CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[Lexiintoronto]

MOO The only evidence we have that Jon/Ellen/Miju were ostensibly alive and well and going on a hike is a picture of a backpack at 6.45am and a sighting of their vehicle at 7.45am I would say that the photo of the bag is very important considering it’s 50 per cent of tangible evidence they were going on a hike at all that day. It was also mentioned that Jon was researching the HC trail the day before (Saturday) How do LE know that if they didn’t have access to the phone contents at the time? It has been noted that the phone was sent to the FBI to access the information but that was after it was reported Jon accessed Alltrails.

The police told the public about Jonathan accessing the AllTrails app after a warrant to search his phone and social media accounts had been issued. That happened within a few days after they were found. In some circumstances companies respond immediately. From this timeline at link:
Mariposa Sheriff’s Office Update on the Gerrish – Chung Family | Sierra News Online

So there are a few ways LE could have learned that Jonathan accessed the Alltrails app (From Alltrails, social media linked to Alltrails, Google, his phone..).

Tangible evidence that they took the hike would also be LE stating that they were well prepared for the hike loop they are believed to have taken.

Another important point is how remote and inaccessible the location is where they were found. (Sorry that this is blunt)…but a helicopter had to be used to remove them. I don’t see how they could be placed there.

• active hikers
• Jonathan researched part of the trail
• trail close to home (I’m not aware of any murders where the killers went to these lengths, or left no trail they were there.)
• Ellen’s photo and message at 6:45
• Witness sighting an hour later at trailhead
• SAR found and followed their tracks, and those of their dog. So far, no mention of other tracks.
• Very remote area, as mentioned. Very challenging terrain.

My view only, based on media reports.

 

[Parsnip]

I’m sure you are competent and

Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. Let’s suppose that Jon and Ellen have similar expertise. Would they have gone on the hike that’s been suggested, in that heat, with a 12 month old child and a dog? Would they attempt the SL trail without telling friends or relatives where they were going and when they expected to be back?

Your question presupposes that the family had adequate knowledge of the SL trail. A cursory search of the trail would yield few results, as we have all seen.

 

[Parsnip]

DBM…Double post.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I believe you can still take pics and leave messages on your phone. It could just provide further proof of their whereabouts to help family come to terms with what has happened. No stone unturned.

That’s true. We’ve mentioned this before, but the heat may have rendered the phone inoperable. Mine shuts down completely. Today on another case, reporter Brian Entin said his phone was shutting down in the Florida heat where he was reporting live. It made me think of this case.

 

[Pumphouse363]

The police told the public about Jonathan accessing the AllTrails app after a warrant to search his phone and social media accounts had been issued. That happened within a few days after they were found. In some circumstances companies respond immediately. From this timeline at link:
Mariposa Sheriff’s Office Update on the Gerrish – Chung Family | Sierra News Online

So there are a few ways LE could have learned that Jonathan accessed the Alltrails app (From Alltrails, social media linked to Alltrails, Google, his phone..).

Tangible evidence that they took the hike would also be LE stating that they were well prepared for the hike loop they are believed to have taken.

Another important point is how remote and inaccessible the location is where they were found. (Sorry that this is blunt)…but a helicopter had to be used to remove them. I don’t see how they could be placed there.

• active hikers
• Jonathan researched part of the trail
• trail close to home (I’m not aware of any murders where the killers went to these lengths, or left no trail they were there.)
• Ellen’s photo and message at 6:45
• Witness sighting an hour later at trailhead
• SAR found and followed their tracks, and those of their dog. So far, no mention of other tracks.
• Very remote area, as mentioned. Very challenging terrain.

My view only, based on media reports.

Thank you for that detailed response. I’d just like to say I didn’t suggest they had been ‘placed’ on the trail. In regard to your points:

There has been no confirmation that LE has accessed their phones or computers except to say the phone found on Jon was sent to the FBI

Yes they were active hikers - so some credence should be afforded their ability to determine what would be required for the hike that’s been suggested they took on Sunday.

Just because Jon allegedly researched part of the HC trail does not indicate they had any intention of accessing the SL trail. He also has researched and investigated the HC trail on more than one occasion on his Alltrails account. One was a year ago and one four years ago.

The trail is close to one of their properties - they own four properties in Mariposa so are familiar with the area and landscape. There has to be a motive for a murder so you can’t really determine what lengths someone will go to unless you know the reason.

Ellen’s photo and message at 6.45 has not been printed in any media reports except that ‘some people’ have seen it. So no evidence of that.

The witness sighting at 7.45 was of the vehicle heading in the direction of the trail - not actually at the trailhead.

Yes you’re right in saying it is a very remote area where they were discovered. It is very challenging terrain so why would two intelligent, caring, loving parents take their daughter and beloved dog on a hike to Devil's Gulch and the Savage Lundy Trail?

It is a very distressing situation and all seems to point to a tragic miscalculation on their behalf - perhaps heat exhaustion or lightning strike or toxic algae. It’s just so difficult to comprehend why they would make those decisions.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Your question presupposes that the family had adequate knowledge of the SL trail. A cursory search of the trail would yield few results, as we have all seen.

Jon’s Alltrails account shows he accessed the HC Trail a year ago and four years before that. He has four properties in Mariposa and has been visiting the area over several years. He wasn’t found on the HC Trail but the SL trail. My question doesn’t presuppose anything. I’ve never been on the HC Trail but I am fairly certain I would check the weather conditions and probably decide against taking my baby and my dog if the temperatures were likely to be as high as they were on that day.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

If my memory serves me right, there were family's footprints discovered near the trailhead of HC.
Knowing that the trail ground there are of typical dirt, soiled ground, more footprints should've been discovered.
Have the investigators located any more footprints elsewhere?
We just don't know for how long or how far the family was hiking without a single trace of evidence leading up to the SL trail.
Without any further update in this regard, it's all just a speculation.

There is a good article from Friday August 20th, titled Not a Clue. The bodies were found Tuesday morning, the scene processed, and the bodies flown out on Wednesday morning, so at this point the sheriff, who is quoted in the article, had time to assess the evidence. The article has a map that shows what the sheriff told the reporter about their route- the loop. Tracking is a core competency of search and rescue teams, and these are trails that get little use this time of year. I would hope they had no trouble following and analyzing the tracks in those conditions, and until there is an update, this is the best information available, a map of the route as described by the sheriff. This is the first article I read that described the death scene. It's HIGHLY UNUSUAL to release that level of information two days after the scene was processed, as the sheriff released details to the public that only a hypothetical killer would know- the positions of the bodies. That tells me he's certain there isn't a killer on the loose. He would have to take a close look at the track evidence to reach that conclusion, IMHO.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

@Pumphouse363 you have dropped clues that you are from UK or at least from Europe. ("rucksack" for backpack) I hope you won't think I'm patronizing when I say that the conditions in California are sometimes difficult to fathom even for those of us who live here. Where I live in CA is running 5-10 degrees (C) hotter than usual due to climate change. Some mornings are cool enough for a sweater, then by noon it's 90 degrees. (C) I do not live in Mariposa. However, northern, central, and eastern CA are far more complicated regarding shifts in weather and in "microclimates." Checking the weather is not that easy. At best you may be able to get the general weather near where you live, but that doesn't give all the weathers for your area radius. Even if Jon knew Mariposa, he may not have known Devil's Gulch, say. He may not have known the range of weather possible or that all the trees were burned, say. Even on this thread, weather has produced a lively discussion as various posters have tried to pin down exactly what the weather was on those trails on that Sunday! I'm not sure anyone has pinned it down precisely.

So this is a just as much a what-dun-it as a who-dun-it. What I've found here is concerned, caring group who has really tried to propose possible scenarios that make sense. But all I come back to is a National Parks person quoted from an article posted who said that often in hiking it's a perfect storm of small catastrophes that lead to crisis.

Sorry to ramble. I hope we're able to help you see your way through this, if nothing else.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Thank you

 

[Pumphouse363]

@Pumphouse363 you have dropped clues that you are from UK or at least from Europe. ("rucksack" for backpack) I hope you won't think I'm patronizing when I say that the conditions in California are sometimes difficult to fathom even for those of us who live here. Where I live in CA is running 5-10 degrees (C) hotter than usual due to climate change. Some mornings are cool enough for a sweater, then by noon it's 90 degrees. (C) I do not live in Mariposa. However, northern, central, and eastern CA are far more complicated regarding shifts in weather and in "microclimates." Checking the weather is not that easy. At best you may be able to get the general weather near where you live, but that doesn't give all the weathers for your area radius. Even if Jon knew Mariposa, he may not have known Devil's Gulch, say. He may not have known the range of weather possible or that all the trees were burned, say. Even on this thread, weather has produced a lively discussion as various posters have tried to pin down exactly what the weather was on those trails on that Sunday! I'm not sure anyone has pinned it down precisely.

So this is a just as much a what-dun-it as a who-dun-it. What I've found here is concerned, caring group who has really tried to propose possible scenarios that make sense. But all I come back to is a National Parks person quoted from an article posted who said that often in hiking it's a perfect storm of small catastrophes that lead to crisis.

Sorry to ramble. I hope we're able to help you see your way through this, if nothing else.

I can’t find any post where I have referred to a rucksack.

 

[Parsnip]

Good night, sleuths. It’s been a long day.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

and perhaps in the dark didn't want to add LE footprints so they could follow the footprints at daylight?

They have protocols. I have no search and rescue experience, but I can search, here's an example of the science of SAR. "Beyond simply finding and interpreting sign, a tracker is obligated to protect it. Remember, any clue is important, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant." Intro to human tracking.pdf

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

there are a lot of very , no extremely intelligent people that could venture out on a warm summer morning and never give a thought to the weather..but in light of the extreme temps I would think many warnings would be out in the media about dangerous life threatening heat. But it could happen..maybe something happened like the dog got lost/loose or something and it prolonged their time on the trail, maybe it wasn't meant to be a long hike into the afternoon.. mOO

The central valley and foothills are hot, pretty much everyday in the summer. The average daily high in August for Mariposa is 93F. That is too hot for that hike.

 

[NSamuelle]

There is a good article from Friday August 20th, titled Not a Clue. The bodies were found Tuesday morning, the scene processed, and the bodies flown out on Wednesday morning, so at this point the sheriff, who is quoted in the article, had time to assess the evidence. The article has a map that shows what the sheriff told the reporter about their route- the loop. Tracking is a core competency of search and rescue teams, and these are trails that get little use this time of year. I would hope they had no trouble following and analyzing the tracks in those conditions, and until there is an update, this is the best information available, a map of the route as described by the sheriff. This is the first article I read that described the death scene. It's HIGHLY UNUSUAL to release that level of information two days after the scene was processed, as the sheriff released details to the public that only a hypothetical killer would know- the positions of the bodies. That tells me he's certain there isn't a killer on the loose. He would have to take a close look at the track evidence to reach that conclusion, IMHO.

Interesting that in the article, no mention is made of heatstroke, and dehydration is a “long shot.”

 

[RedHaus]

There is a good article from Friday August 20th, titled Not a Clue. The bodies were found Tuesday morning, the scene processed, and the bodies flown out on Wednesday morning, so at this point the sheriff, who is quoted in the article, had time to assess the evidence. The article has a map that shows what the sheriff told the reporter about their route- the loop. Tracking is a core competency of search and rescue teams, and these are trails that get little use this time of year. I would hope they had no trouble following and analyzing the tracks in those conditions, and until there is an update, this is the best information available, a map of the route as described by the sheriff. This is the first article I read that described the death scene. It's HIGHLY UNUSUAL to release that level of information two days after the scene was processed, as the sheriff released details to the public that only a hypothetical killer would know- the positions of the bodies. That tells me he's certain there isn't a killer on the loose. He would have to take a close look at the track evidence to reach that conclusion, IMHO.

That is very insightful, @Lex Parsimoniae. Thank you.

 

[RickshawFan]

I don't see any way they got 1.5 miles out that trail and 1000' downhill without walking there- they're hikers equipped for a hike, with their baby in a backpack and their dog. The scene as described by the sheriff is a scene of despair, with no evidence of a crime. Nature can be unforgiving. The significance of the new baby carrier is it allowed them to do some real hiking again by shifting the weight to his back, no mystery, it represented more freedom. I had to go a step farther to continue our summer backpacking trips, here's a photo of the homemade carriers we used to get our kids to a base camp in the Emigrant. We hired packers to carry our gear, and our wives rode horses. This was a 12 mile hike in, with a couple thousand feet of elevation gain, but in cooler mountain air. MOO

Awesome! Similarly, it's possible the Gerrish-Chungs got lulled into a comfort zone thinking their new back-riding baby pack would be cooler than the front-riding kangaroo pack, make the load seam lighter, easier to hike in, safer, etc., but they overestimated what it could do for them, resulting in catastrophe.

 

[RickshawFan]

If my memory serves me right, there were family's footprints discovered near the trailhead of HC.
Knowing that the trail ground there are of typical dirt, soiled ground, more footprints should've been discovered.
Have the investigators located any more footprints elsewhere?
We just don't know for how long or how far the family was hiking without a single trace of evidence leading up to the SL trail.
Without any further update in this regard, it's all just a speculation.

They could have gone down 2 days in a row, once down Hites Cove for a little bit, the other down the S-L trail for a bit. Provided there's no rain, the footsteps might not indicate a whole lot UNLESS they went in a certain direction down by the river.

 

[Seni]

I’m sure you are competent and

Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. Let’s suppose that Jon and Ellen have similar expertise. Would they have gone on the hike that’s been suggested, in that heat, with a 12 month old child and a dog? Would they attempt the SL trail without telling friends or relatives where they were going and when they expected to be back?

Thats exactly what they did!

 

[annpats]

I can’t find any post where I have referred to a rucksack.

@Pumphouse363
Below is the post where you wrote 'rucksack'.

Your explanation is entirely feasible. I don’t think it’s a case of anyone thinking they had ‘secret’ accounts. It’s more about the fact that the pic of the rucksack is being used as evidence of the last time the couple made communication with anyone ie 6.45am and they could therefore be considered ‘alive and well’ at that time. The next piece of evidence is that their car was seen driving in the direction of HC trail at 7.45am The pic does not appear to be available anymore and it was only the vehicle that was identified not the occupants. It may indeed be the case that Ellen posted a ‘story’ on IG but clearly somebody saw it and thought it significant enough to inform LE. It therefore follows that the person who saw it knew (or surmised) their intentions - otherwise why mention it?

 

[WillieMac]

I can’t find any post where I have referred to a rucksack.

I'm guessing it was the following from just a couple of pages ago. I haven't gone back to search previous threads as I thought this one instance was maybe enough to settle the question at hand.
ETA: Looks like @realanastasia beat me to it. Sorry. Didn't mean to badger the issue. We must have posted at almost the same time.

Your explanation is entirely feasible. I don’t think it’s a case of anyone thinking they had ‘secret’ accounts. It’s more about the fact that the pic of the rucksack is being used as evidence of the last time the couple made communication with anyone ie 6.45am and they could therefore be considered ‘alive and well’ at that time. The next piece of evidence is that their car was seen driving in the direction of HC trail at 7.45am The pic does not appear to be available anymore and it was only the vehicle that was identified not the occupants. It may indeed be the case that Ellen posted a ‘story’ on IG but clearly somebody saw it and thought it significant enough to inform LE. It therefore follows that the person who saw it knew (or surmised) their intentions - otherwise why mention it?