CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[katydid23]

An expert is needed to determine what it actually means. Is the date and time correct? Did that check actually get generated on a computer not in the McStay home.

Experts are needed, always, when it comes to this type of science. The variables are just too many for the data to be accepted on face value.

One of the detectives already testified during the prelims and said that they were given a copy of the QBooks . exactly the way it was when taken with the warrant.

This info was not retrieved by Encase. It was taken from the hard drive, an exact copy of the QuickBooks archives.

So it would be very clear on which date the name Chase Merritt was added to the custom account. No expert needed to interpret that, imo.

It would be very clear that something was deleted. Or backdated. No interpretation by a paid expert needed. It is pretty cut and dry.

 

[katydid23]

If whoever was creating the check 4093 just let the popup ride (which is not known) the reason would be that 4092 had been the last input prior to creation, even if it was out of order. So, if you created 4093 at some previous time, then input 4092 later, then created again, 4093 would be generated again. If 4093 had been previously created and deleted, you would not get the normal warning that it already existed. If you had not deleted it, it would say the number already exists in the system, do you still wish to proceed. But you can fill in, overwrite, any number you want.

The deletions are the huge problem for me. Not only because I'm OCD, but because even if Joey said go ahead a print checks off the custom account, they would still need to be saved to record in the contact account since that's where the g/l was being maintained. There would need to be that report generated in custom which would allow the information to be easily input into contacts at a later time. Even if you buy the idea that Joey said let's do it this way using custom, after the information was successfully recorded in contacts, there would really be no reason to delete them from custom since it was supposed to be tracking Chase's expenditures, reimbursements, etc. plus the custom account had no purpose as far as financial statements. No need to delete. You could say Chase was forwarding the details of the checks he wrote to Joey, but then 4093 should have been recorded rather than deleted from the contacts account. Deleting means hiding in every circumstance I can think of.

Thank You. Well said. And I totally agree that it makes no sense that Joey would ask Chase to delete those checks from the custom account. That account was created to track the money owed to Chase. Why delete the amount that was just paid to him?

That ^^^ would totally defeat the purpose of that account.

 

[mrjitty]

Someone who has just brutally bludgeoned an entire family is not in their right mind. He would have been crazed at that time, not thinking clearly.

If this crime was motivated by rage and greed, then him going immediately to the bank account and writing out a check to himself makes perfect sense, to him at that time.

He didn't return to write that check. He returned for other reasons, most likely. To clean up some fingerprints, and telltale signs, to remove evidence.

Agreed

There is the temptation to think the perp stages in a methodical fashion

But actually better ideas may come to them on the fly, or they stage things but then abandon the idea.

So the trooper IMO is a sophisticated staging that was done at the end, with time to think.

But the pop corn & eggs, IMO does not match with the trooper.

Maybe he just forgot about those things or maybe they were part of a slightly different idea.

This stuff can't be walked back - because there is no reality to it.

 

[katydid23]

Or it indicates that there is something off in the interpretation of the computer forensic evidence. Encase is a basic program. It shows usage in a very linear manner. It doesn't necessarily relate the whole story of what transpired with a computer at a given time and date. For that information you need a true computer "wonk" someone who knows all the variables. I don't think the state ever employed anyone like this to analyze their Encase findings.

As in, maybe the state got it wrong.

They didnt get this Intuit info from Encase. This describes how they retrieved that QB info:



THE WITNESS: Daniel, D-a-n-i-e-l, Hanke, H-a-n-k-e.
THE COURT: Okay, you may proceed.
MR. DAUGHERTY: Thank you, your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DAUGHERTY:

Q How did you receive access to these records from Intuit?
A Intuit cloned Joseph’s accounts and made me an authorized user on the accounts. It was an online-based account, so I signed in using my information, and I could view Joseph’s account. I couldn’t alter it. I couldn’t change it or modify it. I could view and print the records, only.
Q And those are the records that we previously discussed were maintained by QuickBooks and the entries were at or near the time the events occurred?
A That’s correct.
Q Okay. With regard to both of those accounts, both the
Contact and the Custom account, how were those divvied up in the business? Was there two sides to the business, two separate businesses? Or do you know?

A Yes, there was. The original account, the Contact account that was created in 2004, had a mixture of Joseph’s personal finances as well as his business finances. The Custom account was strictly business, but he was not writing checks from that account.
Q When you write a check from QuickBooks, does it automatically debit the money from an account?
A If the user has a credit card, a bank card, somethinglike that associated with QuickBooks, it can debit. It can be linked to Pay Pal, those type of things. But Joseph basically used these accounts for an online ledger where he created invoices, he wrote checks and kept track of his money coming and going out. But it was not actually associated to a bank.
Q Did you also review or speak with someone who reviewed
Joseph’s bank accounts?
A Yes.
Q Was that at Union Bank?
A Yes.

Q Which? Did you review it or —
A Yes, I reviewed it and spoke with Detective Ryan Smith.
Q Okay. With regard to the Custom account, were any checks from, you said it was opened in January of 2008, from January of 2008 until February 1st, 2010, were any checks listed on QuickBooks or written from QuickBooks on the Custom side of the
account?
A On the Custom side, no.
Q So, all the checks during that time period were listed on
the other account?
A On the Contact account, yes.
Q Okay. On February 1st, 2010, were you able to tell from the records provided by Intuit whether there was any activity that day, on February 1st?
A Yes, I could.
Q What did you learn?

A I learned that a user — it showed that Joseph McStay logged onto the account, so that was Joseph McStay’s I.D. and password logged onto the account. And there was a vendor added, charles merritt, all lower-case letters;
Q Why was it significant to you that charles merritt was all lower case?
A When I looked at the Contact account, Charles Merritt was already a vendor in the Contact account. And there were checks written to Charles Merritt in the Contact account. And in that account it had Charles Merritt with a capital C, the rest of the
name of Charles was lower case, and there was a capital M and the rest of Merritt was lower case. In this account it was all lower case and it was a new vendor added.
Q Are you familiar — well, do you know if the McStays’ computers were completed as part of San Diego’s investigation?
A Yes, they were.
Q And how many computers did they have?
A I believe it was a desktop computer and a laptop computer.

Q Were those provided to San Bernardino County?
A Yes, they were.
Q And are you familiar with — well, was a forensic exam of those computers conducted?
A Yes, there was.
Q And are you familiar with that exam and the results of that exam?
A Yes, I am.

Q That transaction of February 1st where Charles Merritt was added as a vendor, did that occur from either the laptop of the McStays or the desktop of the McStays?
A No, it did not.
Q So, it didn’t happen from either of them?
A It did not happen from either the desktop or the laptop.
Q After a vendor, the vendor charles merritt, all lower case was added, what happened, what did you learn happened next? And you can view this chronologically as you’re looking at the records.

THE WITNESS: Okay, on February 1st, 2010, at 12:24 P.M., Joseph McStay, the user Joseph McStay added Charles Merritt as a vendor. The next activity was at 12:34 P.M., where there was a check made out to charles merritt, all lower-case letters, for the amount of $2500. The memo line on that one said: “deposit.”
Q (By Mr. Daugherty) What else did you see happen on the 1st?
A At 12:37 P.M., there was another check added to charles merritt, for the same amount, $2500. The memo line also stated: “deposit.”

if not merritt, then who?


[So it appears to me that they did a very thorough examination of those QuickBooks records. It was not a sloppy encase search. ]

 

[Edmo]

I have a question, if anyone knows? When the bodies were found, did CM have contact with JM's Father/Mother/Brother, or attend their funeral? Thanks.

 

[citygirl]

I have a question, if anyone knows? When the bodies were found, did CM have contact with JM's Father/Mother/Brother, or attend their funeral? Thanks.

Great question!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Talking about insulting to the jurors intelligence I think asking them to believe that 4 people were bludgeoned to death in the home and then finding no concrete evidence of this happening is insulting to their intelligence.

Stuff like this is why believe even if he is guilty he will get away it as it’s ridiculous.

He is not some master criminal here (we know this as he is awful at fraud) and I don’t believe for once second he could of cleaned that entire house up without leaving traces of blood evidence behind.

Hi asyousay! Nice to 'see' you posting again. I have missed you.

One of the nice thing about our court system here,and it's all jurors are allowed to have their own individual opinion of where the murders may have happened.

Not only do they not legally have to be in agreement with the prosecutor's theory of where they believe it happened, they don't have to be in agreement unanimously with each other either. The same when it comes to motive.

All they have to 100 percent agree on unanimously is CM is the one who murdered all 4, BARD, no matter where it happened.

The state has definitely proved it DID happen.

The reason for that is .....where the murders may or may not have happened is not a legal requirement that most be proved by any prosecutor in any case.

The jury knows the prosecutors weren't in the McStay home at the time when it all happened so the best they can do is have a theory of where it most likely happened based on all of the evidence now known.

Most murderers don't have nearly as long as CM had during the aftermath, clean up, and cover up stage.

Imo

 

[Longtimenoc]

Sometimes they dont for there really is no need.
There can't be a more serious charge than 4 premeditated murders with the death penalty attached if convicted.

They were going after the meat, and potatoes and not other lessor charges.

Same thing happened in the Scott Dyleski murder trial. He had committed credit card fraud. LE investigated that, and found he had indeed done that crime , yet they only charged him with first degree murder, and he received LWOP. Another CA case.

They did however have the investigators testify to it like they have done in this case because the judge ruled it was relevant since it was occurring around the same time he plotted and murdered his victim.

Imo

Cant they file theft charges later on down the line in the event Merritt beats the murder charges?

 

[Edmo]

Hi asyousay! Nice to 'see' you posting again. I have missed you.

One of the nice thing about our court system here,and it's all jurors are allowed to have their own individual opinion of where the murders may have happened.

Not only do they not legally have to be in agreement with the prosecutor's theory of where they believe it happened, they don't have to be in agreement unanimously with each other either. The same when it comes to motive.

All they have to 100 percent agree on unanimously is CM is the one who murdered all 4, BARD, no matter where it happened.

The reason for that is .....where the murders may or may not have happened is not a legal requirement that most be proved by any prosecutor in any case.

The jury knows the prosecutors weren't in the McStay home at the time when it all happened so the best they can do is have a theory of where it most likely happened based on all of the evidence now known.

Most murderers don't have nearly as long as CM had during the aftermath, clean up, and cover up stage.

Imo

They found items in the grave sites that CAME from their home. Blue Tape, Material & Hammer with paint on it.

 

[asyousay]

They found items in the grave sites that CAME from their home. Blue Tape, Material & Hammer with paint on it.

Yes but we know they were taken from the home regardless. It’s not in dispute the family was at home that evening. But actually murdering them there seems a stretch to me.

 

[Longtimenoc]

Why would he do this? He's not moving an armoire, he's moving four people he just murdered. Why return to write a check he could have written from home?

Really stop and think about that for a moment.

No evidence that he moved them that night as gruesome as it sounds

 

[fridaybaker]

Why would he do this? He's not moving an armoire, he's moving four people he just murdered. Why return to write a check he could have written from home?

Really stop and think about that for a moment.

Actually, I think it's pretty easy to imagine. The first thing he wanted to do was get the bodies away from the scene of the crime. That's his first task. Why did he "go back" and write that check. Why did he write any of these checks. I'm not sure that we can know the motive behind every check, but I would think that he may, in the rush of things, wanted some money. A check. ASAP, before anyone knew the family was dead. He was there anyway, and wanted to get it done before having to deal with the bodies. So, he gets the bodies in the truck, moves it away from the house, goes back on foot and enters from behind the house, unseen, and writes a check.

No one will ever have all the aspects of this case down as fact, but I'm still confident, after hearing what we have from the state and the defense, that Chase is guilty. It's a whole picture.

 

[Edmo]

Yes but we know they was taken from the home regardless. It’s not in dispute the family was at home that evening.

Did he gather those items, while they are alive and walking around their home, THEN take them somewhere else (Alive) to murder them?

 

[Longtimenoc]

I read an exchange between Chase and an investigator, in 2015 prelims, I believe----and Chase tells the investigator that he had 10 checks from Joey's account, in his possession. 3 of them were already signed by Joey, and 3 he signed himself, and he used them to pay for supplies.

I can totally believe that and could understand why Joey would give him checks to pay vendors. Joey would have those 10 check numbers and be able to track them.

But if Joey was 'gone' --then who would be tracking those checks?

I think there were something like 70 plus checks missing

 

[missy1974]

I'm not sure I understand. I think there wouldn't be charges precisely because they had suspicions about Chase, and wanted to put it all together. Why would they want to charge him with theft/fraud if they think it's the foundation of a murder case? I'm not trying to be obtuse or contrary -just not sure about your point.

I'm not saying separate charges, or charges prior to the murder charge. I'm talking about charges in conjunction with the murder charge. If someone commits murder during a robbery, do they get charged for robbery and murder? Or do they drop the robbery and go for the bigger crime of murder? Or when someone kidnaps and murders someone, they don't drop the kidnapping charge just because murder is the bigger charge. Once they 'put it all together', which was about a year after the bodies were found, they charged him with 4 counts of murder. If the theft/forgery was the motive, I don't know why they wouldn't want to charge him with that as well. I usually only see charges being dropped or not being charged with crimes that they don't think they can prove, so the fact that they didn't charge him does give me pause, especially considering his past criminal record. JMO

 

[missy1974]

If I remember correctly, in Baker's experience, if someone wanted the online account immediately deleted, it was to avoid IRS scrutiny.....but the defense objected before Baker could go further.

But Baker also didn't have the benefit of knowing what the call or calls the day before were about. Actually.... neither do we yet because the prosecution didn't call that customer service representative. Maybe they will?

 

[missy1974]

I know a lot of people won’t agree with me on this but I’m gonna say it anyway

Not charging him with fraud may come back to bite them on their arses on top of murder. He has a record spanning decades for fraud so we know he does this.

He doesn’t have a record for murder or assault or anything like that.

I definitely am getting the fraud angle so far but as to Murder I’m not 100% convinced at the moment. The fact the crime scene was so botched I still think could means he gets away with this.

I agree about the a$$ biting lol If they had charged him with that, I wonder if they would have been able to bring in his past history? or would have had a better chance of bringing it in.

 

[Longtimenoc]

They found items in the grave sites that CAME from their home. Blue Tape, Material & Hammer with paint on it.

And the little baby towel. Pictures of little J wrapped in it.

 

[missy1974]

I think Chase did have the email and password to the Custom account. He just didn't have the Administrators password and email.

It's really possible that the investigators aren't really all that computer savvy.

It will be interesting to see his cell phone records now that I understand where the defense is going with this. That Chase and Joey had calls back and forth within minutes of these transactions and QB calls. Really wish someone hadn't deleted Joey's voicemail messages, they may have helped tell the story. But I guess if Chase did kill them, he could have said whatever he wanted on the VM *sigh*

 

[Alf]

Did I say this was enough evidence?
NO, I said it was damning evidence because it puts Chase in the McStay home, on the 4th, when he told LE he had his last contact with Joey at 3 pm.

So it shows that Chase lied, and that he was actually in the home, at the time some say the family vanished. And he was in the home, creating checks made out to himself. He wrote out fraudulent checks totaling to 15k that week.

BBM

Didn't the brother, father, and pretty much everyone else associated with this ordeal do the exact same thing??