CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #5

[Deleted member 222031]

Highway 140 about 3.5 miles and looks a better option to me.

Are you saying they should have gone back toward the highway when they got down to the river instead of hiking toward Devil Gulch? If so, I can sorta see that. How is that better than just going uphill back to the truck at that point? Less elevation gain?

Can we expect them to know they were in a danger zone of the hike when they reached the Merced?

MOO

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

If we had a poll I would vote heat stroke.

I have hiked many desert trails over the years, and I know that heat exhaustion can occur very suddenly, and once it sets in it can affect decision making. Heat stroke can soon follow.

A hike seems very doable in cooler morning temperatures but the situation can quickly go bad when the temperature spikes, especially when you have an uphill climb.

Years ago on one of my desert hikes I made some bad decisions when I became overheated. I couldn’t figure out if I should go backward which was a longer distance or keep going forward, which was shorter in distance but uphill. I didn’t want to drink the last of my water because I thought I should save it because I still had so far to go. At one point I thought I could see shade off the trail when there was none. I reasoned if I closed my eyes and rested for a few minutes I would have the strength to continue hiking.

I managed to hike two more miles that day and made my way out, but a couple other hikers in the area had to be rescued.

I understand how quickly and unexpectedly heat can overtake even experienced hikers, and it affects decision making.

Incidentally, on my most recent desert hike my companion and I passed two different couples who were hiking with babies, on a very strenuous, mostly uphill trail, in the mid day heat.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. "Experience is not always the kindest of teachers, but it is surely the best."

 

[Pumphouse363]

Um- I said people were frolicking in the river DOWNSTREAM from JC-EC. Highway 140 runs along the Merced River, you can drive right to it and frolic to your heart's content, very popular activity on a Sunday. No, they wouldn't see the JG-EC family doing the same because you couldn't drive to the river where they were, and hiking down to it is not a good idea in summer. Here's a screen shot from Google Maps of the confluence of the Merced River and South Fork Merced River. The green marker at right labels the north end of the Hites Cove Trail. You can see highway 140 along the south side and my, look at all that frolic-friendly river.

Sorry - I think I may have misunderstood your original post.

 

[SophieRose]

Pumphouse363 said: ↑
Highway 140 about 3.5 miles and looks a better option to me.

Are you saying they should have gone back toward the highway when they got down to the river instead of hiking toward Devil Gulch? If so, I can sorta see that. How is that better than just going uphill back to the truck at that point? Less elevation gain?

Can we expect them to know they were in a danger zone of the hike when they reached the Merced?

MOO

It's actually about 5.5 miles from the bottom of Hite Cove OHV Trail to HW140, beginning of Hite Cove Trail near Savage Trading Post, with a climb of around 972 feet.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

It is a fact they were found on the SL trail but we do not yet have the facts of the trail they took. Imo

You say "It is a fact they were found on the SL trail" and in the same sentence "we do not yet have the facts of the trail they took"? I don't know if I can take any more of this, in my opinion, and if anyone should know, it's me.

 

[RedHaus]

Highway 140 about 3.5 miles and looks a better option to me.

According to the Yosemite National Park website, formally speaking, the Hite Cove Trail trailhead is off of Route 140 as you say, @Pumphouse. This is the trail that is known for its beautiful flowers (poppies) in the Spring. THIS IS NOT WHERE THE FAMILY HIKED... but maybe this is where they intended to hike??

Note: that zigzag route down to the Merced River, while it looks similar, is NOT the Savage-Lundy trail. It is Hites Cove Trail (turns into Hites Mine Trail).

Next I'll try to link this map with the Hite Cove Road / Savage Lundy Map to show how these two hiking areas link together.

Hite Cove Trail Map

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Thanks! If trucks fit down HC or could drive down the SL switchbacks, I assume LE would have used them to remove the bodies rather than a helicopter. MOO.

The HCT can take off road vehicles, and a short section of the SLT nearest the locked gate is road. I don't believe the SLT where the bodies were is passable to vehicles. MOO

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I can’t figure why they would choose the most difficult option. MOO ( snipped for emphasis by me)

Neither could Philip Kreycik's wife and family. Kreycik was the master trailrunner who died of heatstroke recently on a short run in searing temperatures. Nor, I imagine, could the friends and family of Lawrence Stanback, who died of heat stroke in Death Valley this summer. Stanback was a philanthropist and outdoorsman, who my brother-in-law worked with on land trust projects in North Carolina. My BIL told me no one who knew Stanback could believe he died in such a manner. If there had not been witnesses, would Stanback be another mystery?

https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article253669268.html

 

[Pumphouse363]

Are you saying they should have gone back toward the highway when they got down to the river instead of hiking toward Devil Gulch? If so, I can sorta see that. How is that better than just going uphill back to the truck at that point? Less elevation gain?

Can we expect them to know they were in a danger zone of the hike when they reached the Merced?

I was basing my assumptions on a previous post suggesting they may have realised they’d misjudged the situation upon reaching Hite Cove. The temperature was increasing throughout the day and following the course of the river for 3.5 miles towards HW140 would seem to be better than hiking back a similar distance to the base of the SL trail and attempting that? They know they will have to climb uphill if they return the way they came but travelling by the river might provide more shade and less exertion? I’m only putting this out there as a possibility - I’m open to being corrected by more experienced outdoor experts.
MOO

 

[WillieMac]

Im sure it’s not uncommon for some people to do this. When I was younger I might even have done it myself - but not when I was 45 with my first (and only) 12 month old baby. We are assuming they were avid hikers on the one hand, but inexperienced on the other. If we are saying the were experienced then it stands to reason they would have taken every precaution to safeguard, not only themselves, but also Miju and Oski. Looking at the ALLtrails account Jon didn’t really appear to hike in areas as remote and unforgiving as the SL trail.
If we assume they actually made it to Hite Cove and managed to enjoy some fun and frolics in the river, surely as experienced hikers (or even just intelligent human beings) they would realise that returning to their vehicle would be madness in the heat of the day? They could have made the decision to follow the traditional route of the HC trail along the river and reach the main highway much more easily than heading for the SL trail. On reaching the HW they could have used their cellphone to call for someone to pick them up.
I can’t figure why they would choose the most difficult option. MOO

I haven't studied the maps enough to state much of an opinion on this but you make a good point in that following the river downstream may have been the best (only?) option for them that day. It's not lost on me though that we've now had dozens of members here discussing this case over the last 6 or 7 weeks, pouring over maps and AllTrails data, and hashing and rehashing details around it - and it's taken this long for the idea to have come up in conversation.
I don't think it would cast any sort of negative light on the family here if we acknowledge though that the idea of walking downriver may not have occurred to them very quickly either. And even if it had, maybe they had reasons to believe it wasn't their best option - ones that we may not agree with now that we have the benefit of hindsight. I could see them having concerns if they were worried about feeding or getting care for the baby or dog if either were in distress. If so, they may have opted for what they believed to be the quicker route up the trail to their car to safety help. Obviously all very much MOO.

Regardless, this seems like a good possible escape plan that may have led them out of trouble. Thanks for sharing it. I'm curious what thoughts anyone else familiar with the area or with how the proposed route appears on AllTrails (or similar sites) might have to share. It obviously is too late to help here in this case but, if it's a viable option, maybe it could be worth somehow making this route known to other hikers somehow as an emergency exit route or something.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Neither could Philip Kreycik's wife and family. Kreycik was the master trailrunner who died of heatstroke recently on a short run in searing temperatures. Nor, I imagine, the friends and family of Lawrence Stanback, who died of heat stroke in Death Valley recently. Stanback was a philanthropist and outdoorsman, who my brother-in-law worked with on land trust projects in North Carolina. My BIL told me no one who knew Stanback could believe he died in such a manner.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article253669268.html

I understand there are other cases where people have tragically died from heatstroke. I think they were able to determine information about Philip Kreycik from a smart watch or similar device? I understand how those families must feel in those circumstances. I don’t think either of the people you mention had dogs or children with them. If it was just Jon and Ellen I could probably accept their deaths more readily as being an error of judgement. Sorry to be such a pain in the proverbial - I just can’t believe they’d subject Miju and Oski to the heat of that day despite all the wonderful people on here arguing so eloquently and convincingly to the contrary. MOO

 

[Pumphouse363]

I haven't studied the maps enough to state much of an opinion on this but you make a good point in that following the river downstream may have been the best (only?) option for them that day. It's not lost on me though that we've now had dozens of members here discussing this case over the last 6 or 7 weeks, pouring over maps and AllTrails data, and hashing and rehashing details around it - and it's taken this long for the idea to have come up in conversation.
I don't think it would cast any sort of negative light on the family here if we acknowledge though that the idea of walking downriver may not have occurred to them very quickly either. And even if it had, maybe they had reasons to believe it wasn't their best option - ones that we may not agree with now that we have the benefit of hindsight. I could see them having concerns if they were worried about feeding or getting care for the baby or dog if either were in distress. If so, they may have opted for what they believed to be the quicker route up the trail to their car to safety help. Obviously all very much MOO.

Regardless, this seems like a good possible escape plan that may have led them out of trouble. Thanks for sharing it. I'm curious what thoughts anyone else familiar with the area or with how the proposed route appears on AllTrails (or similar sites) might have to share. It obviously is too late to help here in this case but, if it's a viable option, maybe it could be worth somehow making this route known to other hikers somehow as an emergency exit route or something.

Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful reply. I have also spent hours looking at maps and trails trying to figure why they would have taken the hike that’s been suggested. I’m genuinely finding this thread therapeutic with everyone’s ideas and concerns.

 

[Pumphouse363]

You say "It is a fact they were found on the SL trail" and in the same sentence "we do not yet have the facts of the trail they took"? I don't know if I can take any more of this, in my opinion, and if anyone should know, it's me.

Because they were researching the HC trail and were found on the SL trail. So did they take the HC trail and end up on the SL trail or did they, as some people have suggested just go down the SL trail? So no, we don’t have all the facts. MOO

 

[Pumphouse363]

I’m not talk

Pumphouse363 said: ↑
Highway 140 about 3.5 miles and looks a better option to me.



It's actually about 5.5 miles from the bottom of Hite Cove OHV Trail to HW140, beginning of Hite Cove Trail near Savage Trading Post, with a climb of around 972 feet.

I’m not talking about that trail. I’m talking about the one that follows the south fork of the river Merced.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Pumphouse363 said: ↑
Highway 140 about 3.5 miles and looks a better option to me.



It's actually about 5.5 miles from the bottom of Hite Cove OHV Trail to HW140, beginning of Hite Cove Trail near Savage Trading Post, with a climb of around 972 feet.

Sorry - I don’t mean the trail near the trading post I’m talking about the one that follows the course of the river.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Pumphouse363 said: ↑
Highway 140 about 3.5 miles and looks a better option to me.



It's actually about 5.5 miles from the bottom of Hite Cove OHV Trail to HW140, beginning of Hite Cove Trail near Savage Trading Post, with a climb of around 972 feet.

Excellent observation. I have said all along everyone weighs risk differently. I have hiked alone in the Rockies and every minute I was out there my risk averse mother thought I was crazy. I may be a little - lol - but mostly I just weighed the risk differently because being "out there" was worth it to me.

That is why I cannot judge these two. Would I be out in that heat? No way. I've tried going 1/8 mile in 100 degrees in Texas & couldn't tolerate it. But projecting my experience onto them is not helpful IMO.

We don't know when they left the river to take the S/L trail. The gaps created by the delay in reporting them missing are significant barriers to understanding time and cause of death. I think what we don't know is still significant. Open to opinions that differ but let's recognize that as a barrier to a quick and easy COD.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I’m sure you’ve learned a great deal since your very first hike. I know we all make mistakes and, hopefully, learn from them. There are so many unanswered questions and, even if the COD is due to heatstroke as many on here have suggested, it still doesn’t explain why they were there. My only difficulty with this situation - and this is in no way a judgement on Jon and Ellen - is the fact that I don’t believe they would take risks with their only daughter or their dog.

 

[Pumphouse363]

I kno

According to the Yosemite National Park website, formally speaking, the Hite Cove Trail trailhead is off of Route 140 as you say, @Pumphouse. This is the trail that is known for its beautiful flowers (poppies) in the Spring. THIS IS NOT WHERE THE FAMILY HIKED... but maybe this is where they intended to hike??

Note: that zigzag route down to the Merced River, while it looks similar, is NOT the Savage-Lundy trail. It is Hites Cove Trail (turns into Hites Mine Trail).

Next I'll try to link this map with the Hite Cove Road / Savage Lundy Map to show how these two hiking areas link together.

View attachment 316002

Hite Cove Trail Map

Thank you I do know this already. I’m not talking about that. I do know where the vehicle was parked and the trail they allegedly took. I know how the two trails link together. Nevertheless they are two separate trails and there is no evidence yet to support that they actually did it.

 

[Officer Dibble]

This is such an incredibly busy case on WS and I've been very busy elsewhere. Can I please ask if there have been any updates in the last week or so? Thank you and apologies for asking.

 

[RedHaus]

This is such an incredibly busy case on WS and I've been very busy elsewhere. Can I please ask if there have been any updates in the last week or so? Thank you and apologies for asking.

Biggest news since a week ago is this update from the Mariposa Sheriff's Office... we've been picking at our data analysis since this update... no real big findings.
Update Mariposa Sheriff’s Office – Gerrish / Chung Investigation | Sierra News Online

 

[IceIce9]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. "Experience is not always the kindest of teachers, but it is surely the best."

I learned some of my lessons the hard way, that’s for sure.

But even back then I would never have taken my children or beloved pet with me on my more challenging adventures.