CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

[oceanblueeyes]

Was Chase not gambling all along though as Joey lent him money for his past debts?

Sooner or later after already loaning CM 43k even CM knew Joey would want to be paid back.

Maybe Joey had already approached him about paying the thousands back he owed him.

This may have even heatedly discussed the very same day of the meeting that put all of this in play.

Imo, the walls were closing in for Merritt.

Imo

 

[QueenBofOB]

I believe somewhere in the testimonies a det. was asked about that and he said he didn't notice anything out of the norm, the seat had not been moved to fit a big guy like CM. So here is another point: if CM was so careful as to have moved the seat back to it's original position to cover up for himself, wouldn't he have done something to clean his DNA from the wheel? If he had cleaned the house so thoroughly, why didn't he clean the Trooper in the same way?

As for the lever, chances are no one thought of taking fingerprint or DNA from it.

Well, there's also the possibility that he could've left the Trooper parked somewhere with the keys in it. Then someone came along, stole it and drove it to the border.

 

[Force Ten]

Right, I would be too. But remember in the interview that they played of Chase, didn't he say that is exactly what he and Cathy did? and he had notes with him, and some thought that made him look shady ... I couldn't help but think and I believe I even said that I am a note taker, I would have been doing the same)

Here is a thought... so maybe somehow the family accessed his cell records before LE got them. 9 years later, I can't recall when we found out about the "last call", but I don't remember it being a long time. (remember Mike posting about the voicemail that sounded like restaurant noises in the background??? where the heck did that come from???). Is it possible that someone had already told Chase that he was the last person called from Joey's phone at 8:28 before he met with them on the 17th? Him and Cathy talk about it and he or she says well he must not have answered it if it happened? Some cell phone records can be accessed online, I know this from the Avery Case, this is exactly what they did when Teresa Halbach went missing, they accessed her records online and were able to see up to date usage.

ETA: does anyone recall during that interview if he knew before the interview or during the interview about the call on the evening of the 4th?

ETA: ok, I have scanned the youtube transcripts (which are not great), but I don't see anything about them even asking about that phone call in that interview, so I don't know on what date they asked him, and the longer away it is, the worse the memory is going to be. Interesting to note... they were asking Chase what he was doing on President's day, and saying the 8th ... since we just had this discussion earlier today, it stuck out to me... he called Cathy about it.

Regarding notes, I think it was in Thedailymail after he was arrested, he had Baker's book with notes in the margin. There was also computer searches for quotes about remorse.

I wonder if the jury (or we even) will get to read the book he was working on. There could be some Easter eggs in there.

The last call and the "restaurant sounds". Mike got that from Chase. The prosecution never asked him about so I'm guessing he never told detectives? This is a missed opportunity to catch Merritt in another lie.

 

[asyousay]

Sooner or later after already loaning CM 43k even CM knew Joey would want to be paid back.

Maybe Joey had already approached him about paying the thousands back he owed him.

This may have even heatedly discussed the very same day of the meeting that put all of this in play.

Imo, the walls were closing in for Merritt.

Imo

Surely Joey would of just of deducted from his wage a certain amount each month?


Also I can’t but help come back to the fact Chase would of earned a lot more from Joey in the coming months/years as the business expanded.

 

[A lucas]

This is where I feel the defense will ultimately fail. There is no way to prove this without some documentation or contract drawn up by Joseph himself. The only way they they had any chance of convincing a jury is to have Chase testify himself and I just don't foresee that happening.

I think the powerful thing here (if defence say joey allowed CM access) is the massive coincidence that the week JM decides to train CM on QB and gives a highly distrustful person access to his account, he and his family wind up dead and buried in the desert! Any jury with any sense will see through that...I hope.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is where I feel the defense will ultimately fail. There is no way to prove this without some documentation or contract drawn up by Joseph himself. The only way they they had any chance of convincing a jury is to have Chase testify himself and I just don't foresee that happening.

This jury is already hearing how CM can't be trusted. I imagine we may learn even more from those who have had business dealings with him in the past.

They would have believe this all just coincidentally started happening around the time when no one knew where Joey was, but did expect him to return, and return their calls like he was habitually accustomed to always doing.

The timing of when all of this was transpiring will be very important. Imo

More than likely someone on the jury will own a business themselves or have family or friends who do. If so, they would know they wouldn't ever in a million years give full access or any access to any of their financial accounts to someone who was a subcontractor only, and nothing more or to any outsider who had no legal connection to the company for that matter


So the defense is going to have a hard row to hoe when trying to dismiss something of such importance.

Imo

 

[missy1974]

Has the prosecution brought up that Chase owed Joey money? In their opening statement? testimony? I don't recall hearing it. Is this money just rumour? There are a lot of supposed "facts" that have been repeated over the years that actually may not be true. I think we need to remember that.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Has the prosecution brought up that Chase owed Joey money? In their opening statement? testimony? I don't recall hearing it. Is this money just rumour? There are a lot of supposed "facts" that have been repeated over the years that actually may not be true. I think we need to remember that.

JMO

prosecutor's opening speech - paragraph 5

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/opening-statements.413276/#post-14731667

 

[Force Ten]

The subject of the eggs has been raised before by non-Americans, asyousay. Yes, Americans like their eggs to be refrigerated, the reason being, I suppose, that it renders them fresher for a longer period of time, and also guards against harmful bacteria. Refrigerators have a separate little shelf just for a carton of eggs. Being from Toronto a long time ago, I don't recall that being the case, though. I think my mother just stuck them in the 'frig and that was that. But, she did put them in the 'frig.

I was watching Steers testimony last night. He said some of the eggs were broken. That would explain the bad smell. I'm curious to them being broken. But eggs are not only used for breakfast but many dishes throughout the day. We will often use them in dinner dishes if the cupboards are a bit lean. In my house we will even do 'breakfast for dinner'.

Coffee is also something consumed throughout the day. The defense is attempting to fool the jury of 12 adults that it's only for the morning. Anyone remember "J, did you just make the perfect latte, for Momma?". Those coffee grounds could have been from little Joseph, done at any time.

 

[KALI]

I do remember that Summer was a big coffee drinker. I have friends like that. They can drink a cup of coffee andvgo to bed and sleep as normal.
I have a large dog, I give him eggs with dinner. For what its worth.

I was watching Steers testimony last night. He said some of the eggs were broken. That would explain the bad smell. I'm curious to them being broken. But eggs are not only used for breakfast but many dishes throughout the day. We will often use them in dinner dishes if the cupboards are a bit lean. In my house we will even do 'breakfast for dinner'.

Coffee is also something consumed throughout the day. The defense is attempting to fool the jury of 12 adults that it's only for the morning. Anyone remember "J, did you just make the perfect latte, for Momma?". Those coffee grounds could have been from little Joseph, done at any time.

 

[missy1974]

prosecutor's opening speech - paragraph 5

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/opening-statements.413276/#post-14731667

Thanks Tortoise!

from the link:

Chase paid $173,255, owed $158,000 has been overpaid $15,045, plus $27,800. He doesn’t mention that when he’s explaining and what he ends up saying is Joseph’s gonna owe me $11,000 after these two projects. Because 26K minus 15K is about 11K.

Where does that come from? I don't see an explanation for it in there. Is this the 30K that Dan says he owed Joey?

 

[missy1974]

in the OS's, the prosecutor says this:

FEBRUARY 8TH

I’m going to jump forward to the 8th and then we’re going to come back and it’ll make sense when I do it, I promise. On February 8th that’s the day the Trooper was towed from the lot in San Ysidro, from 7.26 to 1.31 am [pm?] – at 7.26 the defendant has a cell phone connection to a tower in Rancho – after that his cell phone is not receiving or sending any messages so it’s either turned off in airplane mode or not connecting with any towers, from 7.26 am to 1.31 pm.​

I hadn't thought of looking at the opening statements to see where they say Chase's phone pinged the morning of the 8th!

 

[missy1974]

I was watching Steers testimony last night. He said some of the eggs were broken. That would explain the bad smell. I'm curious to them being broken. But eggs are not only used for breakfast but many dishes throughout the day. We will often use them in dinner dishes if the cupboards are a bit lean. In my house we will even do 'breakfast for dinner'.

Coffee is also something consumed throughout the day. The defense is attempting to fool the jury of 12 adults that it's only for the morning. Anyone remember "J, did you just make the perfect latte, for Momma?". Those coffee grounds could have been from little Joseph, done at any time.

Yeah, the eggs and coffee out means nothing to me. I loveeeeee breakfast for dinner! LOL Breakfast is good any time of the day IMO ;-) We are also coffee drinkers, more common for us to use the Keurig after that morning pot of coffee nowadays, but we made coffee at all times of the day before we had the Keurig.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

My problem with this is why no one checked up on the family when they were planning a party for the baby. No family or friends. Do you think someone would have gone by to check up? What about Friday night soccer? All I can think of is how people are so callus about people they are suppose to care for.

They didn't even feel the need to check days after the disappearance.

 

[Force Ten]

My problem with this is why no one checked up on the family when they were planning a party for the baby. No family or friends. Do you think someone would have gone by to check up? What about Friday night soccer? All I can think of is how people are so callus about people they are suppose to care for.

There was supposed to been a Chuckee Cheese party but I don't believe invitations were sent out. It seems they just weren't going to do a party or postponed it as Summer was frantically trying to get the painting done before the flooring was to be installed the following week.

 

[Niner]

@missy1974 - here's Feb. 9th & 10th:

Tuesday, February 9 –

8:06am – user again cancelled QuickBooks online subscription per Prelim hearing page 116. Per QuickBooks online customer service rep, Ryan Baker, Per Prelim hearing page 116 & 118 - this is the day someone used CM cell phone to call Quickbooks support and ask to delete account. The caller claimed to be JM, even though the cell phone number was that of CM. Caller wanted to transfer the account to anoher account and then once it was transferred and this subscription was canceled, he need to delete all of the accounts. The call lasted 107 minutes.

(Someone ordered a copy of Joseph’s Quickbooks accounting program four days after the disappearance and before they were reported missing.)

Tuesday, February 9 – SB and MM version:
San Diego contractor Michael McStay is at home with his family when the phone rings. The caller has some news about his brother.
MM: I first found out something was wrong on Tuesday the 9th.
Mike receives a telephone call. It’s Joseph’s business parter. He hasn’t heard from him in five days.
MM: That was alarming. No one’s heard from my brother in five days.
Joseph made a point to talk to his brother Mike regularly.
MM: We were the two McStay brothers. We would talk once a week…how ya doing? How’s business going? That kind of thing. Just kinda keep the foundation there.
JM hadn't called since the previous week, but MM wasn't concerned.
MM: Being that President’s Day fell on that Monday, and that being kind of a holiday time of the year...we thought, well, maybe they're doing a ten day vacay. Ya know… Take off that Saturday, go that week, then you have a three day weekend.
But when learns that Joseph hasn't talked to his business partner since then, MM knows something’s not right.
MM: He was always on the phone. He always had multiple business deals going on. So, all of a sudden, that brought to a halt... That's pretty big.
And MM is not the only family member to be concerned about Joey's sudden lack of communication.
SB: I live north of here, probably about a 3 hour drive. When I hadn't heard from Joey in five days, I talked to one of Joey's subcontractors and said, would you mind going by the house and see if dogs are there.
The McStay family has two dogs, a puppy named Digger, and eight-year-old Bear. Summer was especially devoted to Bear, whom she raised since he was a puppy. When he goes to check on the house, Joseph’s partner finds Bear and Digger playing outside, their food bowls filled.
MM: If they were leaving town they'd let people know because they'd have to take care of the dogs.
The family is relieved. But two days later, when the McStay family still hasn't been heard from, Joey's mother Susan asks JM's business partner to go by the house again.

Feb. 9 - Someone transferred $2,000 from Joseph’s bank account into his PayPal account.

Feb. 9, 8:06am - Another attempt was made to cancel Quickbooks subscription. Not sure if this was by phone or online.

Feb. 9, 1:07pm - CM makes call to JM (no further attempts to call JM – per Preliminary hearing – page 94: cell tower between Corona and Lake Elsinore – the south Corona area, Temescal Valley.)

Feb. 9, 4:49pm to 10:11pm - CM cell phone pings at Pechanga Casino.
Merritt's cell phone also pinged in the Fallbrook area on February 9. Merritt's cell phone did not ping at any time close to the border in San Ysidro.

**On several occasions, Merritt's cell phone was either dead, or turned off, or out of cell phone range for hours at a time, including five hours of inactivity on Feb. 5 and six hours of inactivity on Feb. 8. Per Preliminary hearing – page 93:
4:49pm to 10:11pm – cell tower adjacent to the Pechanga Indian Reservation in the Temecula area. ATM withdrawal of $1000 at Pechanga Casino from CM’s BofA account – per Prelim hearing page 130.
Tuesday, Feb. 9 to Thursday, March 12 – CM makes series of ATM withdrawals at Pechanga and other SoCal casinos. Detective Ryan Smith of SBSD testified that Merritt made several ATM withdrawals from Southern California casinos between Feb. 9 and March 12, 2010, totaling a few thousand dollars.

Wednesday, February 10 - In response to request from Joseph's business partner (Dan K.), San Diego County sheriff's deputy checks on family's welfare. No answer at door, no signs of foul play. The McStay mystery began with a call to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department on Feb. 10, 2010, six days after the family's last contact with friends and relatives. It was from Dan Kavanaugh, who ran the website for Joseph's business, Earth Inspired Products, which installs water fountains. He hadn't been able to reach Joseph for several days. The McStays occasionally had gone away for a weekend without telling anyone, but it was unusual for him to be out of touch for this long.

Feb. 10 – per CM: ‘It got to about the seventh day and I called his mom and said she should call the Sheriff. She did and they went out to do a routine check, but that was it.

Feb. 10 – per Silviera - Then another friend sent over important real estate papers on Feb. 10 and called Summer to see if she received them. Her call wasn't returned.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks Tortoise!

from the link:

Chase paid $173,255, owed $158,000 has been overpaid $15,045, plus $27,800. He doesn’t mention that when he’s explaining and what he ends up saying is Joseph’s gonna owe me $11,000 after these two projects. Because 26K minus 15K is about 11K.

Where does that come from? I don't see an explanation for it in there. Is this the 30K that Dan says he owed Joey?

there's also this bit in the os -

They found that within 42 minutes of receiving that email from Joseph ‘hey I’ve overpaid you $42,845’ within 45 minutes within that hour Joseph’s QuickBooks was accessed. At 12.24 pm on February 1st – this was not done from any of the computers seized from the McStay residence – a vendor was added, charles merritt, all lower case.

 

[Chelly]

I was watching Steers testimony last night. He said some of the eggs were broken. That would explain the bad smell. I'm curious to them being broken. But eggs are not only used for breakfast but many dishes throughout the day. We will often use them in dinner dishes if the cupboards are a bit lean. In my house we will even do 'breakfast for dinner'.

Coffee is also something consumed throughout the day. The defense is attempting to fool the jury of 12 adults that it's only for the morning. Anyone remember "J, did you just make the perfect latte, for Momma?". Those coffee grounds could have been from little Joseph, done at any time.

What has strong smell, or stinks, especially when left on a counter or floor for some time?
*Broken eggs
*Used coffee grounds
*Popcorn
*Dirty diapers
All of these were found on first inspection of McStay home. I have always believed the killer put these out to mask death odors. Additionally, the killer painted some walls. Fresh paint odor masks a multitude of lingering smells.

 

[QueenBofOB]

Yeah, the eggs and coffee out means nothing to me. I loveeeeee breakfast for dinner! LOL Breakfast is good any time of the day IMO ;-) We are also coffee drinkers, more common for us to use the Keurig after that morning pot of coffee nowadays, but we made coffee at all times of the day before we had the Keurig.

What *I* thought, was that the coffee, popcorn and spoiled eggs, were all put out to stage the house and help to cover up any smell, like fresh paint (to cover up any splatter, from the murders).

 

[asyousay]

I think Summer had alienated some of family. I am not blaming her but it seems like some of family wasn’t as concerned as they should of been due to the fact the family was fractured when they went missing.

Mikey and Susan definitely should of done more but we know from the testimony that Mike had fallen out with Summer and Susan even left the party that they had the falling out with Mike.

Patrick on the hand seemed a lot closer to Joey than MM.