GUILTY CA - Madyson Middleton, 8, Santa Cruz, 26 July 2015 - #3 *Arrest*

[margarita25]

rsbm
I think it is very important to try and understand how we can identify, and/or recognize when a depressed or 'awkward' teen has actually moved into the perp danger zone. JMO

(O/T, I've got a 10 year old student that I've been seriously worried about in this regard...(I think I've mentioned him before)...Violent outbursts (he violently attacked his grandmother), eyes and a detachment that are difficult to describe; he is one in a few thousand or so students percentage wise in my experience as far as the severity and the level of my concern (I've been teaching quite a while)...He got on meds recently (for ADHD, I believe? His grandma told me bipolar runs in his family)...what an amazing difference since the meds. He's doing great now, but I still worry about him). (FTR, No, I'm not saying pediatric ADHD (and/or bipolar) is a precursor to committing rape and murder!)

(Eta: He cracked a really sweet, cute and funny joke to me today and that to me confirmed progress. He smiled from the heart; I had not seen him do that before...all these perps are children at some point...my main goal as a teacher is to help give them any coping tools, positive/constructive outlets, confidence, support, anything and everything that could possibly help prevent any of these terrible things...).

(Eta: His family lets him play violent video games all the time (the kind where you pick out different weapons and mow people down with blood splattering everywhere)...I strongly disagree with this. I'm not blaming it all on that, but imo he needs to be participating in other, more positively enriching activities. In his particular case, his mother is not around much (thank goodness for his awesome grandma!). His mom works a lot, I GET IT, but imo he needs her more now than ever...JMO as a teacher on the front lines).

 

[margarita25]

Oh good grief. I didn't know. These poor little girls. It's making me cry. It's just so so so so sad and sick. How do these mothers pick up the pieces and go on? We need to continue to remember these mothers in our prayers. I can't imagine how I would have the strength to get out of bed in the morning knowing what happened to my sweet innocent child.

Yes, remember the mothers...Jessica's mother's name is Sarah, if you'd like to keep her in your prayers.

 

[Mamamerced]

@ human,
Thanks for doing the research and posting those informative articles on child/parent bonding, or lack thereof, and brain wiring.

 

[Madeleine74]

The reality is unless every parent is educated (and then tested) on exactly what to look for, there won't be detection of potential evilness in children. Again, most parents do not think their own children would ever hurt someone else, unprovoked. And even if they did know what to look for, most parents would automatically assume their son or daughter was pure and innocent because that's just how people roll.

It's not a common occurrence, which is why it makes such big news nationally and internationally when something like this case happens.

Everyone says "I just want to stop this from happening again." So how are you helping to stop it? What are you gonna do... lock up all kids between the ages of 10 and 18 just in case one of them might be a future killer?

 

[AmyPond]

I did read the whole thing....sacrificed for what "good"? I'll just stop....my mind can't comprehend all the good that this little girls murder has brought. :facepalm:

I think it's most likely just her way of coping with the loss of her daughter. Trying to find some sort of good in the worst possible situation. My heart goes out to her.

 

[AmyPond]

I think it's also important for teachers to be educated on warning signs. Unfortunately, most aren't. And I don't know how schools are these days. But when I was in school, our counselor was rarely even seen. I think counselors need to be more active in seeing children after teachers see red flags. Maybe some schools are like this but ours definitely wasn't.

 

[Lilibet]

(O/T, I've got a 10 year old student that I've been seriously worried about in this regard...(I think I've mentioned him before)...Violent outbursts (he violently attacked his grandmother), eyes and a detachment that are difficult to describe; he is one in a few thousand or so students percentage wise in my experience as far as the severity and the level of my concern (I've been teaching quite a while)...He got on meds recently (for ADHD, I believe? His grandma told me bipolar runs in his family)...what an amazing difference since the meds. He's doing great now, but I still worry about him). (FTR, No, I'm not saying pediatric ADHD (and/or bipolar) is a precursor to committing rape and murder!)

(Eta: He cracked a really sweet, cute and funny joke to me today and that to me confirmed progress. He smiled from the heart; I had not seen him do that before...all these perps are children at some point...my main goal as a teacher is to help give them any coping tools, positive/constructive outlets, confidence, support, anything and everything that could possibly help prevent any of these terrible things...).

(Eta: His family lets him play violent video games all the time (the kind where you pick out different weapons and mow people down with blood splattering everywhere)...I strongly disagree with this. I'm not blaming it all on that, but imo he needs to be participating in other, more positively enriching activities. In his particular case, his mother is not around much (thank goodness for his awesome grandma!). His mom works a lot, I GET IT, but imo he needs her more now than ever...JMO as a teacher on the front lines).

Also OT: Big hugs from the wife of a retired teacher! You may be making a bigger difference for this little boy than you will ever know. Or, maybe in 25 years you will hear from him, thanking you. This has brought joy to my dh from a few of his students.

 

[human]

I think it's also important for teachers to be educated on warning signs. Unfortunately, most aren't. And I don't know how schools are these days. But when I was in school, our counselor was rarely even seen. I think counselors need to be more active in seeing children after teachers see red flags. Maybe some schools are like this but ours definitely wasn't.

In my state, for several years now, in order to get a teaching license or in order to renew, you have to take classes on warning signs of mental health issues as well as interventions.

AJ may have been depressed. I don't know. I would be very depressed if I was a monster like him. And I say this because of the depravity of what he did to a little " friend". Not that either is OK but doing it to a child he has interacted with just disgusts me to no end.

I think his suicide talk was all to get people enmeshed into his web of control. He talked about it but no attempts?

Teens are so sweet in how they do come to the aid of those they see crying out. They need to learn the signs of a psychopath, I feel.

He had so many people involved in positive interactions with him. Being the counselor at the camp, for instance.

Someone that kills with such savageness and then hangs around while the search goes on.

Since I can't talk in generalities about things that could have impacted him, Here are some things.

Father- violent and was imprisoned.

Mother probably traumatized by cheating boyfriend(s) in a country where she is foreign ( I can speak to this as I retired to a country where I do not speak the language nor am I part of the culture. It is a very humbling experience although hubby, and I are now part of the community even though communication is a huge issue as well as understanding what the social norms are. The people are so sweet to us.)

Not having enough income must have been very challenging and stressful.

They were homeless. Who watched him while she worked? How much energy was available because of stress in life?

Throwing a wine glass at him bothers me a lot. I find that interesting behavior.

I am wondering if he does have a juvenile record. LE said they cannot discuss if he has a record. If he did not, would they not say it?

 

[Lilibet]

That is correct. We do not know what happened with him. Trust destroyed is much different than what a stranger does to someone. There has been no bond that has been perverted.

It is not ethical to do studies in children using different depravations. Not sure if this would be ethical today, but here is the famous Harlow's monkeys study.

http://muskingum.edu/~psych/psycweb/history/harlow.htm

I've heard of this study, but thank you for the detailed article.

 

[LinasK]

(O/T, I've got a 10 year old student that I've been seriously worried about in this regard...(I think I've mentioned him before)...Violent outbursts (he violently attacked his grandmother), eyes and a detachment that are difficult to describe; he is one in a few thousand or so students percentage wise in my experience as far as the severity and the level of my concern (I've been teaching quite a while)...He got on meds recently (for ADHD, I believe? His grandma told me bipolar runs in his family)...what an amazing difference since the meds. He's doing great now, but I still worry about him). (FTR, No, I'm not saying pediatric ADHD (and/or bipolar) is a precursor to committing rape and murder!)

(Eta: He cracked a really sweet, cute and funny joke to me today and that to me confirmed progress. He smiled from the heart; I had not seen him do that before...all these perps are children at some point...my main goal as a teacher is to help give them any coping tools, positive/constructive outlets, confidence, support, anything and everything that could possibly help prevent any of these terrible things...).

(Eta: His family lets him play violent video games all the time (the kind where you pick out different weapons and mow people down with blood splattering everywhere)...I strongly disagree with this. I'm not blaming it all on that, but imo he needs to be participating in other, more positively enriching activities. In his particular case, his mother is not around much (thank goodness for his awesome grandma!). His mom works a lot, I GET IT, but imo he needs her more now than ever...JMO as a teacher on the front lines).

Work on getting him to verbally express his frustrations and anger rather than doing it physically. That was a big factor I saw when I was working with abused teens. When I asked how they'd tell someone off, the typical response was, "I wouldn't/I don't know, I'd just punch 'em!"

 

[LinasK]

The reality is unless every parent is educated (and then tested) on exactly what to look for, there won't be detection of potential evilness in children. Again, most parents do not think their own children would ever hurt someone else, unprovoked. And even if they did know what to look for, most parents would automatically assume their son or daughter was pure and innocent because that's just how people roll.

It's not a common occurrence, which is why it makes such big news nationally and internationally when something like this case happens.

Everyone says "I just want to stop this from happening again." So how are you helping to stop it? What are you gonna do... lock up all kids between the ages of 10 and 18 just in case one of them might be a future killer?

Yes, but the opposite extreme (which I've witnessed amongst our own family) is to give too much freedom to the point of neglect. When there is no parental supervision, how can you know how your child is developing??/

 

[Inthedetails]

"Madyson Middleton’s mom befriends mother of daughter’s suspected killer: 'We both lost our children that day'"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-fault-mom-suspected-killer-article-1.2314207

 

[human]

Yes, but the opposite extreme (which I've witnessed amongst our own family) is to give too much freedom to the point of neglect. When there is no parental supervision, how can you know how your child is developing??/

I don't know if things have changed , but I learned there are basically three parenting styles. Authoritarian, authoritative and the laissiez faire. The authoritative works. The other two cause big issues.

 

[human]

Found this. Actually four parenting styles. Authoritarian, authoritative, permissive and uninvolved.

http://theattachedfamily.com/?p=2151

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't have the answers. I don't have any children either. Just an insolent cat with "selective hearing."

 

[justwannahelp]

I don't have the answers. I don't have any children either. Just an insolent cat with "selective hearing."

Haha!!!

 

[Mamamerced]

I don't know if things have changed , but I learned there are basically three parenting styles. Authoritarian, authoritative and the laissiez faire. The authoritative works. The other two cause big issues.

There is also the energing style caled Respectful Parenting, which, at least, borrows from Montessori.
If you're on Facebook you can check out:
Janet Lansbury: Elevating Childcare
The Way Of the Peaceful Parent
Lisa Sunbury
I believe they have wensites also.
There are more which I'll post as I see them.

I have tried, mostly successfully, to use this approach with my grandson beginning when he was a few months old. It may sound awkward at first but it is effective if you stick with it.
I won't try to explain the approach other than to say it is grounded in respect for the infant/child and his/her ability to respond positively to this style. Don't give up; keep at it as it works.

 

[Madeleine74]

I fall more into the "permissive" parenting category. I spoil my pets with moderation, as nature intended. Little humans, however, would be a different matter.

 

[Madeleine74]

BUT...

even with the best parenting around, humans can be mercurial, quirky, and dangerous and a spectrum of behaviors can occur. Evil actions will always exist in the world.

 

[katydid23]

Also, the type of parenting that works with one child, might fail miserably with the next born. My son was always self motivated, responsible, and needed very little 'direction.' He was very simple 'to raise.' Then our daughter was born and I quickly learned that I needed a different 'style' to parent her. She was creative, adventurous, rebellious, and questioned authority. Kids are all very different and parents need to parent them differently, imo.