CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[everybodhi]

Agree with all of this except I think you meant “supine,” not prone ;-). I remember it with “supine, looking up at the pines.” Good CPR commonly breaks ribs and leaves bruising, so (as you said) it doesn’t seem like it was attempted.

But certainly anyone with training knows the only thing that would stop the over heated core that is shutting down the brain and causing organ failure is immersion in cool water, preferably ice water.
Pumping the heart and mouth to mouth won't save you from heat stroke.
Drinking water won't even help a soaring body temp.

 

[HannahJJJ]

I've read that his parents are in UK. Where are her parents? It was a family friend, and not the mother/father of Ellen and the grandparents of this precious baby girl (whom I'm assuming they both adored). Family friend first reported them missing...that was what, going into the second day that they had set out for this hike (a hike with brutal conditions for a toddler, and a heavy-furred dog).

 

[RedHaus]

Ellen was a Red Cross instructor and also taught disaster preparedness, so if Jonathan, the baby or dog was overcome before her (likely, as she was very healthy and into yoga), it doesn’t make sense to me that she wouldn’t have made more progress in getting help.

I've actually sadly imagined EC did not walk or even stumble the 30y up the trail from her family. IMO she may have crawled. She may have tried to save her family and one by one they perished. By then she realized she was in deep trouble.

 

[HannahJJJ]

I've actually sadly imagined EC did not walk or even stumble the 30y up the trail from her family. IMO she may have crawled. She may have been trying to save her family and one by one they perished. By then she realized she was in deep trouble and barely functional.

Yes. I have also imagined her crawling to get help, help in whatever was going on in that tragic situation.

 

[MaryG12]

I keep going back to this...why would parents take their one-year-old baby girl (and an especially oh-so-tiny and delicate baby girl) into a situation in which temperatures would be, what around 100 degrees, at even 10 in the morn? And the dog...her other "baby", thick furred, into that dangerously hot milieu, why? As I said, I keep going back to this.

You are not the only one wondering about this!

And seeing that lightning was present when the family went out hiking - was this lightning forecast?

Lightning really is a strange yet intriguing force of nature. For example, it can take place when it snows although it is a rare occurence.

What is thundersnow? Explaining this rare winter storm occurrence

Has it been revealed if the entire family plus the dog all died at once?

Then I have my own thunder and lightning story that took place 4-5 years ago. Pre-pandemic, one day I bicycled to work because I only live about 3 miles away. On my way out it is cloudy and I heard thunder, all of a sudden I'm in the parking lot when BOOM a huge crack of thunder sounded in my ears. The lightning was behind me (not visible to my line of sight). My hands were gripped onto the rubber portion covering the metal handlebars but my toes dropped to the ground so I would not keel over. To this day I don't know if my bicycle received a tiny "shock" from the lightning but it did feel like it was hit by something.

I sped home that day without getting wet but yes it was a scary incident!

Strangest thing was this: it felt like the lightning

 

[Countem]

“The family also had a backpack with a bladder that held a small amount of water, the sheriff said.”

'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail

BBM

We do not know what a “small amount,” entails, but it could be that there was not enough water left to douse on a person or dog in heat-related distress (just dribbles at the bottom of the container).

There being a “small amount” of water left does not exclude that they fell victim to heat- and exertion-related distress.

MOO

 

[MaryG12]

Replying to
@mgafni
With the help of the Mariposa sheriff, we were able to create a more accurate map of the suspected hike the family took. And sadly where they were found. https://sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Not-one-clue-The-mystery-is-only-deepening-16401921.php…



7:31 PM · Aug 20, 2021

Thank you for sharing that map of where the family was found.

 

[MaryG12]

Ellen was a Red Cross instructor and also taught disaster preparedness, so if Jonathan, the baby or dog was overcome before her (likely, as she was very healthy and into yoga), it doesn’t make sense to me that she wouldn’t have made more progress in getting help.

Becoming a member of the lightning camp, the problem with being struck by lightning is it is not something one can prepare for. It's purely a freak accident of nature, it's an even that just happens.

If it is discovered the entire family did die at the same time, including the dog, no burns on their skin discovered, a possible ground current would explain what happened.

From what I am reading thus far, a lightning strike seems the most logical cause of death to me.

 

[Countem]

I've read that his parents are in UK. Where are her parents? It was a family friend, and not the mother/father of Ellen and the grandparents of this precious baby girl (whom I'm assuming they both adored). Family friend first reported them missing...that was what, going into the second day that they had set out for this hike (a hike with brutal conditions for a toddler, and a heavy-furred dog).

Her family has not come forward publicly and has not discussed their location publicly with MSM. Therefore, we must be respectful of their privacy.

I will quote my previous post, however.

All family dynamics are different, and there are many circumstances that lead to family members not hearing from each other for days or weeks, especially when people move away and start their own families. Physical distance can play a part, too. For instance, the father’s family lives primarily in Europe. We cannot fault the family for not notifying law enforcement sooner, especially if periods of silence were normal. MOO.

 

[minazoe]

isn't there a lightening map from that day? I think the weather bureau could pinpoint lightening strikes at that location from their live map recordings.

 

[EndoraXplorer]

I believe that EC grew up in Southern California / Orange County (this has been mentioned in MSM). She has several public IG posts about visits from her parents or the parents being in town (e.g., Login • Instagram). So my guess is the parents might still be in SoCal, rather than local.

The whole topic of why weren't they declared missing until 11pm on Monday haunts me. I actually went and looked at the Mariposa County Daily Sheriff and Booking Report for Monday, August 16, 2021 (Mariposa County Daily Sheriff and Booking Report for Monday, August 16, 2021). Sure enough, there it is at 23:00:44 - "Missing persons" in "Hites Cove."

As I wrote before, you can declare someone missing at any time in California, though many people do not realize this. (California Missing Persons). Considering how quickly LE found the vehicle, I wish they'd been declared missing at 11am, not 11pm. It probably wouldn't have made a difference, but as I said, it haunts me.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I keep going back to this...why would parents take their one-year-old baby girl (and an especially oh-so-tiny and delicate baby girl) into a situation in which temperatures would be, what around 100 degrees, at even 10 in the morn? And the dog...her other "baby", thick furred, into that dangerously hot milieu, why? As I said, I keep going back to this.

I'm not sure we will ever understand this, MOO. I think they wanted to go on a hike and for whatever reason, like with Kreycik, the heat did not register as a risk, or not a significant one. Yet, the actual experience had to be very hot and sweaty for the adults as well.

I think that the Gobi tour trip and Burning Man had given them a false sense of "transcending" hot experiences. She posted of past close calls or issues with altitude or heat but they did not seem to become more risk averse. I don't understand the not turning around but maybe they prided themselves on finishing, a bit of that comes across in her socials. In the video of the helicopter from Tuesday morning you can see the heat haze shimmering over the deep canyon. With that and the sun beating down, had to be brutal. Why did they continue to choose to be in the environment when no other humans were and even animals avoid activity in the heat? What was the draw and the driver? I think they lived in air con and were working and going to school remotely so their experience of the heat in Mariposa earlier that week was minimal and abstract, vs. a self image of "going hiking every weekend" and wanting to get out and away from the house were more real?

Maybe, like Kreycik, by the time they realized they were in trouble they were so far from help or physically getting out of the situation that there were no good options? What is also hard to fathom is how much coverage his death got in Cali but it still had no influence on weighing up the risks of heat. Maybe because a lot of his coverage did NOT focus on heat, like their own. Unless the tox screens come back with a definitive cause of death, the messaging around heat needs to change or these deaths will continue. There have been so many this summer, although they were the only ones with a dog and baby in tow. Maybe pediatricians and vets need to hand out flyers advising against outdoor activity at high temps, certainly when there is a heat advisory and poor air quality. No gear or level of real or perceived "fitness" makes it safe to be outdoors exercising when there are heat and air quality advisories, particularly for babies and pets. I think it very likely they used a car seat going to the trail and the dog had on a safety vest on a boat in photos. The reality of the risks of heat need to be similarly unambiguous, perhaps "brain damage" also needs to be touched on. NO human nor canine is above the limitations of ability to discharge heat.

 

[EndoraXplorer]

<snipped by me>What is also hard to fathom is how much coverage [Philip Kreycik's] death got in Cali but it still had no influence on weighing up the risks of heat. Maybe because a lot of his coverage did NOT focus on heat, like their own..

Some people just don't look at MSM or news stories. I was talking to a friend who also lives in SF and she had not heard about this case, nor had she heard about PK. What. I was absolutely stunned. It was all over the news every day! I then did a little bit of polling and a shocking number of my local friends hadn't heard anything about it.

Of course this is anecdotal to the max. Plenty of people DO follow local and national news; there were thousands of people from outside California on the "Find PK" Facebook group.

 

[Angleterre]

No, this summer is the driest ever. CA is in an extreme drought. The state is a tinderbox. No fire had ever burned from one side of the Sierra to the other. In 2021 two did and both are still burning. So, no it wasn’t humid that day.

May I ask and apologies for my ignorance but if it’s an extreme drought situation, do the businesses and residents have extreme water saving measures imposed upon them with severe penalties for non compliance? And where does CA get its remaining water supply from?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I think the water in that camelbak container would have been very, very warm. No use for cooling.

And by the time severe heat stroke strikes, it's too late, you can't even think straight. Pouring warm water on your body is probably the last thing you want to do, in fact, you probably wouldn't have the coordination to do it.

Not to mention, for however long some coherent awareness of their situation remained, they would want to reserve at least a little water for their remaining 1.5 miles of steep and hot trail still to cover. (even if shaded or after dusk. still a super hot day and would have remained hot for hours after dusk)

I think we, in hindsight, are looking at the scenario with full awareness of it being a life-and-death situation. But I think it's possible and even likely that until the last moments when it was too late, they didn't realize the severity of their plight. So they would still be thinking about things like having water for the hike out.

Additionally, since the "remaining" water was in a bladder inside the pack, could it be that they thought they had used it all? Maybe it was only a few ounces left, essentially undetectable, or simply too awkward to get at? (would it entail removing the bladder from the pack and inverting it, to get the last few ounces?)

One thing that really bugs me is water for the dog. Did they have a bowl of any sort? I have a waterproof-lined canvas square where the corners fold up and snap into place as a portable dog bowl that can be opened flat when not in use. I'd expect to see something like that with them. And (as someone else mentioned previously) what about a diaper bag for the baby? I think those things can be clues as to how big an adventure they intended to set out on.

MOO

 

[Angleterre]

I’m not a medical professional. Does anyone know if heat related deaths would show up on an autopsy?

I am not medical but have been present at Home Office Post Mortems in the U.K., when I have been informed of a suspicious death as the on call duty Detective Senior Investigative Officer . Upon attendance and in liaison with the forensic pathologist, although challenging depending upon the nature of the heat related death ie. Heat-stress, Heat exhaustion, and the most severe Heat stroke , but yes it can be identified during PM especially if the worst case which is Heat stroke
All MOO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

May I ask and apologies for my ignorance but if it’s an extreme drought situation, do the businesses and residents have extreme water saving measures imposed upon them with severe penalties for non compliance? And where does CA get its remaining water supply from?

Most of California gets its water from a system of reservoirs that are [hopefully] filled in the springtime by snowmelt runoff.

There are a few large management systems that each cover big chunks of the state, and then there are many smaller systems and arrangements. Some areas use a lot of groundwater as well.

Rules about cutting back are usually IMO managed municipality by municipality.

I think requirements to conserve/cutbacks might start to happen if this coming winter is dry, but I haven't heard of any yet. MOO

 

[Angleterre]

Most of California gets its water from a system of reservoirs that are [hopefully] filled in the springtime by snowmelt runoff.

There are a few large management systems that each cover big chunks of the state, and then there are many smaller systems and arrangements. Some areas use a lot of groundwater as well.

Rules about cutting back are usually IMO managed municipality by municipality.

I think requirements to conserve/cutbacks might start to happen if this coming winter is dry, but I haven't heard of any yet. MOO

Thank you, I appreciate your help with answering my questions

 

[RedHaus]

One thing that really bugs me is water for the dog. Did they have a bowl of any sort? I have a waterproof-lined canvas square where the corners fold up and snap into place as a portable dog bowl that can be opened flat when not in use. I'd expect to see something like that with them. And (as someone else mentioned previously) what about a diaper bag for the baby? I think those things can be clues as to how big an adventure they intended to set out on.

RS&BBM
Yes, @Auntie Cipation, that seems to be the BIG question none of us can answer - what was their intent that day?

 

[happyday]

So, if the thought is that this was a sequential death situation, and that perhaps the baby or dog succumbed first, how does water that could have been used to cool the victim get left in a container?

We don’t know that some of the water wasn’t used to try to cool any of the victims. They were probably rationing so maybe tried to reserve some. That doesn’t always work though. My dog experienced a bad heat exhaustion incident IN THE WATER. She was in the lake the whole time and we were throwing the ball for her. She was drinking the water and in it. It was in the 90’s that day. It was terrible.