CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[Edmo]

No shoes in the graves. We don't know what the family was wearing when they left the home.

Shoes were found at the front door (outside) entrance, FWIW.

 

[JMarsh]

Usually, a Prosecutor will charge as much as they can. It depends on the crime: IE; Using a firearm in the commission of a Felony, etc. Using that firearm "could" increase your sentence, in years of punishment.

Killing a family of 4, no matter how you did it, is an automatic DP case, IMO. Whether you're a career criminal or not.

It could be a statute of limitations issue. And it might also be that the prosecutors know they can't prove fraud.

 

[JMarsh]

Shoes were found at the front door (outside) entrance, FWIW.

Everyone in that family only had one pair of shoes? Really?

 

[Longtimenoc]

Two toddlers, a healthy food easy to prepare and a diversion, popcorn is a 24/7 food when you have young children.

No way popcorn for breakfast. Think about it

 

[JMarsh]

No way popcorn for breakfast. Think about it

We don't know what the family's habits were. And I've taken care of a lot of toddlers, with odder treats than that for breakfast.

 

[Longtimenoc]

BBM

I would agree with this if it wasn't for the fact that McGyver had been there that week on multiple days helping Summer paint, and Chase was also there and was aware of that. So he was taking a chance IMO that McGyver wasn't there or planning on being there. JMO

Maybe he knew that Summer didnt tolerate drop in company

 

[citygirl]

BBM

Didn't the brother, father, and pretty much everyone else associated with this ordeal do the exact same thing??

His father lives in Texas. I have never been one to blame the family. So much of that went on in the beginning. The family was naive enough to open their thoughts and words to the cyber community in the hopes of making sense of it all. It was a grave error. They were vilified at every turn. It was ugly.MOO

 

[Edmo]

No shoes.

There are pairs of shoes shown on video at their front door (outside).

 

[asyousay]

The no shoes in the grave mean nothing either imo

They was at home and was being taken somewhere to be murdered so Chase was hardly going to make them all sit down and put on shoes and waste time.

 

[JMarsh]

They didnt get this Intuit info from Encase. This describes how they retrieved that QB info:



THE WITNESS: Daniel, D-a-n-i-e-l, Hanke, H-a-n-k-e.
THE COURT: Okay, you may proceed.
MR. DAUGHERTY: Thank you, your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DAUGHERTY:

Q How did you receive access to these records from Intuit?
A Intuit cloned Joseph’s accounts and made me an authorized user on the accounts. It was an online-based account, so I signed in using my information, and I could view Joseph’s account. I couldn’t alter it. I couldn’t change it or modify it. I could view and print the records, only.
Q And those are the records that we previously discussed were maintained by QuickBooks and the entries were at or near the time the events occurred?
A That’s correct.
Q Okay. With regard to both of those accounts, both the
Contact and the Custom account, how were those divvied up in the business? Was there two sides to the business, two separate businesses? Or do you know?

A Yes, there was. The original account, the Contact account that was created in 2004, had a mixture of Joseph’s personal finances as well as his business finances. The Custom account was strictly business, but he was not writing checks from that account.
Q When you write a check from QuickBooks, does it automatically debit the money from an account?
A If the user has a credit card, a bank card, somethinglike that associated with QuickBooks, it can debit. It can be linked to Pay Pal, those type of things. But Joseph basically used these accounts for an online ledger where he created invoices, he wrote checks and kept track of his money coming and going out. But it was not actually associated to a bank.
Q Did you also review or speak with someone who reviewed
Joseph’s bank accounts?
A Yes.
Q Was that at Union Bank?
A Yes.

Q Which? Did you review it or —
A Yes, I reviewed it and spoke with Detective Ryan Smith.
Q Okay. With regard to the Custom account, were any checks from, you said it was opened in January of 2008, from January of 2008 until February 1st, 2010, were any checks listed on QuickBooks or written from QuickBooks on the Custom side of the
account?
A On the Custom side, no.
Q So, all the checks during that time period were listed on
the other account?
A On the Contact account, yes.
Q Okay. On February 1st, 2010, were you able to tell from the records provided by Intuit whether there was any activity that day, on February 1st?
A Yes, I could.
Q What did you learn?

A I learned that a user — it showed that Joseph McStay logged onto the account, so that was Joseph McStay’s I.D. and password logged onto the account. And there was a vendor added, charles merritt, all lower-case letters;
Q Why was it significant to you that charles merritt was all lower case?
A When I looked at the Contact account, Charles Merritt was already a vendor in the Contact account. And there were checks written to Charles Merritt in the Contact account. And in that account it had Charles Merritt with a capital C, the rest of the
name of Charles was lower case, and there was a capital M and the rest of Merritt was lower case. In this account it was all lower case and it was a new vendor added.
Q Are you familiar — well, do you know if the McStays’ computers were completed as part of San Diego’s investigation?
A Yes, they were.
Q And how many computers did they have?
A I believe it was a desktop computer and a laptop computer.

Q Were those provided to San Bernardino County?
A Yes, they were.
Q And are you familiar with — well, was a forensic exam of those computers conducted?
A Yes, there was.
Q And are you familiar with that exam and the results of that exam?
A Yes, I am.

Q That transaction of February 1st where Charles Merritt was added as a vendor, did that occur from either the laptop of the McStays or the desktop of the McStays?
A No, it did not.
Q So, it didn’t happen from either of them?
A It did not happen from either the desktop or the laptop.
Q After a vendor, the vendor charles merritt, all lower case was added, what happened, what did you learn happened next? And you can view this chronologically as you’re looking at the records.

THE WITNESS: Okay, on February 1st, 2010, at 12:24 P.M., Joseph McStay, the user Joseph McStay added Charles Merritt as a vendor. The next activity was at 12:34 P.M., where there was a check made out to charles merritt, all lower-case letters, for the amount of $2500. The memo line on that one said: “deposit.”
Q (By Mr. Daugherty) What else did you see happen on the 1st?
A At 12:37 P.M., there was another check added to charles merritt, for the same amount, $2500. The memo line also stated: “deposit.”

if not merritt, then who?


[So it appears to me that they did a very thorough examination of those QuickBooks records. It was not a sloppy encase search. ]

Maybe. But what Quickbooks can't tell us is what computer these activities were generated from, or why they were generated. And how do we know that the QB files weren't tampered with when San Diego nosed around?

If Hanke only received a very short time period of those records he may have missed other entries that occurred at an earlier date that add to the story.

 

[Edmo]

It could be a statute of limitations issue. And it might also be that the prosecutors know they can't prove fraud.

The maximum sentence one can receive in Ca, is the DP. No need to charge a lesser crime.

 

[Edmo]

The no shoes in the grave mean nothing either imo

They was at home and was being taken somewhere to be murdered so Chase was hardly going to make them all sit down and put on shoes and waste time.

HOW does CM "round up" SM & JM w/o one of them yelling, running for help etc?

 

[Edmo]

Maybe. But what Quickbooks can't tell us is what computer these activities were generated from, or why they were generated. And how do we know that the QB files weren't tampered with when San Diego nosed around?

If Hanke only received a very short time period of those records he may have missed other entries that occurred at an earlier date that add to the story.

Huh? If they have examined the computers, they can tell what was accessed?

 

[JMarsh]

The no shoes in the grave mean nothing either imo

They was at home and was being taken somewhere to be murdered so Chase was hardly going to make them all sit down and put on shoes and waste time.

Or the killers discarded the shoes elsewhere. Not found in the graves were the Google phones both Summer and Joey had, or their id or credit cards. No one took inventory when they went missing. The family could have packed a suitcase full of clothes for all we know, and been wearing heavy sweaters and scarves, plus hiking boots. No one looked to see what was missing, so we don't know what they left the home with.

 

[Edmo]

Everyone in that family only had one pair of shoes? Really?

There are SEVERAL shoes on video, I believe it is a "News" video, watched it about 2 hours ago, that show several pairs at the front door.

 

[JMarsh]

Huh? If they have examined the computers, they can tell what was accessed?

Nope. Not if there isn't an IP address, which Quickbooks doesn't keep. And we don't know that the time and date on the McStay computers is accurate.

Don't you find it a bit odd that the state has never said what computer Chase used when he wrote those checks?

 

[missy1974]

Sure they do. Murderers are often high on meth or crack while committing the crimes. I have never seen one on trial, where the murder charges included drug charges for being high.

Is there a charge that exists for being high? I guess there would disorderly conduct, or if they were driving... under the influence... but I don't know about just being "high".

 

[JMarsh]

There are SEVERAL shoes on video, I believe it is a "News" video, watched it about 2 hours ago, that show several pairs at the front door.

So those are the only shoes the McStays owned?

 

[missy1974]

Sometimes they dont for there really is no need.
There can't be a more serious charge than 4 premeditated murders with the death penalty attached if convicted.

They were going after the meat, and potatoes and not other lessor charges.

Same thing happened in the Scott Dyleski murder trial. He had committed credit card fraud. LE investigated that, and found he had indeed done that crime , yet they only charged him with first degree murder, and he received LWOP. Another CA case.

They did however have the investigators testify to it like they have done in this case because the judge ruled it was relevant since it was occurring around the same time he plotted and murdered his victim.

Imo

hmmm

After deliberating since Wednesday, the six-man, six-woman jury in Martinez convicted Dyleski of all the charges against him: first-degree murder, burglary, a special-circumstance allegation charging that the teen committed murder during the course of a residential burglary and an enhancement for using a bludgeoning instrument.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Jury-convicts-Dyleski-of-murder-Lafayette-teen-2470391.php

From what little I just read, the burglary was part of the credit card fraud as nothing was taken to the house when he killed her. So they did charge him will offenses related to that. I don't have the time or energy today to look much further into it though lol

 

[dlkutac]

I know a lot of people won’t agree with me on this but I’m gonna say it anyway

Not charging him with fraud may come back to bite them on their arses on top of murder. He has a record spanning decades for fraud so we know he does this.

He doesn’t have a record for murder or assault or anything like that.

I definitely am getting the fraud angle so far but as to Murder I’m not 100% convinced at the moment. The fact the crime scene was so botched I still think could means he gets away with this.

I agree. I believe that's why the d.a. in the Justin Ross Harris case made sure to include the sexting with a minor charges because they could prove those and would at least have a fallback to convict him if the murder charge didn't fly.