CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

[asyousay]

Yes I think they will refute the cell phone data too. How will he explain the 90 min call to quikbooks using his own phone though I wonder? I think QB have notes of the conversation where he’s asking for the account to be closed. I really do hope the jury is bright enough to put the jigsaw puzzles together to create the bigger picture. He had the three strikes situation hanging over his head, CM was literally fighting for his life as he knew it vs a lifetime in an 8ft cell.

If Chase was that scared of going back to Jail the defense will argue that he wouldn’t of been stupid enough to steal off Joey in the first place.

The cheque on the 2nd that Chase wrote is still such a head puzzler for me as it doesn’t add up. What had happened to make him take that final step in saying to Joey “F*** you” as that was the beginning of the end. Chase can not come back from that so something had obviously happened for him to make that decision.

 

[katydid23]

I think you’re talking about the park and ride at the intersection of Hwy 76 and I15. I think it may feature in the crime, since it’s easy walking from the McStay home, for a vigorous person. There’s no type of public transportation there, as far as I know. Certainly no Amtrak or light rail. But—not that big of a taxi-ride from the Mexican border.

I had to look that up because we have a Park and Ride in Thousand Oaks, and people 'park' there so they can 'ride' public transit. Commuters park there so they can board buses into LA area.

So I looked up the Fallbrook Park and Ride and there are Muni Transit buses at the site:


Public transit info provided by Riverside Transit Agency.

Early Bird Commuter:
North to Temecula Express
5:23 am5:23 am

North to Temecula/Murrieta Express
7:14 am8:16 am

South to Oceanside Express
4:09 am5:40 am


ETC ETC

 

[Niner]

If they were killed in the home, they would either be buried right away, or stored somewhere else. I read today that CM's phone was "off" for 20 hours on the 5th, don't know if this is actual factual? If it is, he could've buried them in the early am hours of the 5th. Then bury items of evidence on the 6th when his phone pings out there. I just don't know for a fact that his phone was off for 20 hours on the 5th?

Here's what I got:

Friday, February 5 – Silveria says Joseph McStay's friend texted him about a soccer game that had been cancelled because of possible rain, Silveria said, but McStay never responded.

Friday, February 5
12:06pm – user added check to charles merritt for $4500 – memo line: Paul Mitchell, dated 2-5-10 per Prelim hearing page 111. Per Prelim hearing page 114 – check was cashed on 2-5-10 by Charles at Union bank. (Flurry of checks created, printed, deleted. A $4,500 check was CASHED at Union Bank. Metro Sheet Metal checks were written ($1650 & $250) and later delivered in person to Metro by CM. $2,350 check was printed and deposited in B of A. The checks on this date that were cashed/deposited appeared to have forged Joseph McStay signatures.)
12:12pm – user printed check written at 12:06pm; date changed 2-4-10;12:19pm – user added metro sheet metal as vendor.
12:21pm – user added check to metro sheet for $1650 – memo line: “Misc. Manufactuer”, check backdated to 2-4-10 per Prelim hearing page 113.
12:25pm – check written to Metro Sheet Metal for $250, backdated to 2-4-10 and printed.
12:29pm – user added check to charles merritt for $6505 – memo line: “Balance SA (1001)”, check backdated to 2-4-10. This check is printed.12:33pm – another check written to Charles Merritt for $2350, backdated to 2-4-10. This check deposited at Bank of America by CM (page 114 Prelim hearing).
12:38pm – user deleted check written at 12:29pm – per Prelim hearing page 112.

Friday, Feb. 5, 7am to 3:54pm - CM cell phone pings in Upland, Santa Clarita, San Fernando, Rancho Cucamonga. From Preliminary hearing (page 84) – 7am CM checks his voice mail; phone in the general area of Upland, Calif.
Next activity at:
10:45am and 10:46am in general area of Santa Clarita; at
10:59am contact with cell tower general area of Interstate 210 near the San Fernando area. Then at
12:49pm and 2:23pm contact two cell towers adjacent to each other in Rancho Cucamonga.
2:32pm to 3:54pm he contacts two different towers, both in the Rancho Cucamonga area.

Feb. 5, 3:54pm to 9:17pm - CM cell phone disabled. See Feb. 9th 4:49pm-10:11pm ** re “disabled”. From Preliminary hearing (page 84-85) – after the 3:54pm call in the Rancho Cucamonga area, no call activity until 9:17pm; so over 5 hours of no activity.

Saturday, Feb. 6, 10:46am to 1:30pm - CM cell phone pings in Victorville & Oro Grande. On February 6, 2010, Merritt's mobile phone made ten cell phone calls from the Victorville area. Six of the ten calls pinged on an AT&T cell phone tower closest to the location of the McStay graves near Victorville. A forensic review of the data showed Merritt's phone was located to the east of the cell tower in the same area where the bodies were buried. Merritt has a sister who lives to the west of the cell tower. She told investigators that Merritt had not been to her house since 2009. From Preliminary hearing (page 85-86) – first phone activity is at:

10:46am - contact tower in Victorville area near Interstate I5. Next activity at
11:30am thru 11:52am contacts cell tower in Oro Grande, north of Victorville in the High Desert, near Interstate I5.
11:53am – cell tower a bit south, back near Victorville.
12:49pm – contacts a cell tower in Victorville area.
1:30pm – contacts with cell tower in the Oro Grande area.

10:59am - The last four texts to Summer, including two messages from Dan Kavanaugh, an associate of Joseph McStay, arrived on Saturday. The final text message registered at 10:59 a.m., presumably just before the mobile phone’s battery was exhausted.
Feb. 6, 3:14pm to Feb 7, 10:35am - CM cell phone disabled.
Feb. 6 - Dan initiated a transfer of $2,000.00 from Joseph's Paypal account into his account.
Sunday, Feb. 7, 10:35am to 11:17am - CM cell pings in Rancho Cucamonga. Per Preliminary hearings – page 91
11:46am to 4:06pm – contact cell towers in Rancho Cucamonga and Ontario areas. Per Preliminary hearings – page 91
3:47pm – contact between victim’s cell phone and defendant’s cell. Per Preliminary hearings – page 91 – call originated from defendant’s cell (2 calls). Feb. 4th is the last time CM leaves voice message for Joey.

5:17pm – last call of the day – contact with cell tower in Rancho Cucamonga. Per Preliminary hearings – page 91

 

[Niner]

The day the Isuzu Trooper is found:

Monday, February 8 – Their white Isuzu Trooper was impounded from a shopping center near the Mexican border. The car was found abandoned or towed.

February 8 – per CM: he drove to Joseph’s house because he knew something wasn’t right. “We talked many times daily on the phone and now I couldn’t get a hold of him at all for four days, so I thought I’d just drive down there.” On his way to Joseph’s house, he stopped by Joseph’s mother’s house. He asked her if she had heard from her son in the past few days. ‘On the fourth day I drove out to his house, stopping at his mother’s on the way. I asked if she’d heard from him and she said she hadn’t. She called Mikey (Joseph's brother) and I suggested he meet me out there. “She looked at her phone and realized she hadn’t heard from him since Thursday the week before, so I drove on to the house,” he said. I drove out, but Mikey didn’t call me. ‘The family’s dogs were out in the backyard, so I gave them some water and food. I opened up a shed in the back for them to go in because it was cold and wet. He didn’t go in the house but walked around back and found the dogs there. He fed the dogs with food he knew was in the storage shed and left the shed door ajar so the dogs would have cover. “It had been a rainy few days and there was no place for them to find cover but in the shed.” 'On the way back I stopped at his mother’s again and told her to get Mikey out there.

Feb. 8, 7:26am to 1:31pm - CM cell phone disabled. See Feb. 9th 4:49pm-10:11pm ** re “disabled”.
Feb. 8, 1:31pm - CM cell phone pings in Corona, CA and appears to be heading north. Per Preliminary hearing – page 92-93; cell tower near Auto Center Drive and the 91 Freeway in Corona. Followed by a tower at
1:41pm further north up on the I5 Freeway. Then at
1:42pm hits cell tower adjacent to I5 Freeway in Limonite. (near the Limonite exit in Mira Loma)

February 8 –
2:20pm – QuickBooks activity – user added check to Charles Merritt for $6,500 memo line: “saudi arabia final”, check backdated to 2-4-10 per Prelim hearing page 115; check was printed and deleted and deposited into CM’s BofA account on the next day Feb. 9th.
2:44pm – user canceled QuickBooks online subscription.

 

[Niner]

Sorry for the late posts - but you all were posting at 4am my time - and discussing this - thought I'd do a refresher on those days!

 

[katydid23]

Friday, February 5
12:06pm – user added check to charles merritt for $4500 – memo line: Paul Mitchell, dated 2-5-10 per Prelim hearing page 111. Per Prelim hearing page 114 – check was cashed on 2-5-10 by Charles at Union bank. (Flurry of checks created, printed, deleted. A $4,500 check was CASHED at Union Bank. Metro Sheet Metal checks were written ($1650 & $250) and later delivered in person to Metro by CM. $2,350 check was printed and deposited in B of A. The checks on this date that were cashed/deposited appeared to have forged Joseph McStay signatures.)
12:12pm – user printed check written at 12:06pm; date changed 2-4-10;12:19pm – user added metro sheet metal as vendor.
12:21pm – user added check to metro sheet for $1650 – memo line: “Misc. Manufactuer”, check backdated to 2-4-10 per Prelim hearing page 113.
12:25pm – check written to Metro Sheet Metal for $250, backdated to 2-4-10 and printed.
12:29pm – user added check to charles merritt for $6505 – memo line: “Balance SA (1001)”, check backdated to 2-4-10. This check is printed.12:33pm – another check written to Charles Merritt for $2350, backdated to 2-4-10. This check deposited at Bank of America by CM (page 114 Prelim hearing).
12:38pm – user deleted check written at 12:29pm – per Prelim hearing page 112.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


THIS^^^^ QB stuff is going to be hard for the defense to explain.

I know they are going to try and say that Chase was paying MSM because 'he was keeping the business going', blah blah blah.......But why would he know that on Feb 5th? Why wouldn't he expect Joey to get that check ready for MSM?

The defense is going to have to try and convince the jurors that Joey gave him total access to his bank accounts and told him to write out checks when necessary, and forge his signature.

I don't know any business owner that gives that kind of financial access to their employees. That would be madness.

If Joey wanted Chase to have that kind of financial business relationship , he would make him a signee on the business account---WHICH HE NEVER DID.

 

[asyousay]

Yes the back dating of the cheques is the most damning evidence of all.

Only a person who knew they had vanished on the 4th would back date the cheques to then to hide what they was doing.

That’s my one shining hope in all the mistakes made that can not simply be explained away by Chase.

 

[mrjitty]

If Chase was that scared of going back to Jail the defense will argue that he wouldn’t of been stupid enough to steal off Joey in the first place.

You can say this about any repeat crook. Most have poor impulse control.

The cheque on the 2nd that Chase wrote is still such a head puzzler for me as it doesn’t add up. What had happened to make him take that final step in saying to Joey “F*** you” as that was the beginning of the end. Chase can not come back from that so something had obviously happened for him to make that decision.

Gambling IMO

 

[mrjitty]

I think he did the fraudulent MSM cheques to make the lower case CM cheques look like legit cheques done by Joey.

By the afternoon of the 4th at the latest, he knew Joey had discovered the fraud and spoken to the bank.

So it became necessary to attempt to muddy the waters within Quick Books.

I wonder if he believed backdating would mean investigators would think the cheques were created on the 4th.

Probably he didn't know about the activity logging within QB.

 

[asyousay]

You can say this about any repeat crook. Most have poor impulse control.



Gambling IMO

Was Chase not gambling all along though as Joey lent him money for his past debts?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Going under the presumption they were buried directly after he murdered them, he didn't have the time. That's why they were so shallow. I've been to the gravesite. He needed to get out of there -

Good morning Helen.

In almost every murder case I've followed where the victims were found buried they were almost always found in shallow graves.

It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort to dig one grave very deep.

That is very reason many of the buried victims were later discovered due the majority being buried in shallow graves and became unearthed,

Much easier to dig two shallow graves than one. It would take him too long to dig one large enough for all 4 bodies.

Also this area was in CMs comfort zone. Most murderers do choose areas they are familiar with to dispose of the bodies.

They often choose places that are usually off limits to others or rarely if ever...entered.

He knew the environment there, and knew the longer the bodies decomposed wild life would ravage the graves.

At the time of when he buried them all the graves were probably much deeper than 18 inches, but as years passed the surrounding sand side walls will back fill into the graves making them shallower when found.

Also in both graves there would be voids, and air pockets when he first buried them.. Those voids and air pockets over time would settle, and cause the graves to have surface openings where the sand on top of the bodies would collapse inward due to the soil not being tightly compacted in the grave at the time he buried them, which would cause erosion in the graves themselves making them shallower, and shallower as time passed.

The side walls of soil that held each grave would continue to weaken, and rains would continue to push the soil out of the graves.

Imo

 

[A lucas]

You can say this about any repeat crook. Most have poor impulse control.



Gambling IMO

I agree with you Mr J. Gamblers by their very nature are impulsive risk takers. CM took risks by taking money from JM’s account but I doubt he ever thought that would lead to the threat of his three strikes becoming a reality.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Have you ever watched the show Cold Justice? Kelly Siegler (Retired Texas DA) investigates cold cases with Yolanda Clary (Real Las Vegas CSI), whom the show 'CSI' originated from, Kelly Siegler uses pencils as a metaphor about CE cases. One pencil, CE evidence, is not enough to convict (breaking the pencil demonstrates a weak case). However, if you have multiple pencils together, CE is MUCH harder to break. The more CE you have, the 'stronger' your case is. I have always loved that example regarding criminal cases with ONLY CE evidence.

Good morning Edmo!

Absolutely! In fact I watched several of Kelly's shows yesterday.

I love that woman, and have so much deep respect for her how she, and her team gives justice to so many victims, and their families.

Yesterday they solved a cold case that was 27 years old, iirc.

Kelly had so many pieces of circumstantial evidence listed on her white board under each suspect that it almost covered it up. Lol!

From all of this CE, Kelly, and her team had discovered.... the local DA indicted all three with first degree murder!

Kelly is fearless, and a true justice warrior, and she does it all using by using CE.

As a seasoned prosecutor she knows those are the cases that will stand the test of time.

Imo

 

[thelmadawg]

I think you’re talking about the park and ride at the intersection of Hwy 76 and I15. I think it may feature in the crime, since it’s easy walking from the McStay home, for a vigorous person. There’s no type of public transportation there, as far as I know. Certainly no Amtrak or light rail. But—not that big of a taxi-ride from the Mexican border.

Yes, that's the one. Perhaps only a good place to park a vehicle until you can get back to it.

 

[BradB]

Yes I think they will refute the cell phone data too. How will he explain the 90 min call to quikbooks using his own phone though I wonder? I think QB have notes of the conversation where he’s asking for the account to be closed. I really do hope the jury is bright enough to put the jigsaw puzzles together to create the bigger picture. He had the three strikes situation hanging over his head, CM was literally fighting for his life as he knew it vs a lifetime in an 8ft cell.

I spoke on this before. Some humans don’t have the ability to connect dots and put the pieces of the puzzle together. This is what scares me.

 

[missy1974]

The day the Isuzu Trooper is found:

Monday, February 8 – Their white Isuzu Trooper was impounded from a shopping center near the Mexican border. The car was found abandoned or towed.

February 8 – per CM: he drove to Joseph’s house because he knew something wasn’t right. “We talked many times daily on the phone and now I couldn’t get a hold of him at all for four days, so I thought I’d just drive down there.” On his way to Joseph’s house, he stopped by Joseph’s mother’s house. He asked her if she had heard from her son in the past few days. ‘On the fourth day I drove out to his house, stopping at his mother’s on the way. I asked if she’d heard from him and she said she hadn’t. She called Mikey (Joseph's brother) and I suggested he meet me out there. “She looked at her phone and realized she hadn’t heard from him since Thursday the week before, so I drove on to the house,” he said. I drove out, but Mikey didn’t call me. ‘The family’s dogs were out in the backyard, so I gave them some water and food. I opened up a shed in the back for them to go in because it was cold and wet. He didn’t go in the house but walked around back and found the dogs there. He fed the dogs with food he knew was in the storage shed and left the shed door ajar so the dogs would have cover. “It had been a rainy few days and there was no place for them to find cover but in the shed.” 'On the way back I stopped at his mother’s again and told her to get Mikey out there.

Feb. 8, 7:26am to 1:31pm - CM cell phone disabled. See Feb. 9th 4:49pm-10:11pm ** re “disabled”.
Feb. 8, 1:31pm - CM cell phone pings in Corona, CA and appears to be heading north. Per Preliminary hearing – page 92-93; cell tower near Auto Center Drive and the 91 Freeway in Corona. Followed by a tower at
1:41pm further north up on the I5 Freeway. Then at
1:42pm hits cell tower adjacent to I5 Freeway in Limonite. (near the Limonite exit in Mira Loma)

February 8 –
2:20pm – QuickBooks activity – user added check to Charles Merritt for $6,500 memo line: “saudi arabia final”, check backdated to 2-4-10 per Prelim hearing page 115; check was printed and deleted and deposited into CM’s BofA account on the next day Feb. 9th.
2:44pm – user canceled QuickBooks online subscription.

Good Morning Niner

I was looking at this timeline in the McStay forum yesterday. I was trying to find info on his cell location at 7:34am on the 8th. I noticed that some of this information is incorrect. He didn't go and see Susan on the 8th. I believe from testimony, he went on the 9th? But I am actually not sure if it was the 9th or 10th, I recall in testimony that between Mike and Susan, there was some confusion over the 9th/10th and who called who when, etc.

Also, we need to be careful with the "disabled" and "no activity" thing lol I hate that I have to keep saying that, but there is a difference, and I bet the defense will harp on that as well. Edmo indicated that from personal experience, some area's don't have great coverage, so now I'm even more cautious about this off/airplane mode/ out of range info. Although, the 4th looks like it was off for a period of time, and not just one call IMO.

I would like to get a picture of the calendar that they are using in the courtroom and keep writing on, I think the cam can't get a view of it because of the jury though. lol

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You can say this about any repeat crook. Most have poor impulse control.



Gambling IMO

Morning mrjitty! ITA!

I have said many times that those who murder are very high risk takers. They all are willing to take those high risks, and by definition of what they do... it shows they are high risk takers. Just like pedophiles who kidnap young children right off busy streets in broad daylight in order to rape, and then murder them..

No risk is too high for them or for anyone who commits violent crimes.

I don't think it's even about a lack of impulse control since so murderers have carefully planned, and premeditated their murders before carrying them out.

Imo, none of them are afraid to take the risks necessary to achieve their intended goals.

If they weren't willing to take these high risks then there would be no murders.

Every one of them believe at the time they are going to be THE ONE who will get away with it all.

Just like the addicted gambler thinks they are going to win big each time they play even though they have taken those same high risks before which didn't pan out, but it doesn't stop them from taking the same risks over, and over again.

Some seem to think the worst piece of evidence the defense will have to overcome is the charles meritt check and when its was done.

However, I respectfully disagree, although I do understand it.

It will not be one piece of circumstantial evidence to overcome, but it will be the very long, and growing list of many CE pieces that will continue to mount.

The check in written in small cap is just one of the things the defense is going to have to overcome.

Imo, thus far from the evidence presented it shows only CM knew the day they all disappeared they were going to remain missing forever or until their bodies are found.

CMs entire activity/actions/his own words to others, and everything he did around this very same time frame shows clearly he was the only one at that time that knew the McStay's didn't willingly disappear, but were actually dead and buried in the desert where he put them.

Imo

 

[missy1974]

Friday, February 5
12:06pm – user added check to charles merritt for $4500 – memo line: Paul Mitchell, dated 2-5-10 per Prelim hearing page 111. Per Prelim hearing page 114 – check was cashed on 2-5-10 by Charles at Union bank. (Flurry of checks created, printed, deleted. A $4,500 check was CASHED at Union Bank. Metro Sheet Metal checks were written ($1650 & $250) and later delivered in person to Metro by CM. $2,350 check was printed and deposited in B of A. The checks on this date that were cashed/deposited appeared to have forged Joseph McStay signatures.)
12:12pm – user printed check written at 12:06pm; date changed 2-4-10;12:19pm – user added metro sheet metal as vendor.
12:21pm – user added check to metro sheet for $1650 – memo line: “Misc. Manufactuer”, check backdated to 2-4-10 per Prelim hearing page 113.
12:25pm – check written to Metro Sheet Metal for $250, backdated to 2-4-10 and printed.
12:29pm – user added check to charles merritt for $6505 – memo line: “Balance SA (1001)”, check backdated to 2-4-10. This check is printed.12:33pm – another check written to Charles Merritt for $2350, backdated to 2-4-10. This check deposited at Bank of America by CM (page 114 Prelim hearing).
12:38pm – user deleted check written at 12:29pm – per Prelim hearing page 112.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


THIS^^^^ QB stuff is going to be hard for the defense to explain.

I know they are going to try and say that Chase was paying MSM because 'he was keeping the business going', blah blah blah.......But why would he know that on Feb 5th? Why wouldn't he expect Joey to get that check ready for MSM?

The defense is going to have to try and convince the jurors that Joey gave him total access to his bank accounts and told him to write out checks when necessary, and forge his signature.

I don't know any business owner that gives that kind of financial access to their employees. That would be madness.

If Joey wanted Chase to have that kind of financial business relationship , he would make him a signee on the business account---WHICH HE NEVER DID.

I don't know how the defense or Merritt is going to explain this. There is just no reasonable explanation.

The only thing I can think of them saying is that Chase told Joey or Joey told Chase to do it on the 4th and Chase didn't get around to it until those dates, but backdated them, so Joey would think he did them on the 4th. Now we have to believe that Joey would let Chase write those cheques, give Chase access to the QB account, and be okay with him signing his name. As for the calls to QB, in OS's they already gave us a glimpse into their explanation into that... that Joey asked him to do that for him. I could also see the defense saying that Joey was showing Chase how to use QB's on the 2nd. I don't think anyone will buy it ... but that is the only thing that I can even come up with that would even slightly cover this.

THIS is the information that the prosecution should be getting out there now IMO

On Tuesday, they are taking video testimony outside of the jury of the QB's guy that took the call about switching the QB's account, L&C will be streaming it. So we might get a bit more information as well... including maybe how the defense plans on explaining away the QB's stuff.

 

[Force Ten]

THIS^^^^ QB stuff is going to be hard for the defense to explain.

I know they are going to try and say that Chase was paying MSM because 'he was keeping the business going', blah blah blah.......But why would he know that on Feb 5th? Why wouldn't he expect Joey to get that check ready for MSM?

The defense is going to have to try and convince the jurors that Joey gave him total access to his bank accounts and told him to write out checks when necessary, and forge his signature.

I don't know any business owner that gives that kind of financial access to their employees. That would be madness.

If Joey wanted Chase to have that kind of financial business relationship , he would make him a signee on the business account---WHICH HE NEVER DID.

This is where I feel the defense will ultimately fail. There is no way to prove this without some documentation or contract drawn up by Joseph himself. The only way they they had any chance of convincing a jury is to have Chase testify himself and I just don't foresee that happening.

 

[missy1974]

I think he did the fraudulent MSM cheques to make the lower case CM cheques look like legit cheques done by Joey.

By the afternoon of the 4th at the latest, he knew Joey had discovered the fraud and spoken to the bank.

So it became necessary to attempt to muddy the waters within Quick Books.

I wonder if he believed backdating would mean investigators would think the cheques were created on the 4th.

Probably he didn't know about the activity logging within QB.

I think he did the MSM cheques so Carmen and MSM wouldn't keep trying to get in touch with Joey. JMO

One thing I caught in Elva Fonseca's testimony is that in 2007, Chase used QB's for his business.