CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[Longtimenoc]

Agreed

There is the temptation to think the perp stages in a methodical fashion

But actually better ideas may come to them on the fly, or they stage things but then abandon the idea.

So the trooper IMO is a sophisticated staging that was done at the end, with time to think.

But the pop corn & eggs, IMO does not match with the trooper.

Maybe he just forgot about those things or maybe they were part of a slightly different idea.

This stuff can't be walked back - because there is no reality to it.

Maybe Merritt decided to go with the plan to make it seem like they bolted. It certainly worked.

 

[missy1974]

I think ever so slightly altering the accounting method is quite an understatement when we know he walked away with nearly 20k when said and done.

Also, he was aware of the family habits, perhaps he suspected they didnt get many drop in visitors at night. Or even during the day. The Mcstays seemed to live a private life. Moving the truck would give him cover for further activities.

Banks are closed in the evening so that also bought him time if by chance he feared JM of talking to them about the thefts.

Perhaps this middle-aged man drove at breakneck speed down the freeway to rob them. The murders may have occurred when he couldnt get any or enough cash which he suspected might be stashed in the home. Im just speculating.

There is evidence of torture. JMs shattered leg and smashed ribs, extension cord around his neck, perhaps the murder wanted information like "Where's the money or Im going to freaking kill you."

BBM

I would agree with this if it wasn't for the fact that McGyver had been there that week on multiple days helping Summer paint, and Chase was also there and was aware of that. So he was taking a chance IMO that McGyver wasn't there or planning on being there. JMO

 

[asyousay]

Did he gather those items, while they are alive and walking around their home, THEN take them somewhere else (Alive) to murder them?

Chase taking towels wouldn’t surprise me, Gianni had his rucksack as well which to me indicates he left that home alive.

 

[QueenBofOB]

One thing I do think Merritt told the truth about in this interview is when he said 'I was tired,' I have no doubt he was.

He had been a very busy fellow on that jam packed particular fateful day, and knew he had much more left to do.

When he finally got around to calling his girlfriend back that night did she ever say what time he finally made it home? Tia

Imo

Did he even MAKE it home that night or did he head straight to a casino?!?

 

[citygirl]

Hi asyousay! Nice to 'see' you posting again. I have missed you.

One of the nice thing about our court system here,and it's all jurors are allowed to have their own individual opinion of where the murders may have happened.

Not only do they not legally have to be in agreement with the prosecutor's theory of where they believe it happened, they don't have to be in agreement unanimously with each other either. The same when it comes to motive.

All they have to 100 percent agree on unanimously is CM is the one who murdered all 4, BARD, no matter where it happened.

The state has definitely proved it DID happen.

The reason for that is .....where the murders may or may not have happened is not a legal requirement that most be proved by any prosecutor in any case.

The jury knows the prosecutors weren't in the McStay home at the time when it all happened so the best they can do is have a theory of where it most likely happened based on all of the evidence now known.

Most murderers don't have nearly as long as CM had during the aftermath, clean up, and cover up stage.

Imo

Actually, I think it's pretty easy to imagine. The first thing he wanted to do was get the bodies away from the scene of the crime. That's his first task. Why did he "go back" and write that check. Why did he write any of these checks. I'm not sure that we can know the motive behind every check, but I would think that he may, in the rush of things, wanted some money. A check. ASAP, before anyone knew the family was dead. He was there anyway, and wanted to get it done before having to deal with the bodies. So, he gets the bodies in the truck, moves it away from the house, goes back on foot and enters from behind the house, unseen, and writes a check.

No one will ever have all the aspects of this case down as fact, but I'm still confident, after hearing what we have from the state and the defense, that Chase is guilty. It's a whole picture.

And, it seems, he was so driven to be at the house at 2 am on February 8th! This really threw me for a loop. The chances he took? Boggles my mind.

 

[JMarsh]

Thank You. Well said. And I totally agree that it makes no sense that Joey would ask Chase to delete those checks from the custom account. That account was created to track the money owed to Chase. Why delete the amount that was just paid to him?

That ^^^ would totally defeat the purpose of that account.

Because the purpose of the Custom account is to track projects not checks paid. I thought you were familiar with QBs.

 

[JMarsh]

It will be interesting to see his cell phone records now that I understand where the defense is going with this. That Chase and Joey had calls back and forth within minutes of these transactions and QB calls. Really wish someone hadn't deleted Joey's voicemail messages, they may have helped tell the story. But I guess if Chase did kill them, he could have said whatever he wanted on the VM *sigh*

I had actually noticed that occurrence a few years ago. It is true that after each of those transactions on QB Chase did call Joey immediately after. This was when Joey was alive.

 

[Longtimenoc]

And, it seems, he was so driven to be at the house at 2 am on February 8th! This really threw me for a loop. The chances he took? Boggles my mind.

Must have been comfortable there. Ugh.

 

[JMarsh]

One of the detectives already testified during the prelims and said that they were given a copy of the QBooks . exactly the way it was when taken with the warrant.

This info was not retrieved by Encase. It was taken from the hard drive, an exact copy of the QuickBooks archives.

So it would be very clear on which date the name Chase Merritt was added to the custom account. No expert needed to interpret that, imo.

It would be very clear that something was deleted. Or backdated. No interpretation by a paid expert needed. It is pretty cut and dry.

Nothing is cut and dry with computers. And we don't know what exactly the Quickbooks evidence shows, only what the state claims it shows. We'll see.

 

[missy1974]

Just to zero in on this great point

The defence has the only witness in the whole wide world who can testify to this exact point. What did Joey tell him he could do?

What will cut no ice with me is Counsel claiming Joey allowed this and that without that witness testifying.

Such suggestions should be defenestrated immediately as wild speculation when the very witness who knows the truth is sitting with defence counsel!

I was thinking about that this morning... wouldn't it be great if he testified?LOL

 

[Edmo]

Chase taking towels wouldn’t surprise me, Gianni had his rucksack as well which to me indicates he left that home alive.

The backpack: Maybe he was wearing it when CM bashed his skull in? He would NOT be wearing it if he was in the bathtub, as some think they were killed in the tub, IMO.

Children get "attached" to items, whatever they may be and carry/have them in their possession all day long. I have 3 children and a grandbaby, those "items," whatever they might be, usually get "carried" until they literally fall apart. I've experienced this.

 

[JMarsh]

Yup. That's why they have to convince the jury that Summer gave the kids popcorn for breakfast,

Two toddlers, a healthy food easy to prepare and a diversion, popcorn is a 24/7 food when you have young children.

 

[missy1974]

I have seen a lot of murder cases where they don't bother with the lesser crimes committed during the murder. If you are trying to hand out the Death Penalty or Life Without Parole, it seems petty to put energy and time and resources into a misdemeanor charge, simultaneously. JMO

Unless that other crime is essential to the motive.

I'm open to them not doing it because it was a smart move... or because this is something typically done... but I can't say I recall where any charges were not laid or where charges were dropped for any other reason than, they just couldn't prove it.

 

[JMarsh]

An 'expert' needs to interpret what it 'means' that' chase merritt ' was add-on on Feb 1st to the custom account?

I think it is a fact, not something that needs interpretation. Both sides will give their own spin on what it means.

What time period of the Quickbooks activity did Hanke examine?

 

[Longtimenoc]

Did he gather those items, while they are alive and walking around their home, THEN take them somewhere else (Alive) to murder them?

No shoes.

 

[JMarsh]

Agreed

There is the temptation to think the perp stages in a methodical fashion

But actually better ideas may come to them on the fly, or they stage things but then abandon the idea.

So the trooper IMO is a sophisticated staging that was done at the end, with time to think.

But the pop corn & eggs, IMO does not match with the trooper.

Maybe he just forgot about those things or maybe they were part of a slightly different idea.

This stuff can't be walked back - because there is no reality to it.

What evidence is there that this occurred this way? Where is the neighbor who saw someone entering and leaving the home? Where is the evidence of someone staging any of this. For all we know Joseph drove the Trooper to the border and the family was abducted from someplace in that shopping mall.

 

[JMarsh]

No shoes.

No shoes in the graves. We don't know what the family was wearing when they left the home.

 

[citygirl]

Chase taking towels wouldn’t surprise me, Gianni had his rucksack as well which to me indicates he left that home alive.

Yes. The little backpack would lead one to believe that. My next thought is a sweet lamb being led to the slaughter. Hard to even ponder.

 

[Edmo]

I'm not saying separate charges, or charges prior to the murder charge. I'm talking about charges in conjunction with the murder charge. If someone commits murder during a robbery, do they get charged for robbery and murder? Or do they drop the robbery and go for the bigger crime of murder? Or when someone kidnaps and murders someone, they don't drop the kidnapping charge just because murder is the bigger charge. Once they 'put it all together', which was about a year after the bodies were found, they charged him with 4 counts of murder. If the theft/forgery was the motive, I don't know why they wouldn't want to charge him with that as well. I usually only see charges being dropped or not being charged with crimes that they don't think they can prove, so the fact that they didn't charge him does give me pause, especially considering his past criminal record. JMO

Usually, a Prosecutor will charge as much as they can. It depends on the crime: IE; Using a firearm in the commission of a Felony, etc. Using that firearm "could" increase your sentence, in years of punishment.

Killing a family of 4, no matter how you did it, is an automatic DP case, IMO. Whether you're a career criminal or not.

 

[JMarsh]

Maybe Merritt decided to go with the plan to make it seem like they bolted. It certainly worked.

But where is the evidence of this? It's wonderful to spitball creative possibilities but at some point some evidence has to exist that any of this occurred.