CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

[oceanblueeyes]

Or, if he was on a losing streak, at least he have some cash to give to CJ towards the rent. He may have written so many bad checks on his own acct., that the landlord wouldn't accept any more.

That's a good theory.

Imo, CM spent most of his adult life being the kind of individual who robs Peter in order to pay Paul.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You would think he could. *Here, I picture someone furiously shaking a piggy bank upside down* One would have to wonder, where's his money going? Why am I having to buy his family groceries, pay their rent?

Just reading this makes me feel so sad. It shows how truly giving, and compassionate Joey truly was. It seems he cared far more about CJ, and their children's wellbeing, than CM ever did.

It's so painfully obvious CM targeted Joey because he knew how much he cared about others.

For CM everything was all about HIM, but he knew what mattered most to Joey was helping others.

I think he even conned Joey in this aspect. He knew if he told Joey he couldn't pay his rent or buy groceries to feed his family, that Joey would.

Imo, Joey couldn't stand the thought of Cathy, and the children having no place to stay nor food to eat.

I have no doubt Cathy has thought back how Joey was there so many times to help them.

As more, and more selfish acts of CM become known, she will come to know the money she thought had come from Merritt back then, was really from Joey's compassionate gifts that had kept them afloat many times.

It seems such bad things happen to very good hearted people.

Imo

 

[mrjitty]

Just reading this makes me feel so sad. It shows how truly giving, and compassionate Joey truly was. It seems he cared far more about CJ, and their children's wellbeing, than CM ever did.

It's so painfully obvious CM targeted Joey because he knew how much he cared about others.

For CM everything was all about HIM, but he knew what mattered most to Joey was helping others.

I think he even conned Joey in this aspect. He knew if he told Joey he couldn't pay his rent or buy groceries to feed his family, that Joey would.

Imo, Joey couldn't stand the thought of Cathy, and the children having no place to stay nor food to eat.

I have no doubt Cathy has thought back how Joey was there so many times to help them.

As more, and more selfish acts of CM become known, she will come to know the money she thought had come from Merritt back then, was really from Joey's compassionate gifts that had kept them afloat many times.

It seems such bad things happen to very good hearted people.

Imo

This is why I think Chase told more lies at the lunch meeting

it's the go to strategy for this personality type

I have my own pet sociopath and they will lie about stuff even when we both know they are lying

It's quite amazing to experience close up

 

[mrjitty]

That's a good theory.

Imo, CM spent most of his adult life being the kind of individual who robs Peter in order to pay Paul.

Also this personality type a prone to taking wild risks. The fraud could easily have been triggered by feelings of entitlement - where Chase felt he deserved more than he was getting

 

[oceanblueeyes]

So what about the Trooper then. Is the defense incorrect in saying that is touch DNA, from Joey shaking Chses's hand after lunch?

Good point. See I have problems believing anything supported out of thin air.

Where is the supporting evidence that they even shook hands?

It's hard for me to imagine at the end of a contentious meeting, with the entire family murdered just hours later, ended in a friendly hankshake. It defies all logic, imo

So where is the good faith based evidence supporting a handshake even occurrred between these two men, with one now murdered by the same man who is now the accused?

The jury is going to question why it was found in three important areas. They are going to dissect where his DNA should have been found and wasn't if its merely transferred DNA from a handshake. Imo

Imo. In the end, they will go with what is most logical, and reasonable about CMs DNA being found on the Trooper when combining all of the evidence in its totality.

Imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Also this personality type a prone to taking wild risks. The fraud could easily have been triggered by feelings of entitlement - where Chase felt he deserved more than he was getting

How true, he felt entitled to do as he wished in every facet of his life even if it hurt others.

It didnt matter to this heartless entitled sociopath whether his family had a roof over their heads or food to eat.

They were there only to make him look better. Sort of like serial killers when many of them are married with children.

Iirc, even BTK said he knew having a wife, and children helped disguise what he was doing, and who he really was.

CMs world was extremely small because the only one important in it, was himself, and no one else. His track record shows that to be true.

Imo, he saw Cathy, and their children as mere ornaments that he felt made him appear in a better light.

Appearances are always important to sociopaths. Not how things really are, but what they appear to be. It helps them to be able to continue to hide behind their mask of deception.

I felt early on CM is sociopath when I saw his fakery exposed on the CNN interview.

They have to fake normal responses.

He had no clue that normal people wouldn't ever gleefully disparage their best friend's wife, disparaging her to everyone he knew would be giving him their full attention.

Normal people wouldnt ever do that. Even if true, which we now know it wasnt, they wouldn't ever air any private matters whatsoever, when worried about them all being missing.

True best friends just doesn't do that, but he did, and he enjoyed every sickening moment of it.

But this is exactly what a murdering sociopath would do when given the opportunity.

He was already placing blame on someone else he knew he had murdered in cold blood, while trying to hide his own deep dark secrets.

Yet, he thought it was perfectly acceptable normal behavior, when in truth it was bizarre, and just like what a heartless sociopath would do.

Jmo

 

[jash]

May I suggest that, because Summer was planning to re-enter the real estate market, she thought that a working knowledge of Spanish would be to her advantage in that regard.

This is precisely what the E! Investigates program reported Summer's friends said.

 

[Cricket28]

Catching up and replying to posts from a little way back....
*yes I have read Patrick's book. It is a good and easy read. But I didn't really learn any new information. He kept promising a new book when the trial is over.
*When I attended the trial on day 9 CM's oldest daughter was there. She is very beautiful and seemed very nice. Smiling at everyone and very polite. She sat in the first row right behind the DT. She even had conversations with McGee. No contact with CM at all. All though if he turned around they would probably bump heads...LOL. The court room is that small. She left when the testimony got to the bone information.

MOO

 

[Cricket28]

well I mean people can have more than one pair of 'ugly' boots

LOL

 

[Bernina]

I’d like to know if any other DNA apart from Chase’s was found in the trooper? Was the trooper ‘clean’ apart from his DNA? Was any of the family’s DNA found or just Chase’s? Does anyone know? TIA

JM, CM, and Summer. Chase was included on the steering wheel, console, and gear shift.
The rest of the vehicle was also swabbed but *if I recall* no other Chase.
I also don't recall anyone else's DNA being found except those 3. The feed was really messed up and I didn't go back to re-watch it on Youtube.

 

[Cricket28]

There were checks missing from Joey's office. It's easy to print a check. The hardest part is to figure out which directions to place the checks in the printer. I don't know why anyone would need an ms office template when using QB's, yet the search history shows that. Evidently, the print issues, if there were any, were resolved as evidenced by the printed checks deposited or cashed by Chase. I don't remember who testified to the missing check's, but someone did.

Welcome! And thanks for your knowledgeable input!!!

 

[missy1974]

Prosecution opening speech said the top cheque (presumably unused) in Joey's office was #4245. So that seems to answer one of your questions - the cheque numbers are pre-printed on the cheques.

Thank you! Didn't realize it was in OS's and didn't even look there!!!! LOL I will post what I have from Hanke's testimony, I even have times (from the youtube video). The numbers are not far off, and now I am curious to know what numbers Joey had used last in the Contact account.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Catching up and replying to posts from a little way back....
*yes I have read Patrick's book. It is a good and easy read. But I didn't really learn any new information. He kept promising a new book when the trial is over.
*When I attended the trial on day 9 CM's oldest daughter was there. She is very beautiful and seemed very nice. Smiling at everyone and very polite. She sat in the first row right behind the DT. She even had conversations with McGee. No contact with CM at all. All though if he turned around they would probably bump heads...LOL. The court room is that small. She left when the testimony got to the bone information.

MOO

So none of his other children have been in the courtroom?

BTW, how many children in total does CM have, and with how many women?

Tia

 

[missy1974]

Amazing how this will be the DNA of "the real killers" yet everything else is transfer DNA

That's not true haha IF say they found CM's brother's DNA.... that could be transfer DNA as well... and then I would consider that Merritt used his brothers truck possibly? It could place him there too... but if they can't "prove" that, the pro's can say 'how else would it get there', oh look... Merritt was with his brother blah blah blah! Transfer DNA can be used on both sides (I use CM's brother, only because it's been said that they took a DNA sample back in December, my conclusion is that they got the preliminary results back from the defense on what they found?)

Because other items were in the graves, like blankets, hammer, backpack, tie's... I am not sure if this DNA will add up to much. In another case that I have followed, sometimes the conclusion is that DNA found on items, could also come from employee's at the places things were bought.

 

[missy1974]

Catching up and replying to posts from a little way back....
*yes I have read Patrick's book. It is a good and easy read. But I didn't really learn any new information. He kept promising a new book when the trial is over.
*When I attended the trial on day 9 CM's oldest daughter was there. She is very beautiful and seemed very nice. Smiling at everyone and very polite. She sat in the first row right behind the DT. She even had conversations with McGee. No contact with CM at all. All though if he turned around they would probably bump heads...LOL. The court room is that small. She left when the testimony got to the bone information.

MOO

I sure hope you get a chance to go back We are getting no information about the inside of the courtroom! Do you recall the reporter's name you were talking to the last time you were there? Is he tweeting at all about the trial? I am missing "inside" tweets.

 

[missy1974]

JM, CM, and Summer. Chase was included on the steering wheel, console, and gear shift.
The rest of the vehicle was also swabbed but *if I recall* no other Chase.
I also don't recall anyone else's DNA being found except those 3. The feed was really messed up and I didn't go back to re-watch it on Youtube.

He was a minor contributor on the steering wheel. The console/gear shift/controls was a collective swab and he was a trace contributor IIRC. No way to tell if it came from the console, the gear shift or the controls, or all 3 combined to get trace. Chase's DNA was not found on the doors, inside and out. I think they also swabbed the back passengers of the doors, again, these were collective swabs.

 

[missy1974]

So none of his other children have been in the courtroom?

BTW, how many children in total does CM have, and with how many women?

Tia

I don't know their ages, but I would guess that the younger 2 are still teenagers? I wouldn't really expect them to be there (not without their mom). I also wonder if Jarvis is even allowed to be there since she is going to be a witness? <<< I don't know how that works? Since she's really not considered family?

 

[Force Ten]

Good point. See I have problems believing anything supported out of thin air.

Where is the supporting evidence that they even shook hands?

It's hard for me to imagine at the end of a contentious meeting, with the entire family murdered just hours later, ended in a friendly hankshake. It defies all logic, imo

So where is the good faith based evidence supporting a handshake even occurrred between these two men, with one now murdered by the same man who is now the accused?

The jury is going to question why it was found in three important areas. They are going to dissect where his DNA should have been found and wasn't if its merely transferred DNA from a handshake. Imo

Imo. In the end, they will go with what is most logical, and reasonable about CMs DNA being found on the Trooper when combining all of the evidence in its totality.

Imo

Good points. We don't know if they shook hands but, to play devil's advocate, we don't know exactly how Merritt's DNA got there as well. The prosecution expects the jury to imagine certain scenarios based on their evidence, shouldn't that be granted to the defense as well? The answer may be with the extra padlock key though. Why does Joseph have it?

In doing that, it is hard for me to believe Merritt's DNA could be on so many controls and consider it got there by by transfer.

Asking myself the question, was there minor DNA from him in or areas of the vehicle, or was it trace?

 

[missy1974]

The following is from Hanke's testimony Day 19 Part 2 and 3. He went into the audit history of the cheques. The blue text is from cross exam. The red is the cheque info and cheques deposited.

Feb 1st - $2500 - To be printed

33:50 12:34 added cheque no cheque number, says to be printed

Feb 1st

QB cheques edited 12:34 ended at 12:52

Merritt phone records - Joey calling CM 9min 56sec….. 11 minutes after the QB's activity. 1;03pm​

(missing some testimony from after lunch)

Feb 2nd - ?

35:12 $2495 - charles merritt (was Cheque #4093 in QBs) CHEQUE NUMBER 4240 DEPOSITED

Feb 2nd:

11:27am cheque added

11:29am cheque added

both deleted at 11:37 ​

Merritt calling Joey - 10:56am, multiple calls for insignificant amounts of time, seconds.

Then called at 11:46am, Merritt to Joey 3min 24seconds…. 9 minutes after the last cheque was adjusted.

12:04pm another call, merritt to joey over 13 minutes.​

Feb 4 - charles merritt $4000 - says to be printed

37:33 - Feb 5 - $4500 - charles merritt says to be printed (#4095)

· 38:19 12:12 same cheque as above? edited to cheque number 4093 shows printed

· 38:46 12:14 same cheque still … edited the cheque number, says to be printed

· 39:02 12:16 edit cheque number 4093 shows printed

· 39:10 12:17 took out cheque number, to be printed

· 39:24 12:17 cheque number 4093 printed

· 39:49 12:22 cheque number deleted, date changed, to be printed

· 40:11 12:23 cheque 4095 printed

· Deleted at 12:38

computer generated cheque 2/4/10 Cheque number 4237 (copy of cheque) DEPOSITED

Feb 4th

cheque added 7:59, deleted at 8:05

Joey calls Merritt at 8:28pm 23 minutes after cheque was deleted.

re-direct - shows how the call didn't show on Merritt's phone

re-cross - 5:47 and 5:48 Merritt records show 2 calls, one connected, one not connected. Only shows once on McStay's. Can you explain? no I can't. ​

43:14 Feb 5 - $1650 12:21 Metro - to be printed. 4094 on the top

· 43:59 12:21 edit cheque #4094 printed

· 12:39 deleted

computer generated cheque to MSM $1650 Cheque number 4236 DEPOSITED



45:54 Feb 5 $250 metro 12:25 4094 at the top, to be printed

· 46:43 12:26 - cheque number added 4095, printed (?)

· 12:28 deleted

computer generated cheque to MSM $250 Cheque number 4238 DEPOSITED


47:54 Feb 5 12:29 says 4097 at the top. $6505 charles merritt to be printed

· 48:43 12:29 Cheque number 4097 printed

· 12:38 deleted

Deposited at Bank of America on the 5th. Didn't show cheque? <<< @55:14 says he made a mistake

50:30 Feb 5 12:23 dated 2/4/10 $2350 charles merritt to be printed

· 50:59 12:33 cheque number added 4096 printed

· 12:35 cheque number deleted to be printed

· 12:37 deleted

computer generated cheque from EIP to CM 2/4/10 $2350 Cheque #4242 DEPOSITED

Feb 5th

first cheque added at 12:06pm last one deleted 12:39pm sign out at 12:40

Call - 10:59am Chase to Joey. 55 seconds.

Call - 12:49 pm Chase to Joey 53 seconds​

53:13 Feb 8 2:20 charles merritt $6500 to be printed dated 2/4/10 no cheque #

· 53:44 Cheque # added 4096 printed

· 54:07 2:24 cheque number deleted to be printed

· 54:18 2:25 deleted

computer generated cheque from EIP to CM for $6500 2/4/10 Cheque number #4241 DEPOSITED

Feb 8th

Cheque added at 2:20pm deleted at 2:25pm

Call - Chase to Joey 1:55pm 1 min 12 seconds. 25 minutes before the cheque was added.

Calls to QB's a little after 3pm. 1 hour 47 minute phone call to QB's - after that another call from Merritt to Joey (no time given)​

 

[missy1974]

Good points. We don't know if they shook hands but, to play devil's advocate, we don't know exactly how Merritt's DNA got there as well. The prosecution expects the jury to imagine certain scenarios based on their evidence, shouldn't that be granted to the defense as well? The answer may be with the extra padlock key. Why doe Joseph have it?

In doing that, it is hard for me to believe Merritt's DNA could be on so many controls and consider it got there by by transfer.

Asking myself the question, was there minor DNA from him in or areas of the vehicle, or was it trace?

BBM This!

I have an issue with how they took the swabs!!!!! I wonder if anyone (pro's or defense) has considered going back and doing separate swabs now? They did a collective swab .... friggen useless IMO.

I never thought of the padlock key. But I have considered that if they were sitting there for 1-2 hours, going over paperwork, etc, that even touching the same pen or paperwork can do it. Especially if saliva is involved... and they had been eating... did Chase lick his fingers? LOL I know it sounds silly... but just go and read about transfer DNA, look at studies, these are the studies that have been done.

The DNA could be transfer DNA and Chase STILL drove the Trooper. He could very well have put on gloves when he got into it and drove it, he would have no idea that something earlier in the day left those minor/trace amounts. He could have thought he had the DNA thing covered by wearing the gloves. It would explain why there is none on the inside/outside of the door. <<< ETA: this would also explain why no fingerprints, if none were found.