CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[Auntie Cipation]

. According to her IG posts, she had a traumatic brain injury. That is not a psychological condition; it's a physical injury, and tends to be disabling and long-term. We don't know anything about hers specifically, and we do know that she was in school to be some kind of couneslor or therapist, so hers hasn't prevented her from doing college work. But there could be symptoms that crop up uneder stress, or in triggering environments or situations.

I believe the TBI was ten years ago when she was still a teen. Her reference to a condition leading to her stepping away from corporate work seems to be something else entirely, IMO.

Regarding acclimatizing to heat, wasn't it also established that they lived at a location about 1000 ft higher than the hites cove area and with old ponderosa growth?

I don't believe so.

An earlier poster thought they lived along Carleton Road which is roughly 2900-3000 ft elevation I believe.

The spot where they parked appears to be around 3800 ft elevation and where they were found looks like roughly 2800 ft although we don't know exactly where they were, somewhere mid-switchbacks. The river, assuming they went that far, is around 1900 ft. MOO

AFAIK All National Forests in CA are closed.

The recent sfgate article refers to a closure of a length of the mainstem Merced River, lower down than Forest land. The closure is for Bureau of Land Management-managed land.

Also, the statewide forest closure is for a specific reason relating to firefighting resources and avoidance of fire starts. If a forest has a reason to close an area unrelated to that, IMO they will still issue that closure separately so that it will be in place even if the fire closure is rescinded.

I was completely sold on heatstroke, or poisonous water combined with the heat. However, reading about the lightning, seeing the sources on multiple deaths with one strike, I think it is a very possible explanation, but what about the new news reports about a hazard found just off the trail where they were found?

My theory about the new reports of a potential and unknown hazard is that they are being precautionary because the tox reports aren't in yet and in theory could identify something hazardous. I suspect that particular closure will be cancelled once the tox report is in, as long as it doesn't ID an environmental tox-related cause of death.

Also I wanted to mention that today I was reading an article about one of the forest fires in the coastal mountains of CA, and there was a photo of the front of a general store in one of the small towns near the fire. The store's bulletin board displayed a flyer about toxic algae in the river (Trinity River in this case). I am taking that as an indication that the algae issues are fairly ubiquitous in California this year, certainly not limited to just the South Fork of the Merced...

MOO

 

[everybodhi]

You know, I hope we’re not losing sight of the bigger picture here. It would be a good thing if this family died a relatively quick and painless death, would it not? That’s what I’m rooting for.

I’m getting a weird hostility vibe here, with my quotes getting bolded back to me and cryptic one word replies. I’ve got no dog in this fight, I just see the situation in a different way. If I distinguish situations presented in other cases because I see relevant differences, I’m not dismissing them. And if I’m totally wrong, which I probably am, I’ve got no ego attached to the outcome. I’m just hoping, and it appears at least possible, that this family didn’t suffer and their loved ones can be at peace.

I am not happy about how my partner suddenly died, but I had no idea until after waiting months for the autopsy report how much relief would come with knowing why.

 

[everybodhi]

I believe the TBI was ten years ago when she was still a teen. Her reference to a condition leading to her stepping away from corporate work seems to be something else entirely, IMO.

I don't believe so.

An earlier poster thought they lived along Carleton Road which is roughly 2900-3000 ft elevation I believe.

The spot where they parked appears to be around 3800 ft elevation and where they were found looks like roughly 2800 ft although we don't know exactly where they were, somewhere mid-switchbacks. The river, assuming they went that far, is around 1900 ft. MOO

The recent sfgate article refers to a closure of a length of the mainstem Merced River, lower down than Forest land. The closure is for Bureau of Land Management-managed land.

Also, the statewide forest closure is for a specific reason relating to firefighting resources and avoidance of fire starts. If a forest has a reason to close an area unrelated to that, IMO they will still issue that closure separately so that it will be in place even if the fire closure is rescinded.

My theory about the new reports of a potential and unknown hazard is that they are being precautionary because the tox reports aren't in yet and in theory could identify something hazardous. I suspect that particular closure will be cancelled once the tox report is in, as long as it doesn't ID an environmental tox-related cause of death.

Also I wanted to mention that today I was reading an article about one of the forest fires in the coastal mountains of CA, and there was a photo of the front of a general store in one of the small towns near the fire. The store's bulletin board displayed a flyer about toxic algae in the river (Trinity River in this case). I am taking that as an indication that the algae issues are fairly ubiquitous in California this year, certainly not limited to just the South Fork of the Merced...

MOO

It's all over NorCal; Humboldt, Mendocino and Sonoma Counties.
It's seems to get worse every year, increased nutrient levels, higher temps and lower water levels from drought are all contributing.

 

[SpideySense]

I haven't read that heat stroke causes a tendancy to wander, do you have a link to that symptom?
Heatstroke causes confusion, that's a fact, but I've never heard it causes wandering.
Correlation does not imply causation.
People wander off on a hot day, and then, get stuck too far away from help to save themselves once their body temp starts elevating.
Thousands of people have died of heatstroke in cities during heat waves when wandering out of their un-airconditioned apartments to air conditioned businesses would save their life, but the confusion caused by their overheated brains prevents them from logically wandering outside.

<modsnip >

If I recall the White Sands case, the boy reported that his father kept repeating “The truck is just up there,” as he continued to walk further out into the dunes before he collapsed. If I recall the Phillip Kreycik case, he walked a bizarre circuitous path when he was succumbing and ended up 250 yards away from his mapped course. If I recall the German couple in Australia, the wife appeared to have turned off the creek bed she and her husband were walking along for unknown reasons and then proceeded to walk alone almost a kilometer out into the middle of nowhere before succumbing. Meanwhile her husband continued to walk alone for nearly 5 kilometers in another direction before succumbing. That’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about.

 

[SpideySense]

I am not happy about how my partner suddenly died, but I had no idea until after waiting months for the autopsy report how much relief would come with knowing why.

I’m very sorry for your loss, @everybodhi

 

[everybodhi]

I’m very sorry for your loss, @everybodhi

Thank you.
Not knowing why and waiting to know is the worst part, by the time the autopsy is done the ones who love them have spent months playing all the scenarios in their heads.
There is no painless way to accept a loss like that, but knowing the truth helps.
The sooner the better for the Gerrish family and everyone who loved them.

 

[Parsnip]

Here is another recent case of two people in close proximity found dead, and heat is suspected to be the cause:
2 men found dead at Bend houseless camp, as city declares heat-related state of emergency

 

[Parsnip]

The statistics presented in this article suggest lightning would be an unlikely cause of death for the parents in the present case, as they were more than 60 feet apart, and the probability that both would die is low.
Hiker Lightning Safety

 

[SpideySense]

Here is another recent case of two people in close proximity found dead, and heat is suspected to be the cause:
2 men found dead at Bend houseless camp, as city declares heat-related state of emergency

Thanks for that link. Again, though, it’s not really the same situation, is it? They were found along the same stretch of road in a camp for the homeless, it’s not even clear that they knew each other, and one of them was found inside a camper. There are lots of situations where people are found together (I think of all the elderly who died in their apartments in France during the European heat wave). But that’s not the same as two or more people in a group doing something together outside who are then found dead in close proximity, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 292879]

In some ways I feel like this family could become canaries in the coal mine as far as climate change-related heatstroke is concerned. It's troubling to me that no one was out on that trail on Sunday, Monday or Tuesday except this family, LE and SAR. Locals stayed away due to the extremeness of the hike and weather. Examples can be found in that blogger and in AllTrails reviews of people turning back or not bothering with the hike at all, plus further cautions about steepness and bringing enough water. I also noticed that no reviews of that hike have been left on AllTrails in the months of July or August, and only one review left in the month of June. That tells us something as well. JMO.

 

[everybodhi]

In some ways I feel like this family could become canaries in the coal mine as far as climate change-related heatstroke is concerned. It's troubling to me that no one was out on that trail on Sunday, Monday or Tuesday except this family, LE and SAR. Locals stayed away due to the extremeness of the hike and weather. Examples can be found in that blogger and in AllTrails reviews of people turning back or not bothering with the hike at all, plus further cautions about steepness and bringing enough water. I also noticed that no reviews of that hike have been left on AllTrails in the months of July or August, and only one review left in the month of June. That tells us something as well. JMO.

And one of the SARs people participating in the recovery also had a heat related incident, it's reported earlier in the thread.

 

[Parsnip]

In some ways I feel like this family could become canaries in the coal mine as far as climate change-related heatstroke is concerned. It's troubling to me that no one was out on that trail on Sunday, Monday or Tuesday except this family, LE and SAR. Locals stayed away due to the extremeness of the hike and weather. Examples can be found in that blogger and in AllTrails reviews of people turning back or not bothering with the hike at all, plus further cautions about steepness and bringing enough water. I also noticed that no reviews of that hike have been left on AllTrails in the months of July or August, and only one review left in the month of June. That tells us something as well. JMO.

Agree. It is remarkable to me that someone from LE or SAR was also treated for heat-related illness. I appreciate you canary/coal mine analogy. The fact is that similar hyperthermic situations with hikers seem to be rare up to this point. The future will likely tell a different story.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

. According to her IG posts, she had a traumatic brain injury. That is not a psychological condition; it's a physical injury, and tends to be disabling and long-term. We don't know anything about hers specifically, and we do know that she was in school to be some kind of couneslor or therapist, so hers hasn't prevented her from doing college work. But there could be symptoms that crop up uneder stress, or in triggering environments or situations.

The TBI was when she was much younger. The debilitating illness leading to pursuing a career in counseling was more recent per her IG. I suppose there could be a link between the 2 but they seem to have occurred at different life stages.

 

[Lucy Locket]

Can I give a UK point of view? (Nationalities and ethnicities may also play a part in this.)

Granted...I have never hiked in the US but looking at the trail, that they were doing that day, it looks arduous - especially with an infant and dog. I think that they may have coped with it had it not been for the vulnerable ones. (I think that we are all agreed on this.)

I am a dog owner. Owned several dogs in Egypt (three in one go which we brought over to the UK). I have a long haired dog right now. He continually pants ...indoors in a cool house in Northern UK.

I live in the North of the UK, not too far from where Jonathan comes from, and near to where he went to University. I am also a tour guide and outdoor first aid trained. I come from this area of the UK.

I recognise that Jonathan had been in the US for a long time and had hiked a lot: there and worldwide.

Obviously the weather and the terrain over here in the UK are a lot different to those of California. California is not called 'hot oven' for nothing!

I do feel that the earth is heating up. We get a lot of rainfall here (usually). We are located slap bang between NW/NE regions (in the countryside) and it has been one of the driest summers here in 2021 for a very long time. Meanwhile down South they have had massive amounts of rain and flooding (the reverse of what normally happens here in the UK).

I am not the most practical of people that is why I try to read so much and learn about the outdoor terrain/outdoor adventures. I have to admit that I am more of an academic. I can be a klutz, however, I try hard to go against this and plan for (things going wrong) as much as I can.

Moreover, I do know that I would not take a very small baby and a dog on a hike in high temperatures full stop. Call it a mother's intuition. I also have a thyroid condition which makes me think a lot about how the body regulates temperatures.

In the UK traditionally we are not used to levels of high heat. We have a saying: "mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun". I am not saying Jonathan was totally silly (far from it...he seems like a very loving family man) but sometimes we all make rash judgements. The family could have been celebrating something: we have no idea what their motivation was that fateful day.

A lot of British still ascribe to the policy/lifestyle of maintaining 'a stiff upper lip'...in other words...they will push through a hard situation no matter what. Show no fear or hesitation.

The most extreme example of this was many years ago when a football (soccer) stadium was on fire but a lot of people lost their lives because they did not want to be seen to be the first one to make a move (away from the terraces that were on fire).

I can be a little like this but have learned the hard way (through scuba diving) that I have to pay attention to my body, my limitations, my body temperature and those of others etc etc. (Nothing has happened to me with any clients, touch wood. That's why I try to learn so much.)

My husband is incredibly practical (luckily for me and my children) and he thinks of things well before I do. Again I try to constantly learn. My teenage son cannot tolerate any levels of heat whatsoever. We found that out during a terrific heatwave in NE Spain on the coast about 4 years ago. We ended up buying a fan for him and not even insisting that he move to go to the pool or the sea (which were closeby). He just could not do it. I speak fluent Spanish and have been going to Spain for 30+ years. I have never experienced heat like it.

My husband is 14 years older then me and when we first got married (a long time ago) I was slightly in awe of him and his accrued experience. I followed what he advised slavishly. (It is a little different now!! )

I am trying to learn from many Hikers...especially particular cases like the one in the Pyrenees and another in the mountains of North America. Both females. They both were deemed to be 'experienced' but they made fateful decisions which led to their deaths. These were in colder situations but if one is incredibly set on doing something/achieving a goal...then possibly common sense goes out of the window...even when prevailing conditions actually dictate a different course of action.

On the subject of UK baby backpacks etc: they all vary over here too. We do not have a generic term. We have the hiking baby backpacks (proper baby hiking backpacks that are structured with a metal frame) and kangaroo/papoose slings (the earth mother/father cloth sling versions). There are a myriad of them. It just depends how close the infant is to the parent's body.

We also have walkers staying with us at our holiday accommodation (we are located on well known/well trodden hiking trails). Sometimes parents do ask their children to hike with them.

I am intrigued by the lightning theories. I am keen to learn more. That is something we see less of over here but of course, it is not unheard of either. I guess we definitely have less dry lightning strikes but I could be wrong.

I agree that the waiting for the results (toxicology etc) must be agony for their families...not knowing what has happened to this lovely family. Let us hope that the results come out soon. Then, hopefully, we will know for sure what happened to them.

All of this totally: MOO.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

for all the theories of cause of death -- lightening, algae, aliens-- none of them explains why this family was on this trail in deathly conditions with a baby and dog. no matter what tox tests show, this is the question which can't be answered because there is no answer. to compound it, two adults made this decision together. this is the only mystery, in my humble opinion.

 

[Lucy Locket]

Another thought occurs to me.

The type of dog we have absolutely loves the water. If there is any water on a walk we cannot keep him out of it. Absolutely impossible. He drinks a lot of it too. Perhaps Oski was like this...

MOO.

 

[willyengland]

for all the theories of cause of death -- lightening, algae, aliens-- none of them explains why this family was on this trail in deathly conditions with a baby and dog. no matter what tox tests show, this is the question which can't be answered because there is no answer. to compound it, two adults made this decision together. this is the only mystery, in my humble opinion.

I would say, that the only problem going this trail with dog and child was the heat.
So one could conclude that they never experienced such a heat outdoors with child and/or dog.

 

[RickshawFan]

FWIW, I looked further into the lightening crouch, and found this NOAA information. The U.S. National Weather Services stopped recommending the crouch in 2008 - it is interesting to read why. It is more about prevention now. The National Weather Service (NWS) stopped recommending the crouch in 2008.

The thing about the lightning crouch…. You’re only gonna do that if you see lightning bolts and they got a little too close for comfort. Ground lightning comes from below, not above. And the larger batch of lightning may be 10+ miles away.

 

[RickshawFan]

This is dated from 1998 but may provide valuable information:

New Study Indicates Lightning Can Kill Without Leaving A Mark

New findings by a group of Colorado researchers indicates lightning could be the culprit in a number of unexplained fatal heart malfunctions in the outdoors in recent years, including some in the state's high mountains.

Great find.
Note the quote, too: Lightning has been known to travel great distances underground…

 

[RickshawFan]

Lightning strike that hit both the adults and killed them during a bone dry, hot California summer? I have always associated lightning with rain or at least high humidity.

CA has dry lightning, and they are very prone to it. When you hear about lightning causing a huge fire, it’s very often that there is no associated rain or thunder. This makes those fires difficult to detect in early stages. I bet the 2018 fire in Hites Cove was dry lightning.