CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

[happyday]

My question is more specific. IMO Oski would have collapsed not that long into the hike. Were his paws burnt? If not it doesn't make sense that he was able to continue in this condition of such extreme heat. I still think something happened early on in their hike that may have spooked them to continue.

Dogs are loyal to the death and would continue on with the family literally until they fall over dead. Would the paws be burned from the dirt? I doubt it. I have no doubt the dog could have and would have done this hike as long as the family was walking. I mean, we don’t know who of all of them was the first to become incapacitated—it could have been Oski and they all stopped and eventually succumbed.

I think they continued just because that was the plan, and they felt relatively fine until they were at the bottom of the canyon. Going home meant hiking all the way UP as the heat climbed and that’s what did them in IMO.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

The Sheriff stated that he had never seen a case of HS/death in the area in the 20 years he had been there. What does that tell you about this case? The aerial view of SL trail shown today was absolutely frightening. I can't imagine this family traversing that steep barren landscape in the raging heat. I guess they felt they had no choice at that point.

Locals avoid the trail from late spring to fall. Many AT comments from late spring talk about the heat. I think that is why they have not seen more incidents. But, Chuck Stone posted on the MCSO FB that he had a close call in summer, also on the switchbacks. And he had experience with heat as a CALFIRE chief and recognized the signs but when you are at much lower elevation than the trailhead still and there is no cell service there are no good options. He, his wife and his dogs, one of whom burned paws and one who had to be carried, were lucky to survive. I do worry that now people will be drawn to the trail, I think that the current closure may save lives.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

LE had never raised keys as an issue, that was speculation by a poster on WS raised repeatedly. MOO.

 

[RickshawFan]

I totally agree there were errors, but wouldn’t sleeves make you hotter? I always hike in tank tops and shorts and sometimes a hat, but often not. I hike in Texas hill country, New Mexico and Colorado mostly, so definitely in heat. I can’t imagine hiking in long sleeves!

I do not understand no dog bowl though and they only had a bladder. How was the dog to drink any water?

It can actually be very much cooler to hike in long sleeves, but not just any kind. My favorite are “safari shirts”. They’re nylon, have collars and buttons. They keep your UV exposure down. Plus, they dry really fast. The combination of the wicky fabric and the fast-drying pulls sweat off you and cools you down.
The collars are designed so you can unroll them at the neck to protect the nape.
I always hike in one over a singlet. I always keep it open.
Pants? In those conditions, definitely.
The wide-brimmed hat goes almost without saying. Hat=Shade. I believe going hatless in a sunny canyon like that (and certainly on water) could make you blind, at least temporarily. I haven’t researched this.

There’s a reason they’re called “safari shirts”: you use them in hot weather.

The Gerrish Chungs must literally have fried just from sun exposure. They had to have been out there for several hours. And the canyon was reflecting heat and sun back onto them.

On the AT, I generally hiked in a skirt, or skirt and long underwear. With the advent of long nylon pants, I currently hike in those.

Long pants are mosquito/tick-preventative, too.

I wonder what the Gerrish Chungs were wearing for socks and footwear? I wouldn’t be surprised if they had developed severe blisters.

Recall, there was no shade for their whole trip. I’m not familiar with most of Texas, so don’t know about greenery. But Big Bend? (Or the Grand Canyon AZ for another example). No question, I’d be in a safari shirt, long pants, huge hat. Lugged hiking boots of some kind, wool socks (you read that right), and probably scree gaiters if my boots were ankle height.
Hope that helps!

 

[K9Enzo]

What a terrible and sad end for all of them. This had to be insanely uncomfortable, confusing and just a feeling of overwhelming desperation. We also don't know the condition of each before they even set out that day. They might not have been well hydrated to start with.

I'm shocked by the amount (lack) of water they believe they had and no bowl for the dog. It's important during elevated activity a dog be able to take a deep drink, not crazy gulping water intake. I have athletic dogs and ask a lot of them. I know their resting vs. working body temps and signs to look for distress (bulging eyes, shade seeking, tongue floppy subtle loss of muscle tone, slight tripping, etc.). I have a hard stop on activity in high temps and hate direct sunlight myself. After elevated activity where the heart rate will be increased, I was advised years ago not to crate right away, but to bring the dog down by a slow leisurely stroll. I don't expect pet owners to get into this much detail but please be very mindful of your dogs during hikes, some are not conditioned and even those that are can drop dead just like that. IMO IMO

 

[RickshawFan]

I still think that so much of what we say is "commonsense" is actually learned behavior. If you have not grown up in a family that was active in hiking, going to National Parks, you don't "know" how to cope in an environment where you can't just buy a hat and a drink at the next kiosk, like you can at Disneyland.

I think that is part of the problem here.

I agree with that, but I also think most posters here, if in error, stepped on the trail in those conditions, would have realized they were in a danger zone within 30 minutes because the temperature was rising so fast. You’d have turned around.

 

[happyday]

I’d like to know who was the ‘witness’ who saw the vehicle at 7.45am driving in the direction of Hites Cove and again saw the vehicle parked at the trailhead 15 minutes later. Was this person out on a hike? Did they know the family or were they just visitors to the area? If he/she was walking in the same direction there are only two paths to take (the same as Jon and Ellen). The one which LE says Jon and Ellen took to the left and the on the right, the Savage Lundy where they were found.
Surely the same conditions prevailed for this person? Where did they go? What did they see? If they had continued on the same trail as Jon and Ellen wouldn’t he/she have passed them being less encumbered? If he/she chose to trek down SL trail to the right, what was their experience? Obviously, at least one other person didn’t think it strange to be out walking that way on a hot Sunday morning - but nobody else.

It could be the witness was finishing up an early morning walk. Here in South Texas you don’t see many people out on our trails after 10:00am or so in the summer, but definitely people get in their walks/town hikes early in the day.

Everywhere I’ve hiked I always see someone setting out on a hike as I am finishing up. I never understand it. There are dangers of different kinds in different places. Here in Texas it’s the heat. In Colorado I never go too late because of afternoon thunderstorms/lightning. It’s not a good idea, but people do it. Maybe the witness who saw them even thought it was unusual that they would be starting a hike at that “late” time? Or maybe they thought they must just be doing a small walk—not a big hike?

 

[Pumphouse363]

Dogs are loyal to the death and would continue on with the family literally until they fall over dead. Would the paws be burned from the dirt? I doubt it. I have no doubt the dog could have and would have done this hike as long as the family was walking. I mean, we don’t know who of all of them was the first to become incapacitated—it could have been Oski and they all stopped and eventually succumbed.

I think they continued just because that was the plan, and they felt relatively fine until they were at the bottom of the canyon. Going home meant hiking all the way UP as the heat climbed and that’s what did them in IMO.

It could be the witness was finishing up an early morning walk. Here in South Texas you don’t see many people out on our trails after 10:00am or so in the summer, but definitely people get in their walks/town hikes early in the day.

Everywhere I’ve hiked I always see someone setting out on a hike as I am finishing up. I never understand it. There are dangers of different kinds in different places. Here in Texas it’s the heat. In Colorado I never go too late because of afternoon thunderstorms/lightning. It’s not a good idea, but people do it. Maybe the wit who saw them even thought it was unusual that they would be starting a hike at that “late” time? Or maybe they thought they must just be doing a small walk—not a big hike?

It’s my understanding that the witness saw the vehicle driving towards the trailhead and the same witness saw it parked with no one around 15 minutes later. There’s only one road they were driving on so if the witness was returning from their hike they couldn’t have seen them 15 minutes earlier. MOO

 

[happyday]

It can actually be very much cooler to hike in long sleeves, but not just any kind. My favorite are “safari shirts”. They’re nylon, have collars and buttons. They keep your UV exposure down. Plus, they dry really fast. The combination of the wicky fabric and the fast-drying pulls sweat off you and cools you down.
The collars are designed so you can unroll them at the neck to protect the nape.
I always hike in one over a singlet. I always keep it open.
Pants? In those conditions, definitely.
The wide-brimmed hat goes almost without saying. Hat=Shade. I believe going hatless in a sunny canyon like that (and certainly on water) could make you blind, at least temporarily. I haven’t researched this.

There’s a reason they’re called “safari shirts”: you use them in hot weather.

The Gerrish Chungs must literally have fried just from sun exposure. They had to have been out there for several hours. And the canyon was reflecting heat and sun back onto them.

On the AT, I generally hiked in a skirt, or skirt and long underwear. With the advent of long nylon pants, I currently hike in those.

Long pants are mosquito/tick-preventative, too.

I wonder what the Gerrish Chungs were wearing for socks and footwear? I wouldn’t be surprised if they had developed severe blisters.

Recall, there was no shade for their whole trip. I’m not familiar with most of Texas, so don’t know about greenery. But Big Bend? (Or the Grand Canyon AZ for another example). No question, I’d be in a safari shirt, long pants, huge hat. Lugged hiking boots of some kind, wool socks (you read that right), and probably scree gaiters if my boots were ankle height.
Hope that helps!

Thanks! It does help. I know there’s science behind it—it just seems so counterintuitive to cover up in such high heat. Maybe it’s partly the humidity here and just the fact that I don’t hike in such extreme heat period. I do usually wear a hat when there aren’t trees and shade. And I also wear wool socks. Their hike sounds so miserable to me.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Locals avoid the trail from late spring to fall. Many AT comments from late spring talk about the heat. I think that is why they have not seen more incidents. But, Chuck Stone posted on the MCSO FB that he had a close call in summer, also on the switchbacks. And he had experience with heat as a CALFIRE chief and recognized the signs but when you are at much lower elevation than the trailhead still and there is no cell service there are no good options. He, his wife and his dogs, one of whom burned paws and one who had to be carried, were lucky to survive. I do worry that now people will be drawn to the trail, I think that the current closure may save lives.

But the ‘witness’ was out walking at the same time and was, presumably going in the same direction? That’s why it would be interesting to know if he/she is local and whether they experienced similar discomfort.

 

[RickshawFan]

OK, one water bladder. Was it confirmed one backpack (the baby carrier with reservoir combo)? With the scaled-down water and gear 50 lbs (minimum) was being hauled on this journey. All by one person in an ill-fighting pack?

That’s a guess I made about the one pack. It’s actually not very common to have 3 liter Camelbaks in women’s packs because the bladder is too long. For comparison, my new pack (a women’s model) can theoretically fit a 3 liter bladder, but this hasn’t been a common thing, and I’m not sure it wouldn’t be tower over the loop you hang it on. So, yeah, theoretical. If I get a photo of EC’s pack, I can tell you.

If it was a 2.5 liter bladder in the GC pack, my experience would be an Osprey (not a Camelbak or non-Osprey Hydrapak). Osprey bladders tend to have a lot of plastic and are unusually bulky and very long. I don’t know for sure with this couple, though. I’m saying this because the pieces are assembling in my head into a picture from experience, not because I have information that others don’t.

So far, logic doesn’t seem to be working well. It’s possible they didn’t even fill the bladder to 2.5 liters. We only know the capacity, not how much they took.

Also, IME you wouldn’t drink much if you have a Camelbak attached to someone else’s pack. It’s awkward. The whole point of carrying a bladder is so you can be drinking more regularly than having to stop and fish out a water bottle.

Again, I’m making a guess about whether she was carrying a pack.

 

[happyday]

But the ‘witness’ was out walking at the same time and was, presumably going in the same direction? That’s why it would be interesting to know if he/she is local and whether they experienced similar discomfort.

It is interesting and I wonder what they were doing as well, but I bet it was just a walk and not actually going down into the canyon? Maybe there are places to hike/walk around the area without going down onto the actual trails? I don’t know.

 

[RickshawFan]

You are suggesting, I think, that JG carried all the weight (water and baby) and that the backpack didn’t fit him properly? Also that water carried was scaled back so the bladder would fit inside the same backpack?

That bladder size will fit in the baby pack. There’s generally a sleeve for it, though I don’t have one right in front of me.

 

[IceIce9]

Locals avoid the trail from late spring to fall. Many AT comments from late spring talk about the heat. I think that is why they have not seen more incidents. But, Chuck Stone posted on the MCSO FB that he had a close call in summer, also on the switchbacks. And he had experience with heat as a CALFIRE chief and recognized the signs but when you are at much lower elevation than the trailhead still and there is no cell service there are no good options. He, his wife and his dogs, one of whom burned paws and one who had to be carried, were lucky to survive. I do worry that now people will be drawn to the trail, I think that the current closure may save lives.

I, too, have thought that people will be drawn to hike this trail, possibly resulting in more tragedy.

Much like people are drawn to hike the Stampede Trail in Alaska where Chris McCandless died. At least two hikers have died and several have had to be rescued attempting to hike to the place where his remains were found.

 

[IceIce9]

I totally agree there were errors, but wouldn’t sleeves make you hotter? I always hike in tank tops and shorts and sometimes a hat, but often not. I hike in Texas hill country, New Mexico and Colorado mostly, so definitely in heat. I can’t imagine hiking in long sleeves!

I do not understand no dog bowl though and they only had a bladder. How was the dog to drink any water?

Definitely hiking in long, loose clothing that covers as much skin as possible is the way to go when it is hot. You want to shield as much skin as possible from the sun. A hat that has a cloth in the back that covers your neck is best.

A hat, long, loose sleeves and long hiking pants will keep you cooler than shorts, tank top, and no hat.

 

[RickshawFan]

BBM. What's the source for the ill-fitting pack? Was this part of the PC today?

Baby packs actually don’t fit very well. Plus, they are “one size fits all”, which almost always means “fits no one correctly”. And Gerrish was a large guy.
Plus, because of the baby, the weight sits far from the body, unlike a regular pack. This adds to the burden.
Plus, they may not have had instructional fit in the store, got the baby situated, etc. This takes quite a bit of finessing.
For all these reasons, IMO the OP is very likely correct.

 

[RickshawFan]

I was thinking about San Francisco this morning, due to my recent reflections on the values and lifestyle of that city, and an element of yoga came to mind: bikram yoga, also called “hot yoga”.

Ellen as a practitioner of yoga was surely familiar with Bikram yoga, where one sustains temperatures of 105 degrees for 90 minutes in a closed room while performing yoga.

She may or may not have been an expert in bikram yoga per se, but as a yoga person she surely had some level of familiarity or experience in it.

What if the weather forecast did not phase her because she was accustomed to those temps?
What if Jon had participated in a few of those classes with her? And he too was not phased?

It could be one reason that they thought it would be ok to hike in those same high temps.

This does not explain taking the baby and the dog because young children (let alone babies) should not participate in the temperatures of bikram.
Bikram Yoga for Kids — Bikram Yoga Nairobi

But perhaps it explains their lack of preoccupation about the high temps before setting out?

moo and truly just a theory

What a great likelihood! Like bikram yoga while hiking? You might very well be right.

 

[Yvettea]

But the ‘witness’ was out walking at the same time and was, presumably going in the same direction? That’s why it would be interesting to know if he/she is local and whether they experienced similar discomfort.

It was 74° to 76° at 7:45.

 

[Recidivist]

LE had never raised keys as an issue, that was speculation by a poster on WS raised repeatedly. MOO.

They told us yesterday the keys were found in the dirt, on the trail.

 

[happyday]

It was 74° to 76° at 7:45.

I think this is key when trying to figure out WHY they went. 70’s is very comfortable, especially in dry heat. I think it’s so easy to not think ahead to the last part of the hike when starting out. We SHOULD do that, but they aren’t the first to not think ahead and won’t be the last. I’ve done it and got myself into quite a pickle once in New Mexico desert. It was the only time I was actually scared, but thankfully I made it. I started out way too late for how hot the last hour or so would be at the end where there was no shade—no trees. It happens a lot, but most of the time we scrape by and learn from it. Sometimes, tragically, we don’t scrape by.