?

I think it was the way it came out... even here it was heard as it being a phone contact. Reading it and hearing it was different lol The jury was instructed to disregard in the end.

 

[JMarsh]

Sorry not following you, do you mean Azusa or the border?

He had time to do both in the time line I posted, if he went to Azusa normal work time in the morning. Carmen was unsure when she saw him.

So he went to see Carmen at 9? How long did it take him to get to San Ysidro from there?

 

[JMarsh]

I think it was the way it came out... even here it was heard as it being a phone contact. Reading it and hearing it was different lol The jury was instructed to disregard in the end.

Did he say the last person Joseph had contact with; or the last person the family had contact with?

 

[JMarsh]

Yes!!! I think there were others too that refused to believe it, even before the bodies were found, and were still steadfast after he was charged. I would come and read and have always thought he was guilty, assumed they had more than enough to convict. I am not going to lie though, I do feel right now that they don't have as much as I thought, but can't wait for the cell/financial information to tell the story to the jury

I've seen you on the Steven Avery forum and you are fine with people having different opinions there, why not here? Why should it be a problem if someone here thinks or believes something different? I think Chase is guilty, but it doesn't bother me if someone else doesn't.

 

[JMarsh]

I'm new to this forum, and not sure if I'll stay. But with all this discussion about those who don't automatically "believe" in guilt, are you maybe missing out on other viewpoints. Maybe people have gone away because they don't feel they can express themselves. I want to talk to people with lots of different views. Maybe I'm not welcome here.

 

[KALI]

Great post Ocean.
Tweets are someone's writing from THEIR perspective. Just like reporters nowadays.
We really are not getting the lowdown of what's going on in this trial though, even with the videos, because we cannot see how this jury is reacting to any of it.
We are not even getting tweets about how the jury is reacting.

I too am keeping the faith, because the idea of Chase Merritt walking out free and clear would be beyond depressing to me.

Friday, I read this post when you first wrote it, but since then I've been unable to get it out of my mind all day.

So I did some soul searching of my own. It reminded me of how I was duped one time into believing what had been tweeted throughout another trial.

The negative online comments made about the prosecutor's performance didn't help matters either. As embarrassing as it is to admit, I fell for it hook, line, and sinker already resigning myself into believing prematurely that justice would not be served for the victim.

I certainly couldn't use the excuse that I was just a novice about criminal trials since I had been closely following criminal trials for around 30 years at that time.

It was a new method at the time for trials that were done by tweets at the time. So I knew I had to adjust, and become familiar with methods that were different from what I had always known.

However, I did notice at the time that the courtroom tweeter seem to quote the points made by the defense the majority of time.

At the time I thought that was just normal, and because I wasn't familiar with tweeted trials back then.

Anyway, to say the least when the verdict came back in very quickly, and it was guilty, I was totally shocked but pleased of course.

Iirc, I was posting over on IS at the time. Most were highly upset thinking the tweeter had purposefully mislead everyone.

We later found out she was close friends with the defense, which later explained why the majority of tweets I had seen were of the defense.

I promised myself then I wouldn't ever be swayed by tweets or negative online comments, yet once again I seem to have fallen for it in this trial, and I feel so ashamed. I should have known better.

I don't know if you have listened/watched every bit of trial testimony done in real time without any editing.

I have not. I did try my best to endure it the first three days of testimony, but I found it impossible due to the style of these defense attorneys who waste so much time on long highly unnecessary cross examinations.

Since then I have relied solely on tweets, and summaries posted here.

At least for me I know I have made a mistake by doing so.

Therefore, I will keep the faith that this jury will do the right thing, and justice will be served for the McStay family, and their love ones.

I will continue to believe this until I know otherwise which will be at the end of this case, and not a minute before.

I truly believe jurors are logical, and reasonable minded people.

So I will end with this by quoting Rick Distaso again during his closing in Scott Peterson's death penalty murder trial for it absolutely applies to CMs murder case as well.

Imo, it will all come down to this in the end after all of the evidence has been entered against CM..

'How many coincidences are you willing to believe, and still be able to call yourself reasonable people?'

Take care, and please keep the faith.

Ocean

 

[missy1974]

The VM isssue is troubling. Dugal stated all the VM's up to the 15th were deleted. I'm almost positive a pin is required to access VM, so Joseph was at least alive to provide the pin to whoever deleted them.

The other theory about Chase leaving his phone behind, someone would have had to been there to answer it when Joseph called. So either he was still in RC or he was working in tandem with someone else.

Why was Chase making numerous calls to Cathy just before lunch?

This reminded me of something, because I think the defense asked one of the phone dudes about accessing voicemail from other phones, etc. .... I'm hoping you might know... but how did Dan have access to Joey's emails anyway? Were they connected to the website?

His calls to Cathy... were they all answered? I have tried calling my husband numerous times in a row, it's not because I'm prepping for anything nefarious LOL Sometimes when I see or hear these things, if I can relate it to something in my own life, it seems silly. Just as an example.. my husband has texted me numerous times in a row at times because he's at the grocery store and wants to know if we need milk before he leaves (in 2010 he might have called me instead, I don't recall texting a lot back then and he sucked at it and still does lol).... I just don't know that it's as nefarious as the prosecutor's are making it out to be. Maybe he was just trying to get a hold of her to let her know that he was going to meet Joey and wasn't going to be available for a few hours... how old were their kids at the time? So many factor's lol I don't know if we will ever get the answers though, even if she does testify, I don't know if we or I will believe everything she says. JMO

 

[Tortoise]

If Merritt turned off his headlights as he turned into the road, I wonder with only his running lights on if the camera would pick him up in the dark, and if it would even register the movement if there was no perceptible movement of light and shadow on the road. How do camera motion detectors work/register movement in the dark if the subject is not lit up?