CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #5

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  • #341
No I mean along the south fork of the Merced river from HITE COVE. So instead of going back towards SL they go in the opposite direction towards the 140 following the river not up the incline.
Yes, that's the first one I gave you. That is the Hite Cove Trail and starts at Savage Trading Post (a historic building). From HCOHV at the river, it is 5.5 miles with a climb of 972 feet. I see no other trail going along the river that way.
 
  • #342
Yes, that's the first one I gave you. That is the Hite Cove Trail and starts at Savage Trading Post (a historic building). From HCOHV at the river, it is 5.5 miles with a climb of 972 feet. I see no other trail going along the river that way.
Sorry my apologies.
 
  • #343
No I don’t mean that - sorry
Well, I'll try once more. Here is the graphic again with Route 140 highlighted by the big blue star. The bold red trail is Hites Cove OHV Trail.... the G-C family apparently turned off of that and headed south/west towards the Savage-Lundy trail... if they had kept going on Hites Cove OHV Trail, they would have ended on Route 140.
upload_2021-10-4_18-18-18.png
 
  • #344
Well, I'll try once more. Here is the graphic again with Route 140 highlighted by the big blue star. The bold red trail is Hites Cove OHV Trail.... the G-C family apparently turned off of that and headed south/west towards the Savage-Lundy trail... if they had kept going on Hites Cove Trail, they would have ended on Route 140.
View attachment 316030
Thank you for your patience - my apologies
 
  • #345
  • #346
Yes, @Pumphouse363, per my maps and notes ^^^ you are speaking about the Hites Cove OHV Trail. If the family did a loop of sorts, they would have turned off of the Hites Cove OHV Trail to head South/West along the South Fork Merced River and then up the Savage-Lundy Trail. But instead, one could continue North/East along the Hites Cove OHV Trail and end up at the Hites Cove Trail, which turns into Hites Mine Trail (as @SophieRose cited) and goes to Route 140 at the Cedar Lodge.

Hite Cove Mine Trail ends up at Cedar Lodge. Hite Cove Trail ends up at Savage Trading Post. I know lots of people who have hiked Hite Cove Trail, including an 85+ year old man, did a mile. Very popular trail.
 
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  • #347
Thank you, Hites Cove TH it is. With two near-adjoining trailheads, standard practice would normally dictate the vehicle be parked at the exiting TH by one of the adults whilst the other adult readies the family at the entry TH. The fact this vehicle was parked at HC leads me to believe one of two things; 1) they did not intend to hike on the S-L trail, or 2) In what I believe was described as ‘love’ by LexP or perhaps a strong interdependence, this family—in the familiar territory of their neighborhood, in pleasant early morning conditions, presumably refreshed from a comfortable sleep in their new home and fueled and hydrated with a hearty pre-hike breakfast—could not imagine being apart for five minutes.

And you know, this research and discussion got me thinking. What if they had planned a one way hike, and had planned to Uber from the Yosemite Cedar Lodge at the base of Hites Mine Trail or at the Hite Cove Trailhead - both on Route 140. It would have been a less grueling venture (downhill). But maybe they took a wrong turn.
 
  • #348
Exactly! But I’m asking why, instead of hiking south along the river to SL, they didn’t follow the river in the opposite direction for about the same distance and they would arrive at HW140. I can’t upload graphics on here for some reason. From there they could have used there cell phone to ring for assistance and/or a ride to collect their vehicle from where they’d left it.

This does seem to be the most safe reaction to finding themselves down at the SF Merced in a heat situation where climbing back up (via either SL or HC trails) to their parked truck would be risky due to heat, sun exposure, and exertion.

Continuing on the HC trail northward makes sense for multiple reasons:

1: they would be travelling downhill instead of uphill

2: the river would remain nearby for instant cooling needs

3: once past Hite Cove itself, they would be more and more likely to encounter others who could call for help if needed

4: their own phone might have service, whereas it was 100% known "no service" along the trails below their truck (I'm not certain of this but suspect it)

5: as you say, even if they encounter no one else frolicking along the base of the South Fork, once they reached highway 140 they could certainly call for help/find someone to give them a ride back to their vehicle.

So, why didn't they do this? I have to agree with whoever posted how remarkable it is that in a month or more of us desperately seeking some logic from this case, no one seems to have thought of this before.

I can think of only two scenarios that make sense to me as to why they didn't take that option.

One, if they were sufficiently uninformed as to the topography and didn't actually realize that following the river downstream would put them at "civilization" in just a few miles (this seems less likely to me, since as hikers you'd think they would grasp the bigger topographical picture of where they were)

Two is if they simply didn't realize they were in such dire straits. They did not think the hike back up would be pushing the limits of life-and-death. (I think this more likely, though I can't understand why they thought this -- as I said earlier, the only way I think it would be safe to attempt to climb SL in that weather is to do it in the 4-6am range)

OK, I just thought of a third option. What if they never made it to the river? What if -- 100% speculation here -- what if they made it partway down the HC trail/OHV road, realized it was too hot to hike, and turned around, but instead of following the road/trail back the way they came, they thought they could cut straight across toward the truck? And ended up hiking cross country a ways and popped out onto the SL trail, either where they were found or a bit lower so they then had to climb?

LE knows, of course, whether their tracks went all the way down HC or not, and whether their tracks were seen along the river and heading up SL trail from the bottom. But we don't know until they tell us.

MOO
 
  • #349
And you know, this research and discussion got me thinking. What if they had planned a one way hike, and had planned to Uber from the Yosemite Cedar Lodge at the base of Hites Mine Trail or at the Hite Cove Trailhead - both on Route 140. It would have been a less grueling venture (downhill). But maybe they took a wrong turn.
I wonder how many Uber drivers Mariposa County has.
 
  • #350
This does seem to be the most safe reaction to finding themselves down at the SF Merced in a heat situation where climbing back up (via either SL or HC trails) to their parked truck would be risky due to heat, sun exposure, and exertion.

Continuing on the HC trail northward makes sense for multiple reasons:

1: they would be travelling downhill instead of uphill

2: the river would remain nearby for instant cooling needs

3: once past Hite Cove itself, they would be more and more likely to encounter others who could call for help if needed

4: their own phone might have service, whereas it was 100% known "no service" along the trails below their truck (I'm not certain of this but suspect it)

5: as you say, even if they encounter no one else frolicking along the base of the South Fork, once they reached highway 140 they could certainly call for help/find someone to give them a ride back to their vehicle.

So, why didn't they do this? I have to agree with whoever posted how remarkable it is that in a month or more of us desperately seeking some logic from this case, no one seems to have thought of this before.

I can think of only two scenarios that make sense to me as to why they didn't take that option.

One, if they were sufficiently uninformed as to the topography and didn't actually realize that following the river downstream would put them at "civilization" in just a few miles (this seems less likely to me, since as hikers you'd think they would grasp the bigger topographical picture of where they were)

Two is if they simply didn't realize they were in such dire straits. They did not think the hike back up would be pushing the limits of life-and-death. (I think this more likely, though I can't understand why they thought this -- as I said earlier, the only way I think it would be safe to attempt to climb SL in that weather is to do it in the 4-6am range)

OK, I just thought of a third option. What if they never made it to the river? What if -- 100% speculation here -- what if they made it partway down the HC trail/OHV road, realized it was too hot to hike, and turned around, but instead of following the road/trail back the way they came, they thought they could cut straight across toward the truck? And ended up hiking cross country a ways and popped out onto the SL trail, either where they were found or a bit lower so they then had to climb?

LE knows, of course, whether their tracks went all the way down HC or not, and whether their tracks were seen along the river and heading up SL trail from the bottom. But we don't know until they tell us.

MOO

LE previously stated that they believe they hiked a loop, a map was posted in several media links in earlier threads with the distance of doing the full loop + the bit back to where the truck was parked to get 8.5 miles. MOO.
 
  • #351
trail-us-california-hites-cove-trail-at-map-62381350-1612569296-1200x630-3-6.jpg
 
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  • #352
rsbm
Stanback was a philanthropist and outdoorsman, who my brother-in-law worked with on land trust projects in North Carolina. My BIL told me no one who knew Stanback could believe he died in such a manner. If there had not been witnesses, would Stanback be another mystery?
OMG, I didn't realize the connection. There's conservation awards and nature preserves all around NC named after the Stanback family.
 
  • #353
I mentioned on another post that on my most recent desert hike my companion and I passed two couples with babies in backpack carriers. This was on a very hot day One of the babies already appeared to be very sunburned.

This very sunburned baby...were the parents really young?

JG was a 45-50 yr old man. Not a kid. At that age, he had been around the block enough to know that life is perilous, that even if we aren't aware of it, we spend our days being vigilant of perils, dodging them, even when we do a simple walking across the street, before the first step off the curb is taken we look both ways. EC, young, but no doubt had the rather common delusion of young adults that they are invincible, had that delusion shattered when she had the TBI some years previously.
 
  • #354
So @RedHaus 's brilliant map work got me thinking and mapping. My rendition is from GoogleEarth (if I've gotten it small enough to load) and shows the "loop." What's fascinating to me is that if they went down the Hites Cove Road Trail from Hites Cove Road (the trail is really a continuation of the road) and got to the river, they would have had plenty of shade, especially at the river. By enlarging the access to the SL Trail at the Merced River, I can also see that it starts out in shade and continues a bit with coverage. Once they hit the switchbacks, they were doomed. It appears that they could not see the severity of the trail until it was too late and they'd gone too far.

I never thought they'd gone the whole loop, but seeing the vegetation on Google Earth, I can imagine it now.

I also believe, imo, they were working entirely from memory. I do not believe they had a map, or if they did have a downloaded map, I believe it was for the wrong Hites Cove trail, as some of you have theorized. OR, more importantly, they only had a digital trail map, which did not show the area and escape. A topo map would have done that.

I don't have a GoogleEarth account and can't share my project directly, but here's a screenshot. I hope you can enlarge and see the trails' vegetation.

Green is Hites Cove Road Trail
Blue is Merced River
Orange is SL
Purple is Hites Cove Road
 

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  • #355
LE previously stated that they believe they hiked a loop, a map was posted in several media links in earlier threads with the distance of doing the full loop + the bit back to where the truck was parked to get 8.5 miles. MOO.
Yes, I agree that LE stated this. But IMO they may have assumed that based on tracks leading down HC and no tracks leading up HC nor down SL. Possibly parts of each trail are too hardpacked or rocky to have easily followable tracks. Unless/until cross-country tracks were found, the loop may have been the only reasonable assumption LE could make. And possibly more tracks were found after their public statement which they did not correct publicly.

That said, I'm not assuming this is what the family actually did, just that it's a possibility we haven't yet considered in discussion.
 
  • #356
Likely reposting what others did a while ago, but I find this helpful for reference:


Causes of Death Ruled Out: The following have been ruled out based on evidence recovered or through investigation. ALL other potential causes of death remain.

Gun or any other type of weapon

Lightning Strike

Carbon Monoxide

Carbon Dioxide

Cyanide Exposure

Illegal Drugs / Alcohol

Suicide

Update Mariposa Sheriff’s Office – Gerrish / Chung Investigation | Sierra News Online

Can others here provide a simple list of what they think is still included?
 
  • #357
I wonder how many Uber drivers Mariposa County has.
Well, certainly we can switch out "Uber" with other means of transportation... maybe they left a second car there... maybe they were going to call a friend for a ride. :)
 
  • #358
So @RedHaus 's brilliant map work got me thinking and mapping. My rendition is from GoogleEarth (if I've gotten it small enough to load) and shows the "loop." What's fascinating to me is that if they went down the Hites Cove Road Trail from Hites Cove Road (the trail is really a continuation of the road) and got to the river, they would have had plenty of shade, especially at the river. By enlarging the access to the SL Trail at the Merced River, I can also see that it starts out in shade and continues a bit with coverage. Once they hit the switchbacks, they were doomed. It appears that they could not see the severity of the trail until it was too late and they'd gone too far.

I never thought they'd gone the whole loop, but seeing the vegetation on Google Earth, I can imagine it now.

I also believe, imo, they were working entirely from memory. I do not believe they had a map, or if they did have a downloaded map, I believe it was for the wrong Hites Cove trail, as some of you have theorized. OR, more importantly, they only had a digital trail map, which did not show the area and escape. A topo map would have done that.

I don't have a GoogleEarth account and can't share my project directly, but here's a screenshot. I hope you can enlarge and see the trails' vegetation.

Green is Hites Cove Road Trail
Blue is Merced River
Orange is SL
Purple is Hites Cove Road

Fixing quoting

Interesting, thanks. I do think if they had stood at the top of S-L and looked down the plan might have been changed. MOO. Did Google Earth give a year for the images? Something I looked up on GE had 2017 photos, which would be before the fire.
 
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  • #359
Likely reposting what others did a while ago, but I find this helpful for reference:
Update Mariposa Sheriff’s Office – Gerrish / Chung Investigation | Sierra News Online
Can others here provide a simple list of what they think is still included?
Well, @Snoopster. Others have digested this along with me, so I am doing this from memory and if I get any of this wrong, let me know. I will add, that Admin has OK'd us exploring homicide as long as we don't name any third party persons by name or role or any such thing and continue to be victim (the JG/EC family) friendly.

Causes of Death - What is off the List:
  • Gun or any other type of weapon
  • Lightning Strike
  • Carbon Monoxide
  • Carbon Dioxide
  • Cyanide Exposure
  • Illegal Drugs / Alcohol
Causes of Death - What is On the List:
  • Overdose of prescription, over the counter, other "legal drugs"
(note: it appears that Fentanyl may be considered legal vs. illegal based on its formulation or how acquired/used)
  • Poisoning by pesticides or other man-made substance (e.g. Ethylene Glycol)
  • Heat stroke, dehydration, etc.
  • Natural toxins such as from algae or plant poisons
  • Everything else not off the list
Manner of Death - What is Off the List:
  • Suicide
Manner of Death - What is On the List:
  • Homicide
  • Accident
  • Natural
  • Undetermined
 
  • #360
So @rahod1, this is a very helpful graphic, but it is of Hite Cove Trail to Hite Cove - where the family did not hike that day (that we know of!).

Your intent though may be just to provide us with a reality check that if the family had continued on the Hites Cover OHV Trail rather than go South/West along the South Fork Merced River, it would have added 8 miles - and would likely not have saved them. So for comparison, can you do the same with two other scenarios:

1) the suspected (by LE) loop of Hites Cove OHV Trail to some unnamed river road along the South Fork Merced to Savage-Lundy trail, and
2) Hites Cove OHV Trail until it terminates at the far right point of your red line here, down to the Hites Mine Trail to Route 140 (down those switchbacks)?

I think it would be helpful to get a sense of the distance we are talking about in that heat, as to what would have been reasonable alternatives or perhaps initial plans?
 
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