CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[CocoChanel]

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[Owlpellet]

A long post as it’s taken me a couple of days to catch up and would like to respond to a few things and give my take on it all!

I think the fact the husband was in a sitting position may suggest he was having breathing/cardiac issues and it’s easier to cope sitting. This would coincidently create some shade for the baby but I’d imagine they had some kind of cloth shade for the baby already.

The fact that Ellen is further up the hill suggests she was going for help. She left it too late and quickly collapsed or was returning, realising she had forgotten to take car keys and phone in her distress. As they were on a switchback there was nowhere to wander in confusion really other than up and down the track.

What caused Jonathan’s cardiac or breathing problems? Possibilities include:

1. Heat and exertion, possibly exacerbated by trying to carry an incapacitated dog or rushing because of an increasingly heat-affected baby
2. I’ve noticed Jonathan’s weight seems to fluctuate in the photos and he may not have been as fit as we imagine
3. If they made it to the river, the dog would have gone into the water if it could. It could then have returned and shaken itself beside them, creating a cloud of river water and potential contaminants that the family inhaled contributing to their collapse

I think if they made it to the river, they would have waited until the cooler hours to tackle the ascent, as SpiderySense suggests. In fact, that’s the only hiking scenario that makes any sense to me, given the late start.

I think the lightning strike is possible but doesn’t follow from everyone’s position when they were found. If they were scattering to increase their survival chances, Ellen would have taken either the child or the dog with her. She wouldn’t have left them both with Jonathan. However, if they were all affected by a strike, it’s possible she recovered, tried to administer first aid, then tried to go for help.

But on balance, I believe it was heat exhaustion and being unwilling to take a quick decision to leave anyone affected behind and go for help. Which is a very understandable scenario.

I live in a predominantly cool climate and wouldn’t take a dog or baby out for a hike after it reached the low to mid 70s. (Or myself really!) I don’t know if I’d make different decisions in a hotter climate where I was acclimatised, but I think not, as my experience in hot countries across the world, is that no one is out exerting themselves by choice in the kind of high temperatures experienced on that day (90 to above 100 F) and they don’t take babies and dogs along if they have to go out as they just can’t cope as well in the heat and if something goes wrong, there is no “Plan B”. There is no escape route from this kind of walk; it’s like a high ridge walk. So like many others here, I’m baffled why they chose to do this and agree that they lacked experience in terms of planning, foresight and risk management.

I found the post about virtual Burning Man interesting and saw that there was an option and invitation to upload your own contributions. While this greatly appeals to my websleuth nose...I think it’s unlikely that they were doing this- creating an immersive experience to upload. If they were, LE will find the evidence on their phone as they will have downloaded the app provided.

Heartfelt wishes to all their relatives, they looked like a lovely family and this must be so hard for them to bear.

 

[RickshawFan]

Okay, as a newbie I’m going to make a bold move and go out on a limb here. Feel free to throw tomatoes my way

<MOO> It was not the heat. Heatstroke didn’t kill them. Which means there was no long, horrible suffering, no babies or dogs in agony, no dramatic trailside decisions. You can continue to imagine all kinds of awful things about this poor family’s last hours if you wish, but there’s absolutely no reason or evidence to support those imaginings. <MOO>

Let’s quickly set aside LE’s apparent lack of focus on heatstroke. Some of you have rightly pointed out how much of a nonissue it seems to be to them, and how irresponsible it is that they are not being more vocal. That should tell you something. LE is in the business of protecting people. When two people died recently a few days apart in Death Valley, LE was calling “suspected heatstroke” shortly after the bodies were recovered and long before autopsy. They’re not doing that here. For good reasons.

Here’s why. You cannot conclude that because it was, say, 105 degrees, the heat killed these people, or even made them uncomfortable. That’s a basic misunderstanding of how our bodies physically change and acclimate to our temperature surroundings. Hot weather is relative, and what feels insufferable to you may feel mild to someone else. Ever wonder how a tourist from Chicago can succumb to heatstroke in less than an hour hiking in Death Valley in 115 degree heat, while the rangers who live there can perform SAR for hours on end in long pants? It’s because the rangers’ bodies are acclimated.

Here’s a good description of the heat acclimating process: Heat Index - Acclimatizing Workers | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

From the above OSHA article:
“ Workers become gradually acclimatized when exposed to hot conditions for several weeks. Physical changes in blood vessels and in sweating occur to dissipate heat more effectively.”

and

“Humans are, to a large extent, capable of adjusting to the heat. Much of this adjustment to heat, under normal circumstances, usually takes about 5 to 7 days, during which time the body will undergo a series of changes that will make continued exposure to heat more endurable.”

This family lived there, and by all accounts spent a lot of time outdoors hiking in the weather. All of them, even the baby, were acclimated. Acclimating doesn’t mean you get used to feeling hot and uncomfortable- it means your body has made physical changes so that you DON’T feel hot and uncomfortable, you can stay cool more efficiently, and you are at not at high risk for heat injury or heatstroke.

Now, if they were like some residents of the California Foothills who spend most of the summer months inside in air-conditioning, that might alter my opinion. But that doesn’t sound like them.

Someone here a few threads back used the temperature readings at El Portal, CA as a good comparison of the conditions in the trail area, and that’s fair. So, here are the daily highs recorded at that station for the entire month before August 15:

7/15 - 99.1
7/16 - 99.3
7/17 - 103.5
7/18 - 103.6
7/19 - 99
7/20 - 102.6
7/21 - 103.3
7/22 - 104.5
7/23 - 102.9
7/24 - 104.9
7/25 - 104.5
7/26 - 99.7
7/27 - 102.7
7/28 - 104.2
7/29 - 105.1
7/30 - 105.1
7/31 - 100.4
8/1 - 103.1
8/2 - 104.0
8/3 - 108.1
8/4 - 107.4
8/5 - 100.0
8/6 - 100.0
8/7 - 100.6
8/8 - 100.8
8/9 - 101.7
8/10 - 102.9
8/11 - 106.0
8/12 - 106.0
8/13 - 105.1
8/14 - 106.3
8/15 - 107.1

Source: Personal Weather Station Dashboard | Weather Underground

The corresponding temperatures at the Jerseydale Station were a few degrees lower, but still high 90s to low 100s.

So, Jon, Ellen, and Miju were like the Death Valley rangers, while most of us would be like the Chicago tourist. Physically, the three of them were different than us. They would feel cooler and be able to keep a normal core temperature for much longer than we would.

Now… throw in the facts that 1) at least 1/3 of their hiking route had them walking consistently alongside a river that had access points along the way, 2) that section of the river was upstream from the algal mats found at Hites Cove, 3) they had at least some water that we know of, and perhaps things like food and empty water bladders we haven’t heard about, and 4) they were all found together on trail.

Can ANYONE find a case of multiple outdoor heatstroke deaths (couples, hikers, etc) where the bodies were found within 200 yards of each other? I can’t.

<MOO>
Okay, commence the tomato throwing, lol.

—IMO adjusting to heat is one thing. Adjusting to strenuous activity over 95 degrees, I think not.
—SAR doesn’t go out when there’s a significant risk to its members, and they have mitigation techniques. A good comparator would be the operation in Joshua Tree a couple of years ago when someone went out, dressed completely inappropriately and against exlicit warnings (his family labeled him “experienced” by the way) when the temp was over 100 degrees in the window where he was on the trail. That man had water left BTW. (IMO if he had water left so far from the trailhead in that heat, he was not “experienced”. We might very well be dealing with the same thing here.)
—there’s no evidence this family actually WAS hiking frequently. They had a young baby, Baby’s can be needy and not make hikes possible!
—Have you ever worn pants like SAR wears? They are nylon. They wick and dry super fast. Those are the coolest things to wear in those conditions. And they have UV protection (as well as keep out bugs). Shorts would be a death trap because of sun burn, and you can get eaten alive. The man who died in Joshua Tree I mentioned above was wearing shorts and a black T-shirt IIRC.
Human remains found at Joshua Tree National Park have been identified as a missing Canadian man - CNN

 

[armchairagatha]

Trail closure is due to toxic algal blooms. ‘Unknown toxin’ is now confirmed to be the algal blooms due to which they have closed the trail near the river.
Toxic algae leads to closure of river areas near where California family died

 

[everybodhi]

—IMO adjusting to heat is one thing. Adjusting to strenuous activity over 95 degrees, I think not.
—SAR doesn’t go out when there’s a significant risk to its members, and they have mitigation techniques. A good comparator would be the operation in Joshua Tree a couple of years ago when someone went out, dressed completely inappropriately and against exlicit warnings (his family labeled him “experienced” by the way) when the temp was over 100 degrees in the window where he was on the trail. That man had water left BTW. (IMO if he had water left so far from the trailhead in that heat, he was not “experienced”. We might very well be dealing with the same thing here.)
—there’s no evidence this family actually WAS hiking frequently. They had a young baby, Baby’s can be needy and not make hikes possible!
—Have you ever worn pants like SAR wears? They are nylon. They wick and dry super fast. Those are the coolest things to wear in those conditions. And they have UV protection (as well as keep out bugs). Shorts would be a death trap because of sun burn, and you can get eaten alive. The man who died in Joshua Tree I mentioned above was wearing shorts and a black T-shirt IIRC.
Human remains found at Joshua Tree National Park have been identified as a missing Canadian man - CNN

Alot of media and online sites present PM's death as a mystery, the day he went missing in July they where searching by noon, they quickly had to suspend SAR because the dogs paw pads were burned, he was located two years later behind a rock, off trail, where there was a little shade.
Water and food was found with his body but that wouldn't have helped lower his rapidly rising body temp in that heat. People who saw him on the trail that morning said he was moving quickly.
He left the hotel at 9am after breakfast, if he had left before sunrise he probably would have made it back before 9am in time for a leisurely breakfast and could have helped his wife pack up before checkout too.
As long as people continue to misjudge what the human body is capable of in high heat, we will continue to see these accidents.
I love that park and 49 Palms Oasis but I've never hiked it in summer.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

A long post as it’s taken me a couple of days to catch up and would like to respond to a few things and give my take on it all!

I think the fact the husband was in a sitting position may suggest he was having breathing/cardiac issues and it’s easier to cope sitting. This would coincidently create some shade for the baby but I’d imagine they had some kind of cloth shade for the baby already.

The fact that Ellen is further up the hill suggests she was going for help. She left it too late and quickly collapsed or was returning, realising she had forgotten to take car keys and phone in her distress. As they were on a switchback there was nowhere to wander in confusion really other than up and down the track.

What caused Jonathan’s cardiac or breathing problems? Possibilities include:

1. Heat and exertion, possibly exacerbated by trying to carry an incapacitated dog or rushing because of an increasingly heat-affected baby
2. I’ve noticed Jonathan’s weight seems to fluctuate in the photos and he may not have been as fit as we imagine
3. If they made it to the river, the dog would have gone into the water if it could. It could then have returned and shaken itself beside them, creating a cloud of river water and potential contaminants that the family inhaled contributing to their collapse

I think if they made it to the river, they would have waited until the cooler hours to tackle the ascent, as SpiderySense suggests. In fact, that’s the only hiking scenario that makes any sense to me, given the late start.

I think the lightning strike is possible but doesn’t follow from everyone’s position when they were found. If they were scattering to increase their survival chances, Ellen would have taken either the child or the dog with her. She wouldn’t have left them both with Jonathan. However, if they were all affected by a strike, it’s possible she recovered, tried to administer first aid, then tried to go for help.

But on balance, I believe it was heat exhaustion and being unwilling to take a quick decision to leave anyone affected behind and go for help. Which is a very understandable scenario.

I live in a predominantly cool climate and wouldn’t take a dog or baby out for a hike after it reached the low to mid 70s. (Or myself really!) I don’t know if I’d make different decisions in a hotter climate where I was acclimatised, but I think not, as my experience in hot countries across the world, is that no one is out exerting themselves by choice in the kind of high temperatures experienced on that day (90 to above 100 F) and they don’t take babies and dogs along if they have to go out as they just can’t cope as well in the heat and if something goes wrong, there is no “Plan B”. There is no escape route from this kind of walk; it’s like a high ridge walk. So like many others here, I’m baffled why they chose to do this and agree that they lacked experience in terms of planning, foresight and risk management.

I found the post about virtual Burning Man interesting and saw that there was an option and invitation to upload your own contributions. While this greatly appeals to my websleuth nose...I think it’s unlikely that they were doing this- creating an immersive experience to upload. If they were, LE will find the evidence on their phone as they will have downloaded the app provided.

Heartfelt wishes to all their relatives, they looked like a lovely family and this must be so hard for them to bear.

I would also add that there was an air quality warning due to smoke from the fires. That can also impact how one tolerates heat and exertion, both for people and dogs.

 

[NoSI]

So I am at work and just talked with one of our ED Physicians about this case. He said that both heat stroke and lightning, including ground lightning, are not his first choices. He did say that once a person gets to the level of head stroke, death is imminent if the person doesn’t get out of the hot environment right away (and get medical care). In heat stroke there would be altered mental status, of course, so decisions that are being made would be poor/illogical. Breathing would become shallow and the person would lose consciousness. Sweating stops as well. Prior to heat stroke, there would be heat exhaustion. During heat exhaustion, there would likely be “unquenchable thirst” and people are usually not able to curb the thirst and conserve water. So its curious that they had a bit of water remaining in their camelbak. He felt they wouldn't have been found in the exact same area if it was heat related. Would have expected them to wander off and seek shade, even if there was none visible. He did say that lightning may not leave obvious physical signs. Said both are possible, but he believes that they ingested something poisonous…

 

[Rocky Mountain Hi]

For me (MOO) the entire discussion on lightening is a stretch considering the circumstances. There is absolutely no evidence. Having said this, there's no evidence of heat stroke either. HOWEVER, the conditions and circumstances point to heat stroke as the more likely of the two. I focus on TWO elements that likely tripped off a cascade of events leaving the ENTIRE family exposed to heat stroke. The infant and dog were almost certainly vulnerable early on with ambient temps approaching mid 90s within an HOUR of the earliest onset of the hike (8AM). This then poses an existential threat to the parents as well. Trying to cope with two helpless companions succumbing to very adverse conditions would be overwhelming for the parents....forcing them to expend additional psychological and physical energy in the process. No doubt they would be required to *pick up the pace* climbing the hill back up...and perhaps having to carry the dog at times. There are several other scenarios as to cause of death, but those explanations, however *possible* they may be, simply aren't compelling. Again...MOO

Consider, that it doesn't have to be "either-or". It could be "both-and". Or neither, or even "all of the above", if they did ingest soemthing poisonous, while becoming exhausted hiking uphill in extreme heat while tending to an overheated baby and dog.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

So I am at work and just talked with one of our ED Physicians about this case. He said that both heat stroke and lightning, including ground lightning, are not his first choices. He did say that once a person gets to the level of head stroke, death is imminent if the person doesn’t get out of the hot environment right away (and get medical care). In heat stroke there would be altered mental status, of course, so decisions that are being made would be poor/illogical. Breathing would become shallow and the person would lose consciousness. Sweating stops as well. Prior to heat stroke, there would be heat exhaustion. During heat exhaustion, there would likely be “unquenchable thirst” and people are usually not able to curb the thirst and conserve water. So its curious that they had a bit of water remaining in their camelbak. He felt they wouldn't have been found in the exact same area if it was heat related. Would have expected them to wander off and seek shade, even if there was none visible. He did say that lightning may not leave obvious physical signs. Said both are possible, but he believes that they ingested something poisonous…

Interesting, thanks.

I do think their location on the switchbacks and the position of the river may have kept them somewhat "contained."

Hope the tox screens come back soon. I do think there could have been multiple factors but with ambient temps of 109 recorded in the shade nearby, the direct sun temps in Devil's Gulch likely were too much for a human or canine to tolerate, seems heat would have to have been a factor to some degree. MOO.

If Jon were wearing the baby, say 25 lbs with carrier, and trying to carry Oski, that would be a significant percentage of his own body weight going up a very steep trail with direct sun exposure. I was not surprised he ended up sitting. Like the runner Kreycik, sadly, due to rising temps it did not help and he never got up.

 

[lotus777]

I believe the TBI was ten years ago when she was still a teen. Her reference to a condition leading to her stepping away from corporate work seems to be something else entirely, IMO.
MOO

It seems the TBI was when she was around 20. But TBIs are often lifelong conditions. And they can make someone more susceptible to heat. Whether the condition mentioned on her Instagram is related or not is anyone's guess...

 

[lotus777]

<modsnip >

If I recall the White Sands case, the boy reported that his father kept repeating “The truck is just up there,” as he continued to walk further out into the dunes before he collapsed. If I recall the Phillip Kreycik case, he walked a bizarre circuitous path when he was succumbing and ended up 250 yards away from his mapped course. If I recall the German couple in Australia, the wife appeared to have turned off the creek bed she and her husband were walking along for unknown reasons and then proceeded to walk alone almost a kilometer out into the middle of nowhere before succumbing. Meanwhile her husband continued to walk alone for nearly 5 kilometers in another direction before succumbing. That’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about.

The reason why the couple being found 30 meters from each other doesn't make heat stroke less likely is that they were on a narrow steep trail. If she was already in distress she would't have gotten very far uphill.

 

[lotus777]

for all the theories of cause of death -- lightening, algae, aliens-- none of them explains why this family was on this trail in deathly conditions with a baby and dog. no matter what tox tests show, this is the question which can't be answered because there is no answer. to compound it, two adults made this decision together. this is the only mystery, in my humble opinion.

It's also possible one of them didn't want to go but gave in to the other one. I have to think one of them may have recognized the danger or was more cautious about it.

 

[NSamuelle]

So I am at work and just talked with one of our ED Physicians about this case. He said that both heat stroke and lightning, including ground lightning, are not his first choices. He did say that once a person gets to the level of head stroke, death is imminent if the person doesn’t get out of the hot environment right away (and get medical care). In heat stroke there would be altered mental status, of course, so decisions that are being made would be poor/illogical. Breathing would become shallow and the person would lose consciousness. Sweating stops as well. Prior to heat stroke, there would be heat exhaustion. During heat exhaustion, there would likely be “unquenchable thirst” and people are usually not able to curb the thirst and conserve water. So its curious that they had a bit of water remaining in their camelbak. He felt they wouldn't have been found in the exact same area if it was heat related. Would have expected them to wander off and seek shade, even if there was none visible. He did say that lightning may not leave obvious physical signs. Said both are possible, but he believes that they ingested something poisonous…

Great to have a physician weigh in on this - thank you!

 

[rahod1]

for all the theories of cause of death -- lightening, algae, aliens-- none of them explains why this family was on this trail in deathly conditions with a baby and dog. no matter what tox tests show, this is the question which can't be answered because there is no answer. to compound it, two adults made this decision together. this is the only mystery, in my humble opinion.

EXACTLY!! Funny I was about to post this fundamental fact. Exposing the infant and dog to 90F+ (no shade) for more than an hour would almost guarantee disaster for them both. No amount of water would have made a difference in this case. Yes...there could have other causes as well and they can't be ruled out at this point, but from what we KNOW so far about the weather and trail, the infant and pet were put into jeopardy from the very start.
Just MOO.

 

[gitana1]

So why didn’t they use the water to wet the skin and bring down core temp? That’s what I can’t get my head around. I wasn’t suggesting hydration, I was suggesting cooling.

Yes and per trail guides the river is lined with trees.

 

[EndoraXplorer]

I am not happy about how my partner suddenly died, but I had no idea until after waiting months for the autopsy report how much relief would come with knowing why.

@everybodhi I am so, so, sorry for your loss of your partner.

We can sit here and speculate and conjecture, but this is real, and devastating for the Gerrish / Chung families. I hope that they get answers quickly.

 

[gitana1]

Right, I’ve been hung up on this as well. I’d expect a (formerly) wet T-shirt draped around the neck, attempts to call for help by the person who had not succumbed, and greater progress towards help by the person who had not yet succumbed. If both did succumb to heat eventually, it’s actually odd that they were close together - heat stroke victims tend to wander from disorientation (look at the Death Valley Germans or, more recently, Kreycik, who ran in irrational “tight loops” instead of a linear path that would’ve taken him out of the park). I’d expect expect Ellen to be more than 30 yards (or 15 seconds of walking) away.

Safety tip: Carry instapacks of ice - they’re light, easy, and cheap. If you overheat, crunch them in your hand and apply to back of neck, groin, and under arms (basically you’re trying to get close to blood flow). I’m not an experienced hiker by any means, but I carry them.

Thanks for the tip. How long does the ice stay frozen in those packs?

 

[gitana1]

I'm going to throw Naegleria fowleri into the mix, just in case, a microscopic amoeba that is found in lakes, rivers and hot springs.
If the river is low enough to warm up to grow algae, it may be a suitable environment for this too.

Child dies from rare brain-eating amoeba in California

People become infected when water contaminated with the amoeba goes up their nose. From there, the organism can enter the brain and destroy brain tissue. Infections are almost universally fatal, with less than a 3% survival rate, Live Science previously reported.
It's unclear exactly why some people are able to survive the condition, but factors that may contribute to survival include early detection of the infection and treatment with an experimental drug called miltefosine, along with other aggressive treatments to reduce brain swelling.

The only way to prevent Naegleria fowleri infection is to avoid swimming in bodies of freshwater, the statement said.

That’s not instant though. It takes a day or so at oeastC I believe, for the infection to take hold.

 

[EndoraXplorer]

Article from SFGate today - largely rehashing what we already know, but adding lightning into the mix: Another culprit weighed in deaths of Calif. family found on trail
@SpideySense

 

[NSamuelle]

Thanks for the tip. How long does the ice stay frozen in those packs?

They are inert and can be stored at normal or high temps until activated. Once you activate them, they stay cold for about 15 minutes (depending on quality and size it could be more or less). If you apply them correctly, you can cool your body down in that time (but of course you should keep making progress towards an exit point or find shade).