CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #5

[CocoChanel]

So I continue to follow with interest, but can’t help wondering if we will never hear anything again, has a conclusion been found that is inconclusive and the families have accepted that?
However some of the recent comments also got me thinking and I had two thoughts, neither of which add more, but rather just my pondering.
The first references the baby- maybe she was a grisly baby generally, some are, and the walk was the only thing that gave the parents breathing space even whilst she grumbled in the carrier- this may have created a lapse in judgement and led to them failing to notice a deterioration in the child’s health.
Second- the heat, if it was hot when they were still moving, the dog would have burnt or damaged paws- something which has never been mentioned in all the articles I have read.
These two comments add very little of use, just merely some thoughts I had, I’m surprised we didn’t hear anything at all over the dogs necropsy.

Hi Ruthbullock, and thanks for your recent thoughts.
Your quote above was BBM.
I am not familiar with the term “grisly baby”. I think I can surmise what it might mean, but would like to hear from you what that description would entail in regards to a baby. I imagine it is a figure of speech that has local meaning, but not to all. Instead of assuming a definition, it would help to understand from you how you apply that term.
Thanks a bunch!

 

[Ruthbullock]

Hi Ruthbullock, and thanks for your recent thoughts.
Your quote above was BBM.
I am not familiar with the term “grisly baby”. I think I can surmise what it might mean, but would like to hear from you what that description would entail in regards to a baby. I imagine it is a figure of speech that has local meaning, but not to all. Instead of assuming a definition, it would help to understand from you how you apply that term.
Thanks a bunch!

A baby who is teething, or attachment issues- lots of causes, but a baby who cries a lot, not through lack of care, but just one who is very vocal is the best way I can try to describe it. I had a friend with PTSD who would walk a lot with her baby as whilst he would still cry and grumble, she could clear her head and zone out a little bit. However in this case it maybe that the baby was crying (I say crying but at that age it tends to be grumbling and babbling) due to teething, but this then changed to discomfort suffering from the heat, but it was not noticeable and the parents didn’t react until there were other signs eg silence

 

[NSamuelle]

So I continue to follow with interest, but can’t help wondering if we will never hear anything again, has a conclusion been found that is inconclusive and the families have accepted that?
However some of the recent comments also got me thinking and I had two thoughts, neither of which add more, but rather just my pondering.
The first references the baby- maybe she was a grisly baby generally, some are, and the walk was the only thing that gave the parents breathing space even whilst she grumbled in the carrier- this may have created a lapse in judgement and led to them failing to notice a deterioration in the child’s health.
Second- the heat, if it was hot when they were still moving, the dog would have burnt or damaged paws- something which has never been mentioned in all the articles I have read.
These two comments add very little of use, just merely some thoughts I had, I’m surprised we didn’t hear anything at all over the dogs necropsy.

I’m also surprised we have not heard anything about the necropsy. Results typically take 3 weeks (see link), and it has been almost 9. They would not even have to venture a diagnosis to release discrete findings like dehydration, burnt pads, etc., yet zero information has been released. https://www.mwuanimalhealth.com/diagnostic-pathology-center/faqs

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Hi Ruthbullock, and thanks for your recent thoughts.
Your quote above was BBM.
I am not familiar with the term “grisly baby”. I think I can surmise what it might mean, but would like to hear from you what that description would entail in regards to a baby. I imagine it is a figure of speech that has local meaning, but not to all. Instead of assuming a definition, it would help to understand from you how you apply that term.
Thanks a bunch!

I haven't ever encountered that term either @CocoChanel so I looked it up. Apparently "grizzle" is a UK verb meaning "to complain". The Cambridge Dictionary mentions applying it to babies: "The baby was cutting a tooth and grizzled all day long."

 

[RickshawFan]

BBM
Well, @Lex Parsimoniae, I believe you are assuming that having a "small amount" of water left in their bladder meant they had hiked a fair distance. But for that assumption to be true, doesn't it require the family started their day with a full or nearly full bladder? But we actually have no idea how much water they started with.

We also don't know if there were other empty bottles. Most important, was EC carrying her own pack? For them to carry more water than one bladder (2-3 liters), she'd almost certainly have to have been carrying a pack, because the weight of a lot of water plus the baby would have been too much for JG.

 

[RickshawFan]

@jonjon747 bbm sbm. Respectfully, do we know as a fact that S&R covered the entire loop "without much struggle or causing any serious health issues"???
I don't recall temps on day & time of couple's hike, compared to temps when S&R conducted searches, two days later, iirc.

Pls bear in mind, I've not read all posts here or all Sheriff's/LE/S&R releases on this, but I doubt their mission was a piece of cake. Just wondering. my2ct.

SAR level of fitness is in a different dimension. There's no space where JG and EC can be compared with SAR on that score! Plus, JG and EC had a baby and a dog.
IIRC, but I can't recall exactly, at least one member of the SAR team had heat-related issues. The LE instruction to SAR was to "go down the switchbacks". The victims were soon found. Nowhere is LE reported to have issued the order: "do the whole loop".

 

[jonjon747]

I don't believe the reports ever said the footprints were confirmed as theirs, but LE was quoted in the early news articles as saying the footprints and pawprints found were consistent with the family -- to me that means prints from one dog and two adults, one large enough to be appropriate for someone of JG's height and hiking weight and one of appropriate size for someone of EC's height and hiking weight.

Once the family was found, it's possible they also confirmed the print treads matched the shoes they were wearing, but if they did that it hasn't been reported publicly.

MOO

I'm still confused as to why LE is yet to be more open about their findings.
I recall that in Philip Kreycik's case, it was later concluded as heat stroke along with release of a very detailed description of GPS data collected from his smartwatch. It was confirmed the man was wandering all over after going off the trail.

If LE had found the prints that were very consistent with the Mariposa family, why not release any info with photos to bring this case to rest once and for all?

Toxic tests returned not much being helpful and that may indicate they were not entirely poisoned whether it was accidental or by someone else.

That brings this case to last most likely scenario which is obviously what many expect here, a sequence of heat stroke.

 

[RickshawFan]

With all due respect everyone IMO we are back at square one as I've read some of the recent posts upto now. The reason I say this is because first of all this family knows this area. Secondly they have friends who know these trails who have hiked here. Thirdly the JG/EC have done this trail in the past so it just doesn't make sense that they would take the baby and dog out on this particular day the hottest day up to that point. Something is not right here. Even as other posts have mentioned that hikers would turn back upon realizing it was too hot it didn't happen here is the general assumption. However since they know the area they would have taken these factors into consideration IMO.

Do you have sources for your points, especially firstly, secondly, and thirdly? Those are not details I've seen in our sources so far IIRC.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

We also don't know if there were other empty bottles. Most important, was EC carrying her own pack? For them to carry more water than one bladder (2-3 liters), she'd almost certainly have to have been carrying a pack, because the weight of a lot of water plus the baby would have been too much for JG.

Yeah, the sheriff said “They’re smart, they know hiking and what type of gear you need or don’t need for the amount of time you’re out there, and it appears it was a day hike.” But he only mentions one water bladder. 2-3 liters is typical, but I checked, they're available up to 6 liters. We probably won't get much more detail until the case is closed, if then. What would be cool is if Matthias Gafni (author of the excellent "Not One Clue" article about this case) would write an in-depth article, like his "One Hiker's Peak of Desperation" article. I just sent him an email asking him to do that.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Yea, @Lex Parsimoniae! Maybe Gafni has a source.

 

[SophieRose]

Here was the weather alert for August 15, 2021:
Weather Service Reports Excessive Heat Sunday and Monday for the San Joaquin Valley, Kern County Desert, and Coastal Range – High Temperatures in Yosemite Up to 110 Degrees

Mariposa projected high temperature for Sunday: 101 degrees, Monday: 102 degrees
Oakhurst projected high temperature for Sunday: 103 degrees, Monday: 105 degrees
Yosemite Valley projected high temperature for Sunday: 110 degrees, Monday: 109 degrees

 

[rahod1]

Yeah, the sheriff said “They’re smart, they know hiking and what type of gear you need or don’t need for the amount of time you’re out there, and it appears it was a day hike.” But he only mentions one water bladder. 2-3 liters is typical, but I checked, they're available up to 6 liters. We probably won't get much more detail until the case is closed, if then. What would be cool is if Matthias Gafni (author of the excellent "Not One Clue" article about this case) would write an in-depth article, like his "One Hiker's Peak of Desperation" article. I just sent him an email asking him to do that.

BBM
They had a Camelbak according to LE interview. The biggest is 3L
Buy Reservoirs And More | CamelBak

 

[IceIce9]

BBM
They had a Camelbak according to LE interview. The biggest is 3L
Buy Reservoirs And More | CamelBak

For 3 people and a dog they would need more than 3L of water. I wonder if they were carrying bottles of water, and a dog dish.

 

[rahod1]

For 3 people and a dog they would need more than 3L of water. I wonder if they were carrying bottles of water, and a dog dish.

It's recommended that 4L per person be carried for all day hike (8 hrs). They probably planned for less, but 3L for 2 adults, a child and a dog would be woefully insufficient.
Hydration Basics.
" A good general recommendation is about a half liter of water per hour of moderate activity in moderate temperatures. You may need to increase how much you drink as the temperature and intensity of the activity rise. For example, strenuous hiking in high heat may require that you drink 1 liter of water or more per hour. "

 

[IceIce9]

It's recommended that 4L per person be carried for all day hike (8 hrs). They probably planned for less, but 3L for 2 adults, a child and a dog would be woefully insufficient.
Hydration Basics.
" A good general recommendation is about a half liter of water per hour of moderate activity in moderate temperatures. You may need to increase how much you drink as the temperature and intensity of the activity rise. For example, strenuous hiking in high heat may require that you drink 1 liter of water or more per hour. "

Has it been reported whether a dog dish was found? Most hikers would carry a collapsible dog dish for water.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Yea, @Lex Parsimoniae! Maybe Gafni has a source.

He interviewed a LOT of people for that Bolen article! He knows his business.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

BBM
They had a Camelbak according to LE interview. The biggest is 3L
Buy Reservoirs And More | CamelBak

According to the "Not One Clue" article "The family also had a backpack with a bladder that held a small amount of water, the sheriff said", but the Camelbak brand name is like Thermos or Kleenex, it gets used as a general term for any brand of "water bladder". It does seem unlikely that it was larger than 3L, as they aren't common, but MSR for example makes 4L and 6L bladders.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Has it been reported whether a dog dish was found? Most hikers would carry a collapsible dog dish for water.

That level of detail hasn't been released, to my knowledge. It is common practice, though. Our dog is used to drinking directly from a bottle, but if we were in a situation where every drop counted, a dish would be the way to go. MOO

 

[rahod1]

According to the "Not One Clue" article "The family also had a backpack with a bladder that held a small amount of water, the sheriff said", but the Camelbak brand name is like Thermos or Kleenex, it gets used as a general term for any brand of "water bladder". It does seem unlikely that it was larger than 3L, as they aren't common, but MSR for example makes 4L and 6L bladders.

BBM
Perhaps, but *Camelbak* is not the most popular....MOO>> Doesn't qualify to reach *generic* status. So I take what LE said as fact. If they wanted to do what you say, then they should have said *Camelbak Style* bladder, but they identified it as a Camelbak bladder. MOO

 

[rahod1]

That level of detail hasn't been released, to my knowledge. It is common practice, though. Our dog is used to drinking directly from a bottle, but if we were in a situation where every drop counted, a dish would be the way to go. MOO

I can't imagine them not providing the dog with a bowl for water. This begs the question>> How did they provide water for the infant. A bladder won't cut the mustard. MOO