CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

[missy1974]

You are a lot of fun to talk to, but I can tell you don't know about transfer DNA, and without that knowledge this discussion really isn't possible.

I think the witness, Jones, referred to it as secondary DNA, I will listen again later. In articles, or whatever, I have read it as transfer DNA and secondary DNA.

 

[mom2chloe]

Right, but if that is believable for him to be driving the vehicle, is it not also believable that if the defense uses what they said in their OS's, that they shook hands (Joey's right hand), Joey gets in the truck (using his left hand to open the door), grabs the steering wheel with his right hand, and then puts the vehicle into gear again with his right hand... THIS would leave transfer DNA.

I mean, this criminalist just said the same thing in testimony... so either he is making it up too... or it's a believable theory. JMO

But who is to say they shook hands at the CFA meeting? I’m not certain but it wouldn’t seem unreasonable that what they had to discuss that day may not have been initiated with a handshake. I wouldn’t shake the hand of someone I knew was/ or suspected of stealing from me.

 

[JMarsh]

I think the witness, Jones, referred to it as secondary DNA, I will listen again later. In articles, or whatever, I have read it as transfer DNA and secondary DNA.

DNA evidence is not incontrovertible all on its own. There are a lot of factors that have to be watched for.

 

[JMarsh]

But who is to say they shook hands at the CFA meeting? I’m not certain but it wouldn’t seem unreasonable that what they had to discuss that day may not have been initiated with a handshake. I wouldn’t shake the hand of someone I knew or suspected of stealing from me.

Friends of Joey could testify as to whether Joey was in the habit of shaking hands. Or if an expert were to say that this is the most probable explanation given where the DNA is and where it isn't.

And the DNA doesn't have to be transferred only by direct touch. Merritt could have handed an object to Joey and if his DNA was on that, that could also be the source of a transfer.

 

[Tortoise]

Right, but if that is believable for him to be driving the vehicle, is it not also believable that if the defense uses what they said in their OS's, that they shook hands (Joey's right hand), Joey gets in the truck (using his left hand to open the door), grabs the steering wheel with his right hand, and then puts the vehicle into gear again with his right hand... THIS would leave transfer DNA.

I mean, this criminalist just said the same thing in testimony... so either he is making it up too... or it's a believable theory. JMO

I don't think a finding of guilt will depend on Chase driving the Trooper.

But, I would say if we exclude Joey or Summer as the drivers of the Trooper on its last ever outing to the border, after their murders, we look to the only other dna contributor in the drivers seat, the last driver, and he was obviously trying very hard not to leave his dna behind - hence the trace evidence and absence of evidence on the left hand controls. If there was a different killer/driver where is the 3rd unidentified trace or minor contributor? There isn't one. It would be hard to drive that distance without leaving anything behind.

JMO

 

[JMarsh]

Or he was driving the Trooper. There is NO way to tell, either way, IMO

That is basically what I've been saying this whole time. And it will be for the jury to decide.

 

[missy1974]

But who is to say they shook hands at the CFA meeting? I’m not certain but it wouldn’t seem unreasonable that what they had to discuss that day may not have been initiated with a handshake. I wouldn’t shake the hand of someone I knew was/ or suspected of stealing from me.

Who knows. And it didn't have to be a handshake, it could have been a piece of paper, a pen, or even the key.

Some people, mainly men, in my experience, are hand shakers. We don't know if either Chase or Joey were handshakers?

Everyone is still assuming this meeting was to fire Chase, or whatever, I have yet to see evidence of that. JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Was it the same amount as well?

He took more the next day, it went from 4,000 to 4,500.

 

[missy1974]

I don't think a finding of guilt will depend on Chase driving the Trooper.

But, I would say if we exclude Joey or Summer as the drivers of the Trooper on its last ever outing to the border, after their murders, we look to the only other dna contributor in the drivers seat, the last driver, and he was obviously trying very hard not to leave his dna behind - hence the trace evidence and absence of evidence on the left hand controls. If there was a different killer/driver where is the 3rd unidentified trace or minor contributor? There isn't one. It would be hard to drive that distance without leaving anything behind.

JMO

Or it was transfer DNA from meeting with Chase hours previously.

 

[Bernina]

If you don't know what transfer DNA is, there's really not a whole lot more I can discuss with you on this.

Transfer or direct, NOBODY knows how it got there, so all of this is just redundant. It is was it is, DNA in the driver's area of the Trooper, nothing more, nothing less.
Unless someone has a picture of CM and JM shaking hands on 2/4, or CM driving the Trooper on 2/8, what's the point? Neither can be proved or disproved. It's up to the jury to take ALL of the evidence and make their OWN decision.

 

[JMarsh]

Could Secondary DNA Transfer Falsely Place Someone at the Scene of a Crime?
Cale CM1,2, Earll ME2, Latham KE2, Bush GL1.
Author information

Abstract
"The occurrence of secondary DNA transfer has been previously established. However, the transfer of DNA through an intermediary has not been revisited with more sensitive current technologies implemented to increase the likelihood of obtaining results from low-template/low-quality samples. This study evaluated whether this increased sensitivity could lead to the detection of interpretable secondary DNA transfer profiles. After two minutes of hand to hand contact, participants immediately handled assigned knives. Swabbings of the knives with detectable amounts of DNA were amplified with the Identifiler(®) Plus Amplification Kit and injected on a 3130xl. DNA typing results indicated that secondary DNA transfer was detected in 85% of the samples. In five samples, the secondary contributor was either the only contributor or the major contributor identified despite never coming into direct contact with the knife...

...This study demonstrates the risk of assuming that DNA recovered from an object resulted from direct contact."

Could Secondary DNA Transfer Falsely Place Someone at the Scene of a Crime? - PubMed - NCBI

 

[citygirl]

It's clear enough haha

I have gone back into the old threads here. Unfortunately, there is a huge amount of discussion from the old CourtTV/InSession board that is no longer around That's where I posted about this case when they first went missing. Mikey came and posted with us as well, but I don't recall exactly when it was, but it was definitely within the first weeks/months (I recall because some of the posters actually went and handed out flyers at the border and were helping him and the family with this).

But just to put the timing into perspective....

I was able to find an article in the wayback machine from March 31st. Where this was stated:

Susan Blake, McStay’s mother, said she had a sense something was wrong before the family vanished. “Joe told me he wasn’t feeling good that day,” she said. “His equilibrium wasn’t right and I felt that something was wrong.”

New Leads on the Missing McStay Family - New evidence has surfaced on the whereabouts of the disappearance of the McStay family suggesting they may have planned to intentionally disappear in Mexico authorities said. Joseph McStay his wife Summe...

A quote from another article, which I was unable to get on the wayback site but is in an old post here...

"My son had been sick since last August and he’s normally a very healthy person," said Blake. "He’s an excellent surfer and soccer player. I even went to the hospital with him to try and see what was wrong; we thought maybe it was stress."

This is when the speculation began here at WS's. You can go read the comments.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...-2-children-bonsall-4-feb-2010-3.99105/page-6

I feel like I knew about his illness before that from IS board through Mikey... but can't be certain. I may try to access my old bookmarks later and see what I can find ... I will have to pull out my old laptop for that (my new one didn't like me trying to get into them last time I tried LOL)

Interestingly enough, I also saw some posts that mention that Summer's mom believed it was Summer in the border video.

Yep. The IS boards. That's when the family bared their souls thinking it would help them find answers. I remember thinking this is a big mistake!

 

[missy1974]

Yep. The IS boards. That's when the family bared their souls thinking it would help them find answers. I remember thinking this is a big mistake!

Yep, but you know... they did get help from there as well, and I am pretty sure some posters are still close to the family.

I think we got a lot of information from Mikey before the media (and here) did. I really wish I had copied all of that If you were there, I'm sure you recall all the speculation, I know I'm not crazy LOL

 

[citygirl]

Oh, I have no doubt about that JMarsh. Stress? I recall allergies were a big issue for him as well. But back in 2010 and until the bodies were found, lots of theories were out there, one of them was that he was being poisoned. Surely I cannot be the only one that remembers this LOL

I remember it but I never bought into it. MOO.

 

[citygirl]

He did call. The length of time of the calls suggest that he left VM's. The problem with the VM's is that they were deleted before SD got a hold of them!

I know it has been said that he never called... but Chase's phone records do show calls to Joey, not as many as "normal" though.

Who deleted them?

 

[Alisajo]

Exactly.

Yet the Defence retrieved DNA from the graves after 4 years.

 

[citygirl]

Yep, that's how I recall it happening... first we found out about her age and name changes... it made her an easy target for criticism, even her housecleaning abilities did. Then the border video comes out and at the least, her Mom says it's her, but everyone thinks it's NOT Joey.... the Trooper was their truck pulling out... so many different elements at the time.

It was more than that. People she had dealt with in the past. The whole saga with Joey's eldest son. I must admit I entertained way back then that she was the reason for their demise. I think she was in a way but not the way I thought.Her relationship with her own family.

David Call was Chase’s court appointed adviser earlier in the case.

Snip

“They didn’t find any blood in that house. They found one drop, and it belonged to the new owner,” Call said.


Evidence in McStay family murder case to be revealed Tuesday in court – San Bernardino Sun

WOW!

 

[JMarsh]

Yet the Defence retrieved DNA from the graves after 4 years.

Yes. Apparently they did.

 

[missy1974]

Yet the Defence retrieved DNA from the graves after 4 years.

Maybe the prosecution should ask the defense to retest the Trooper for them? ;-)

There was DNA found on the passenger door. Actually a mixture of 3 individuals. No conclusions were made though.

 

[JMarsh]

Maybe the prosecution should ask the defense to retest the Trooper for them? ;-)

There was DNA found on the passenger door. Actually a mixture of 3 individuals. No conclusions were made though.

interesting