CA CA - Lydia "Dia" Abrams, 65, Idyllwild, 6 Jun 2020

[Curious Me]

MOO, odd way he has of shifting his eyes. He doesn't really say when "she talked about going to reign in the horses". I find it a sneaky way of implying that's what happened when I doubt it was so that day. I am impressed if she really did this, walking alone working with her horses, on a regular basis. I think she should have had her gun, her phone, and probably her dog if she did this on a steady basis. She was reported missing on June 7th by someone.

Starting at around the 2:07 mark-- "She leaves her purse on the counter. She talks about going to reign in the horses." I'm wondering when did she say that?

 

[slowpoke]

MOO, odd way he has of shifting his eyes. He doesn't really say when "she talked about going to reign in the horses". I find it a sneaky way of implying that's what happened when I doubt it was so that day. I am impressed if she really did this, walking alone working with her horses, on a regular basis. I think she should have had her gun, her phone, and probably her dog if she did this on a steady basis. She was reported missing on June 7th by someone.

Starting at around the 2:07 mark-- "She leaves her purse on the counter. She talks about going to reign in the horses." I'm wondering when did she say that?

It’d be useful to know Dia’s daily routine regarding tending to the horses in Garner Valley, which if I’m recalling correctly, is 7 miles from the ranch home.

I know nothing about caring for horses, even as far as feeding. How often does one them? We heard they went in the morning to feed them. Do they put enough feed to last the day, or was it her practice to go back there in the PM to feed them again? What is reining horses, anyway? Exercising them?

If going in the late afternoon/ evening, like you, I have my doubts she would walk 7 miles there and back. Walking 7 miles there could take about 2 hrs+20 min. (est. 1 mile = 20 min). If it were me, I would drive. Unless I’m mistaken regarding the distance, and it’s a lot closer. MOO

 

[Curious Me]

Just want to share that I've seen David Gotfredson (Investigative Producer) on News8 covering other cases. He does a great job and always makes it interesting. I hope he continues covering this case. It'd be great if he interviewed some of Dia's friends, and even better if he got an interview with her family.

David reported on this case tonight and I thought I'd share it here.
Suspect pursued in Baja murder of San Diego couple | cbs8.com

Harper told David that Dia moved properties into her trust because "there was a threat to her life". I wish David had asked him more about that threat...

I can't figure out what her intentions were to transfer to her trust. I don't believe what KH says because he keeps implying others wanted to harm her.

Would the threat be the liability of having those illegal grow sites on her rented property in some way? Years ago, it might have meant more serious charges, but I think now enforcement may include the seizure and destruction of your crop. It still left her open to dangers of people wanting to steal it, etc., Was she going along with renting to growers or was she demanding something change immediately? What was on her mind that she wanted to "talk"?
I have no idea, just speculating here.
Cannabis Cultivation Law Enforcement

Q: How can you prove that [you had nothing to do with Dia's disappearance]?
KH: I can prove it because I loved the woman...

He says he loved her and that's proof he didn't harm her, and yet he left town while she was mysteriously missing. He's the one that keeps saying she was in danger, and yet he doesn't stick around to help her. Geez, he calls that love?

It’d be useful to know Dia’s daily routine regarding tending to the horses in Garner Valley, which if I’m recalling correctly, is 7 miles from the ranch home...

I'm so glad you doubt it, too, and also pointed out they just were with the horses that morning. Seven miles one way is no easy or safe walk. Wow, was she in that great of shape that she did that on a regular basis?

 

[slowpoke]

Just want to share that I've seen David Gotfredson (Investigative Producer) on News8 covering other cases. He does a great job and always makes it interesting. I hope he continues covering this case. It'd be great if he interviewed some of Dia's friends, and even better if he got an interview with her family.

David reported on this case tonight and I thought I'd share it here.
Suspect pursued in Baja murder of San Diego couple | cbs8.com


I can't figure out what her intentions were to transfer to her trust. I don't believe what KH says because he keeps implying others wanted to harm her.

Would the threat be the liability of having those illegal grow sites on her rented property in some way? Years ago, it might have meant more serious charges, but I think now enforcement may include the seizure and destruction of your crop. It still left her open to dangers of people wanting to steal it, etc., Was she going along with renting to growers or was she demanding something change immediately? What was on her mind that she wanted to "talk"?
I have no idea, just speculating here.
Cannabis Cultivation Law Enforcement

He says he loved her and that's proof he didn't harm her, and yet he left town while she was mysteriously missing. He's the one that keeps saying she was in danger, and yet he doesn't stick around to help her. Geez, he calls that love?

I'm so glad you doubt it, too, and also pointed out they just were with the horses that morning. Seven miles one way is no easy or safe walk. Wow, was she in that great of shape that she did that on a regular basis?

I don’t know a whole lot about legal stuff, but maybe there’s really nothing unusual about Dia putting her assets onto a Trust; just smart estate planning, perhaps?

On the site Legalzoom, it says: (bolding by me)
Will vs. Living Trust: What's Best for You?

A living trust provides lifetime and after-death property management. If you are serving as your own trustee, the trust instrument will provide for a successor upon your death or incapacity. Court intervention is not required.

Livings trusts also are used to manage property. If a person is disabled by accident or illness, the successor trustee can manage the trust property. As a result, the expense, publicity, and inconvenience of court-supervised distribution of your estate can be avoided.

It got me wondering: who had she named as “successor trustee”? Who will be handling her financial affairs while she is missing, in accordance to her Trust? We don’t know the answer, of course, but what a complicated situation. KH claimed to not know the details of the Trust, (in his interview, iirc) so does that mean he wasn’t named the successor trustee?

Is KH living on the ranch and caring for the property and her animals, or did she have ranch hands who tended to the horses and such?

I have to remind myself we are a victim-friendly forum, but I don’t think anyone can disagree KH’s behavior is/was not typical. Leaving to go out of state for his businesses two days after Dia goes missing. His manner of speech delivery during his interview seemed flat and unemotional. I mean, it could be his normal way of talking, I guess, or maybe it’s possible he was just tired from having to relate the events of that day many times over...?

 

[Curious Me]

... It got me wondering: who had she named as “successor trustee”? Who will be handling her financial affairs while she is missing, in accordance to her Trust? We don’t know the answer, of course, but what a complicated situation...

?????? I don't understand why she made those transfers, but the timing seems incredibly important.

Did this have something to do with her future wedding date? Did she just find out she was terminally ill? Did she recently find out something that made her fear for her life? Did she get threats on her life?

MOO, it's so odd her children have not spoken in these three months, and her fiancé hasn't stopped talking. I definitely think LE has spoken to her children extensively.

The below link is from the August 19th news article and lists the five parcels. It also has an early August video KH did with KTLA. He says at the end that "it's time to get alarmed, time to get serious, and time to find out what's going on".

Former La Jolla woman transferred property before disappearing near Idyllwild | cbs8.com

"News 8 has learned that Abrams signed off on a series of property transfers just two weeks before she went missing."

"The records show she transferred a total of five parcels from her name into a December 2016 trust entitled Dia Kenshalo Abrams Trust."

"The transfers included a parcel with elaborate ranch houses in Apple Canyon, a nearby house to the west of the ranch, and another house in Garner Valley, where friends said Abrams kept some of her horses."

"The trust itself was not recorded. So, details of the trust and exactly who might stand to inherit the properties remain private."

 

[slowpoke]

?????? I don't understand why she made those transfers, but the timing seems incredibly important.

Did this have something to do with her future wedding date? Did she just find out she was terminally ill? Did she recently find out something that made her fear for her life? Did she get threats on her life?

MOO, it's so odd her children have not spoken in these three months, and her fiancé hasn't stopped talking. I definitely think LE has spoken to her children extensively.

The below link is from the August 19th news article and lists the five parcels. It also has an early August video KH did with KTLA. He says at the end that "it's time to get alarmed, time to get serious, and time to find out what's going on".

Former La Jolla woman transferred property before disappearing near Idyllwild | cbs8.com

"News 8 has learned that Abrams signed off on a series of property transfers just two weeks before she went missing."

"The records show she transferred a total of five parcels from her name into a December 2016 trust entitled Dia Kenshalo Abrams Trust."

"The transfers included a parcel with elaborate ranch houses in Apple Canyon, a nearby house to the west of the ranch, and another house in Garner Valley, where friends said Abrams kept some of her horses."

"The trust itself was not recorded. So, details of the trust and exactly who might stand to inherit the properties remain private."

Again using Legal Zoom:
When to Change Your Living Trust

Whenever there is a significant change that affects your life or property, it's time to review your estate plan to determine if you need to change your living trust.

Most lawyers and financial advisors suggest that when it comes to estate planning, you should review your estate plan every three to five years. After all, things change, which means you should review your will and any living trusts to ensure that they include everything you want them to include. It's also advisable to review them regularly to make sure they're current.

She was widowed, she was getting older, she was going to remarry, she was a multi-millionaire, she maybe had gotten estranged from her kids—those sound like good reasons to review her financial situation, and perhaps amend her Will and in her instance, create a Trust.

I’m a little uncomfortable posting much of personal details, but to support my point: my parents were far from rich, but they put their assets into Trust many years ago. It recently got amended when we realized there were important changes that may affect the original Trust—my mother passed, as well as the successor trustee, and my father’s health was declining.

As you said, I think it very likely her upcoming marriage plans got her thinking she needed to have an attorney take a look at her estate situation.

 

[stuntpuppy]

What I'm not buying just yet is him saying he has no idea who she transferred the properties over to...They are getting married and she's the love of my life but we don't talk about her money affairs?
Also that he doesn't even know who her attorney is?
Innocent until proven guilty but this old stuntman has his doubts.
This is a great story though...I'm really interested to see how it comes out.
They found all that pot just up the road at their other property and he is an ex-drug enforcement officer and I'm sure he claims no knowledge...you can't make this stuff up!
I work in Hollywood and our stories aren't this interesting....
He would know that this would start a search that would lead them to the pot so if he knew it was there he would have waited until they sold it or maybe he couldn't?
So many things to sort out...Deep down inside I hope she got cold feet and took off for a while. But leaving her purse and phone behind is not encouraging.
We wait.........

 

[Curious Me]

Read--

He must have done whatever work as LE or Drug Enforcement before his own troubles. It seems LE does know who KH is, as well as the others in the area listed, as someone pointed out early in the last thread.
Quality of life improvement saturation patrol • Idyllwild Town Crier

He's getting a lot of mileage on formerly working as a Parole Officer in Utah, if true. Isn't that what he said? For how long? IMO, he's moved around a lot. Anyways, he's the one that was on LE's radar just last year, and it wasn't on the side of LE, but in their eyes a RSO.

They found all that pot just up the road at their other property and he is an ex-drug enforcement officer and I'm sure he claims no knowledge...you can't make this stuff up!

Hope you stick around and add more of your thoughts and speculations. It's an intricate case. I want to know how she felt about the grows on her property she rented out. To whom? Was she cool with it? I also have to remind myself that Covid-19 was causing financial troubles for everyone. Plus she had a Wedding Venue and Airbnb business going on. She had the horses, the fiancé and probably farm hands, she had a lot going on!

Read--

... The gent in question had a specific shirt on about a Jeep tour...
I googled the name and jeep tours... and... this came up.
Durango outfitter found guilty of groping snowmobilers
And this....
Rivers Outlaw & Jeep Tours Inc
Not saying that incidences in past represent today's reflection, but if you were in LE, specifically drug enforcement at one time, that may shed light on some things like current feelings (grow houses), I also don't see anything that represented violence here either.

True, not violent crimes, but forceful perhaps. I noticed from your first link, he must have been married to someone else in 2011.

ETA-- All MOO, and all my own thoughts, subject to change as more info becomes available.

 

[coastal]

What I'm not buying just yet is him saying he has no idea who she transferred the properties over to...They are getting married and she's the love of my life but we don't talk about her money affairs?
Also that he doesn't even know who her attorney is?
Innocent until proven guilty but this old stuntman has his doubts.
This is a great story though...I'm really interested to see how it comes out.
They found all that pot just up the road at their other property and he is an ex-drug enforcement officer and I'm sure he claims no knowledge...you can't make this stuff up!
I work in Hollywood and our stories aren't this interesting....
He would know that this would start a search that would lead them to the pot so if he knew it was there he would have waited until they sold it or maybe he couldn't?
So many things to sort out...Deep down inside I hope she got cold feet and took off for a while. But leaving her purse and phone behind is not encouraging.
We wait.........

Welcome to Websleuths, stuntpuppy! Glad to have you here!

 

[coastal]

Possibly of interest (about an hour west of Garner Valley):

7 killed in shooting at illegal marijuana grow operation in Riverside County, Sheriff’s Dept. says | FOX 5 San Diego

7 killed in shooting at illegal marijuana grow operation in Riverside County, Sheriff’s Dept. says

by: Tony Kurzweil
Posted: Sep 8, 2020 / 10:02 AM PDT / Updated: Sep 8, 2020 / 10:02 AM PDT
>>>snip

AGUANGA, Calif. (KTLA) — A search is underway for whoever is responsible for the shooting deaths of seven people at a suspected illegal marijuana growing operation in the unincorporated Aguanga area.

Deputies responded to an assault with a deadly weapon call in the 45000 block of Highway 371 just after 12:30 a.m. Monday, the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department stated in a news release...

...Investigators say evidence at the location indicated it was being used as an illegal marijuana growing facility...

More than 1,000 pounds of marijuana and several hundred marijuana plants were found at the location...

...The shooting appears to have been an isolated incident. Investigators do not believe there is threat to the general public.

...Anyone with information is asked to call the Sheriff’s Department at 951-955-2777.

...Aguanga is located about 20 miles east of Temecula.

<<<snip

 

[stuntpuppy]

Welcome to Websleuths, stuntpuppy! Glad to have you here!

Thank you and glad to be here...I am very interested in this story and all your ideas and opinions....we'll all ride this out together.

 

[Curious Me]

Possibly of interest (about an hour west of Garner Valley):
7 killed in shooting at illegal marijuana grow operation in Riverside County, Sheriff’s Dept. says | FOX 5 San Diego
7 killed in shooting at illegal marijuana grow operation in Riverside County, Sheriff’s Dept. says
by: Tony Kurzweil
Posted: Sep 8, 2020 / 10:02 AM PDT / Updated: Sep 8, 2020 / 10:02 AM PDT
>>>snip

AGUANGA, Calif. (KTLA) — A search is underway for whoever is responsible for the shooting deaths of seven people at a suspected illegal marijuana growing operation in the unincorporated Aguanga area.

Deputies responded to an assault with a deadly weapon call in the 45000 block of Highway 371 just after 12:30 a.m. Monday, the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department stated in a news release...

...Investigators say evidence at the location indicated it was being used as an illegal marijuana growing facility...

More than 1,000 pounds of marijuana and several hundred marijuana plants were found at the location...

...The shooting appears to have been an isolated incident. Investigators do not believe there is threat to the general public.

...Anyone with information is asked to call the Sheriff’s Department at 951-955-2777.

...Aguanga is located about 20 miles east of Temecula.

<<<snip

^^^ This is exactly why I wonder if Dia was cool with her rental property being used to grow pot. Not sure, but most likely it was an illegal grow. Even if a legal grow, MOO, it adds a great deal of liability and danger, and would require added security measures. MOO, I'd be afraid of all the dangers it brings. After all, even legal 420 shops get robbed at gun point and people get killed. Look at the seven people killed in the above article.

Makes me wonder if KH was mowing the meadow or... ??? Also, I'm not sure he could legally own a gun yet. Who was going to protect Dia from unexpected visitors. I would hope he would advise Dia of all the dangers that business can entail. Was she aware and agreeing to her rental property being used for growing? Or perhaps she gave someone an ultimatum? Does this have anything to do with Dia being missing?

Search warrants served in case of missing former La Jolla woman | cbs8.com

"Riverside detectives also served search warrants on other properties owned by Dia Abrams, including the Sky High Ranch, a rental property located a mile and a half west of Abrams' Bonita Vista Ranch."

"Officers seized more than 2,300 marijuana plants and 357 pounds of processed marijuana, according to the warrant. The records do not indicate who had been renting the property from Abrams."

"Lowry, the Idyllwild real estate agent, said marijuana grows are common in the general area, and they sometimes can be booby-trapped."

“It’s not unusual on this mountain at all,” Lowry said. “They have shotgun shells that you can trip the wire and blow your foot off with a shotgun shell; or, get sliced with razor blades if you're in their harvest.”

Just Saying, but it's all MOO and Bolded by Me.

 

[coastal]

^^^ This is exactly why I wonder if Dia was cool with her rental property being used to grow pot. Not sure, but most likely it was an illegal grow. Even if a legal grow, MOO, it adds a great deal of liability and danger, and would require added security measures. MOO, I'd be afraid of all the dangers it brings. After all, even legal 420 shops get robbed at gun point and people get killed. Look at the seven people killed in the above article.

Makes me wonder if KH was mowing the meadow or... ??? Also, I'm not sure he could legally own a gun yet. Who was going to protect Dia from unexpected visitors. I would hope he would advise Dia of all the dangers that business can entail. Was she aware and agreeing to her rental property being used for growing? Or perhaps she gave someone an ultimatum? Does this have anything to do with Dia being missing?

Search warrants served in case of missing former La Jolla woman | cbs8.com

"Riverside detectives also served search warrants on other properties owned by Dia Abrams, including the Sky High Ranch, a rental property located a mile and a half west of Abrams' Bonita Vista Ranch."

"Officers seized more than 2,300 marijuana plants and 357 pounds of processed marijuana, according to the warrant. The records do not indicate who had been renting the property from Abrams."

"Lowry, the Idyllwild real estate agent, said marijuana grows are common in the general area, and they sometimes can be booby-trapped."

“It’s not unusual on this mountain at all,” Lowry said. “They have shotgun shells that you can trip the wire and blow your foot off with a shotgun shell; or, get sliced with razor blades if you're in their harvest.”

Just Saying, but it's all MOO and Bolded by Me.

My highlight in red. What!? They raided the property, seized thousands of pot plants plus 357 pounds more and they didn't bother with who was renting the house? Didn't they care who rented the house? Who got busted? Somebody must have gotten busted, right? And somebody is out an entire harvest - or two. Same person? Different people? We need to know who rented the house. And the land. Who tended buds, who worked security? Where are they now? Who lost what? Who pays?

I'm getting a bad feeling about these two (three?) cases involving marijuana grows, all so close together. I don't like it. I makes me worry in a new way for Dia.

But. No evidence of a connection, so there's that.

 

[coastal]

Interesting. I just noticed that the article about the raid on Dia's property says

Officers seized more than 2,300 marijuana plants and 357 pounds of processed marijuana

and the article about the murders, says

More than 1,000 pounds of marijuana and several hundred marijuana plants were found at the location.

 

[Curious Me]

Interesting. I just noticed that the article about the raid on Dia's property says... snipped to reply

That is interesting. You've sparked my thoughts to consider yet another angle. This is such a complex case! There's more than a couple of reasons or motives to consider why Dia went missing three months ago.

I know Dia had an apple orchard and her animals she loved. She had the unique wedding venue and Airbnb businesses going on. I'm trying to imagine how she felt about having this other business on her property.

I saw the WS thread for that other case you posted about.
Websleuth's thread: Seven murdered, Marijuana operation Riverside Co, CA
Reading how that one woman was found alive, but didn't make it was very sad. This other article describes some of what's going on and what a grow business on your property entails. It's a totally different vision than that pleasant video of Dia's property posted earlier on this thread.
With 7 dead, California pot ranch is tied to organized crime
MOO, this is a rather sad and upsetting look at the ugly side of growing.
In my opinion, we should consider if this type of thing had anything to do with Dia's disappearance, and even the property transfers into her trust.

Please know this is all my own thoughts and MOO.

 

[coastal]

That is interesting. You've sparked my thoughts to consider yet another angle. This is such a complex case! There's more than a couple of reasons or motives to consider why Dia went missing three months ago.

I know Dia had an apple orchard and her animals she loved. She had the unique wedding venue and Airbnb businesses going on. I'm trying to imagine how she felt about having this other business on her property.

I saw the WS thread for that other case you posted about.
Websleuth's thread: Seven murdered, Marijuana operation Riverside Co, CA
Reading how that one woman was found alive, but didn't make it was very sad. This other article describes some of what's going on and what a grow business on your property entails. It's a totally different vision than that pleasant video of Dia's property posted earlier on this thread.
With 7 dead, California pot ranch is tied to organized crime
MOO, this is a rather sad and upsetting look at the ugly side of growing.
In my opinion, we should consider if this type of thing had anything to do with Dia's disappearance, and even the property transfers into her trust.

Please know this is all my own thoughts and MOO.

Agreed. I think the conflict with her family about money may have pressured Dia to take some risks with her property, in order to support herself and her future. Horses are expensive. She had all of that equity, just sitting there. All of that potential. The trust thing with her husband's estate was stalled, but still eating money, and there were bills and employees to pay. And they made it easy on her, she'd just rent out a house, one house, to a nice couple, no worries there... and look the other way. And the money would soon come rolling in to her clean hands. But maybe there was competition, or turf, or something, and she crossed some line. Maybe she changed her mind. Maybe she just found out what was happening on her land. I'm guessing, here. But I think it makes some sense.

 

[Curious Me]

Agreed. I think the conflict with her family about money may have pressured Dia to take some risks with her property, in order to support herself and her future... snipped to reply...

I do think it's possible she decided to take a risk and rent out to growers. It distresses me to think of all the added dangers involved in that decision.

How well did she know the people renting that parcel of land to grow pot, and how involved were she or KH in the operation? It's hard to ignore that going on only a mile or so away.

There were twenty people mentioned working at that grow site with 7 dead in the news this week. It just stands to reason, having a grow site on her property would add an element of danger to her, the guests, and and it is also said to be hard on the environment and property.

But maybe there was competition, or turf, or something, and she crossed some line. Maybe she changed her mind. Maybe she just found out what was happening on her land. I'm guessing, here. But I think it makes some sense.

It does make sense that the grow site might have something to do with Dia's disappearance. It has been three months now. She missed her 66th birthday, and the supposed wedding date set for July.

Why aren't her family and friends voicing more outrage? Are they afraid for some reason? Well, I'm waiting for LE to announce a break in the case very soon because I believe several things may link together.

I understand guessing and speculating in many different directions as to what happened to Dia. Me too. MOO, it's complex.

 

[coastal]

Did you see this article I posted last night in the thread for the seven murders in Aguanga? Copy of that post:
>>>snip

There's apparently a lot of - activity? - surrounding the illegal sale of marijuana in southern California right now:

CBS News 8 - San Diego, CA News Station - KFMB Channel 8 | cbs8.com | cbs8.com

Chula Vista announces closure of all illegally-operated marijuana shops

CHULA VISTA, Calif. — The city of Chula Vista claims that all its illegally-operated marijuana dispensaries have all been shut down. According to Lieutenant Dan Peak of the Chula Vista Police Department, the city had dozens of illegal marijuana dispensaries at work. The operation to shut each location down took over a year and concluded on Aug. 28, Peak said...

...According to the department, the operations have resulted in the following:

• 34,636,000 million in marijuana products seized (Retail Value)
• 10 felony arrests
• 16 misdemeanor arrests
• 133 Advisory Warnings (formal warning to stop selling illegal marijuana)
• 6,063,073 million in cash seized
• 23 firearms recovered
• 15 misdemeanor guilty pleas by defendants from warrant operations in 2019

(article continues)

<<<snip

According to this article, at least 30 of these illegal "dispensaries" were shut down in CV, which is 80 miles from Augunga, or an hour and twenty-two minutes, south.

I have been to several of the businesses listed, and never noticed any obvious bad guys/thugs, but then again I'm old enough that everybody associated with weed sseems cool. I didn't see any cops, either...but they were clearly paying attention. So much for my sleuthing skills.

I guess my point is, marijuana is big business around here. There are bound to be conflicts. For the most part, things get resolved, legally and peaceably, and life goes on. What made this one illegal grow op so deadly? SMH

<<<snip
Its all a bit too close for comfort, isn't it? That said, there will be some hard feelings among growers who distribute to CV pot shops, and while I have no idea if the pot grown on Dia's land was intended for that market, the timing of the CV busts is too close to her disappearance, for me to ignore.

Hope our friend and reporter David Gotfredson has one end of the string that ties everything together. If they do.

Hey, David? Yoo-hoo!

 

[Desert Cruiser]

It doesn't have the appearance that peeps responsible for the grow were involved, it almost seems they were surprised due to the processed product still onsite.
It they were involved I don't think they would leave close to $500k in processed product behind knowing they were involved... MOO

 

[stuntpuppy]

Went to Idyllwild for Dinner yesterday. On the way back I told my wife more about the story. We went right bye the road and decided to go take a look. My conclusion on her walking to Garner Valley is out. Nobody would walk that far on that road when they had a car or truck. It's out in the middle of no place and rugged. A long ways back to the main road as well. Got to see the ranch although you can't see a lot from the road.