CA - Murder victims Identified as Rob Reiner and wife Michele - LA Dec 14 2025

[otto]

It looks like talking heads are looking for conspiracy in the decision to restrict public access to evidence related to the Reiner murders. Autopsy reports are trial evidence. If released prematurely in his high profile case, there will be thousands of 'expert' opinions relating autopsy results to sentencing options. The debate will continue for years.

"Multiple sharp force injuries" suggests both received a lot of stab wounds. If one parent received more than the other, imagine the speculation that would trigger! Autopsy information should be withheld until trial to ensure a fair trial for Nick. It's murder, not murder-entertainment.

For the record, withholding this type of information is routine in Canada ... only released during trial to ensure a fair trial for the accused.

"A Los Angeles Superior Court judge has agreed to bar the release of Robert Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner’s autopsy reports at the request of law enforcement investigating the death of the Hollywood legend and his photographer wife. ... The order restricts the public release of “any investigative information, notes, reports or photos” related to the death investigation, according to the document obtained by The Times on Monday.

The medical examiner’s office had previously confirmed their deaths were the result of homicide, listing the cause as “multiple sharp force injuries” in its public database.

The LAPD sought to seal the records “to ensure detectives from Robbery-Homicide Division learned of important information surrounding their deaths before the media and the public,” the department said in a statement The Times on Monday.

Judge blocks release of Rob Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner autopsy findings

A Los Angeles Superior Court judge has agreed to bar the release of Robert Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner’s autopsy reports at the request of law enforcement.

www.latimes.com

 

[Arkay]

IMO, Nick ultimately sold Rob on whatever he needed to hear. We know Rob already harbored much guilt for believing the "experts" and not his son about rehab. And we do know that Rob was promoting Nick and the film ("Being Charlie"), on the pretense that its screenwriter was in sobriety (the old fashion definition)-- living in a sober house, and it was Nick who soon confessed to a podcaster that "sobriety was a relative term," and he was living a lie....

I’ve had the impression since we first saw that interview that Rob was trying desperately to assuage Nick by telling Nick he was right and the people with “diplomas on the wall” were wrong.

That’s what happens when you’ve tried everything for years and literally nothing has worked. Listening to your own son instead of strangers may sound loving and trusting, but while you can love an addict with all your heart, trusting them is not effective. They are much better at manipulation than loving and trusting parents realize.

I know this from bitter experience.

JMO

 

[Arkay]

Eh, the kissing on the mouth stuff makes me uncomfortable, but I don’t begrudge it.

In my very affectionate family, I still would not kiss my mother or father on the lips, but I recognize that in some families it is the norm. I don’t see anything sinister or suggestive, just their way and so while I feel a little squirmy, I think that’s just a family habit, from Carl on down.

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

You can in CA. It's called A 5150- 72 hour involuntary psych hold. LE will come and take them.

I'm familiar with it, but it doesn't work exactly like that. You can only keep them for a MAXIMUM of 72 hours without going to court. Usually, what happens is they're brought in, evaluated by a mental health professional and either discharged or admitted (whether voluntary or involuntary). Generally, it's less than 12 hours. Only time they hold them for 72 hours without an admission or plan to admission (i.e. waiting for a bed) is if the presentation is so complicated, they need a lot more information/evaluation. This isn't all that common because the general rule of thumb is get them out of the emergency room (so either admit or discharge, or make it clear the person is boarding for a bed).

Once admitted involuntarily, the hospital generally has a set amount of time to go to court (sometimes another 72 hours, sometimes longer) to make the case for needing to keep them. If admitted voluntarily, then no court required.

 

[otto]

The LA Times article gives us enough information about the cause of death without needing access to autopsy results. Multiple sharp force injuries is not that their necks were cut, it's stabbed all over more than once.

I'm assuming that the cause of death for both was multiple sharp force injuries, so Nick stabbed one parent multiple times, then the other. That suggests a lot of anger. Maybe the final act with both was to cut their necks. If true, sounds like another one of his tantrums where his anger was focused on his parents rather than their property.

"The medical examiner’s office had previously confirmed their deaths were the result of homicide, listing the cause as “multiple sharp force injuries” in its public database."

 

[otto]

Meh, it's not always a choice. There are certain medical and psychiatric conditions that could make it more complicated. In someone with years of drug use, I'd worry about how it impacts the brain, possibly damages the parts of the brain that allow us to process information and make choices. Picture someone with behavioral issues in dementia. They're not making a choice to be angry or impulsive. Their brain has degenerated to the point that they can't control it. Similar things can happen with traumatic brain injuries and drug use. That's not an excuse for murder, of course. I'm just saying that controlling temper is not always a choice.

I'm not a doctor, but I would be inclined to put dementia, traumatic brain injury, and teenage anger in separate categories. All may present as angry, but I see the cause as mutually exclusive.

Dementia patients are often described as having "word salad". My interpretation is that people with dementia want to communicate, but lack words to accompany thoughts, and therefore become frustrated ... which is interpreted as irrational anger. It's possible that well meaning people presume that dementia clients have no thoughts, since the words don't make sense, but the reality may be loss of vocabulary to communicate thoughts. If people who have lost vocabulary, but retain reasoned thought, are treated as though they have no reasoned thought, frustration and anger is a normal response. It would be like having locked-in syndrome and being treated as though they are imbeciles. It's possible.

Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) is often described as "brain fog". A symptom of TBI is loss of vocabulary, similar to dementia. It is better understood that TBI vocabulary difficulties do not necessarily imply loss of reason or rational thought. The brain is remarkable in terms of re-wiring itself, so recovery from TBI often includes demonstrated proof that re-jigging vocabulary reveals rational thought. People who experience vocabulary difficulties after TBI, and who are treated as though they lack rational thought, will also demonstrate frustration; interpreted as anger.

Specifically, dementia and TBI have in common: loss of vocabulary, which, depending on the environment, can result in frustration; interpreted as anger.

The child who throws angry tantrums, and who continues to act out with angry tantrums as an adult, is not coping with communication interference. They have vocabulary, but they choose to physically lash out rather than take a deep breath and talk about their feelings. While lashing out as a child, and as an adult, they are aware of others' fearful reaction. I think that is a factor in the decision to lash out rather than verbally communicate.

We know that Nick started with tantrums as a young child, and still had tantrums in his 20s. Those angry outbursts are not caused by drug abuse. They pre-date drug abuse.

Does drug abuse damage the brain? Sure, as does a poor diet, dirty environment, and so on. Does drug abuse pre-dispose angry-murder? Doubt it.

 

[Cool Cats]

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[lohrtabitha]

So, to me, following through on that logic means there is are no moral guidelines (quaintly called "right" and "wrong": such as killing, stealing, lying, sexual assault or betrayal of commitments, choosing to be intoxicated), it's been replaced by the religion of brain chemistry and pychiatrists and psychologists are the priests of this new religion.

JMO

Until one walks in the shoes of having a mental illness, one can truly not understand the havoc the illness can bring. The neurological experts will be the assessors here. "A common misperception is that addiction is a choice or moral problem, and all you have to do is stop. But nothing could be further from the truth,” says Dr. George Koob, director of NIH’s National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. “Biology of Addiction.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I'm not a doctor, but I would be inclined to put dementia, traumatic brain injury, and teenage anger in separate categories. All may present as angry, but I see the cause as mutually exclusive.

Dementia patients are often described as having "word salad". My interpretation is that people with dementia want to communicate, but lack words to accompany thoughts, and therefore become frustrated ... which is interpreted as irrational anger. It's possible that well meaning people presume that dementia clients have no thoughts, since the words don't make sense, but the reality may be loss of vocabulary to communicate thoughts. If people who have lost vocabulary, but retain reasoned thought, are treated as though they have no reasoned thought, frustration and anger is a normal response. It would be like having locked-in syndrome and being treated as though they are imbeciles. It's possible.

Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) is often described as "brain fog". A symptom of TBI is loss of vocabulary, similar to dementia. It is better understood that TBI vocabulary difficulties do not necessarily imply loss of reason or rational thought. The brain is remarkable in terms of re-wiring itself, so recovery from TBI often includes demonstrated proof that re-jigging vocabulary reveals rational thought. People who experience vocabulary difficulties after TBI, and who are treated as though they lack rational thought, will also demonstrate frustration; interpreted as anger.

Specifically, dementia and TBI have in common: loss of vocabulary, which, depending on the environment, can result in frustration; interpreted as anger.

The child who throws angry tantrums, and who continues to act out with angry tantrums as an adult, is not coping with communication interference. They have vocabulary, but they choose to physically lash out rather than take a deep breath and talk about their feelings. While lashing out as a child, and as an adult, they are aware of others' fearful reaction. I think that is a factor in the decision to lash out rather than verbally communicate.

We know that Nick started with tantrums as a young child, and still had tantrums in his 20s. Those angry outbursts are not caused by drug abuse. They pre-date drug abuse.

Does drug abuse damage the brain? Sure, as does a poor diet, dirty environment, and so on. Does drug abuse pre-dispose angry-murder? Doubt it.

Well, they're different categories, but my point was brain damage, no matter the cause. Someone with dementia, someone with traumatic brain injury, and someone with chronic substance use all have some degree of damage to their brain and depending on where that damage is, it can and does impact emotions, impulsivity, disinhibition, ability to reason, and understanding of consequences. That was the point. It's not all about vocabulary or frustration.

With regard to word salad, that's a phrase that's been perverted by social media. It is a real thing, but it's been misunderstood and distorted online. Not everyone with dementia has "word salad" and not everyone with "word salad" has dementia. In fact, people who are drunk or high often exhibit "word salad" as do people who are coming out of anesthesia, etc. All it really means is incoherence because their words are strung together in an unusual way.

But word salad and inability to be understood is NOT often what drives behavioral disturbance in dementia. There's an entire field of study around this. There are many different causes, but my point was only that damage to brain structure can cause it.

The reference on TBI is very simplistic to the point of being irrelevant to the discussion about NR or my point about anger. There are many, many forms of TBI and while some may be described as "brain fog" that's generally in the case of concussion or post-concussive syndromes, not the type of TBI I'm referring to. A brain injury, say from lack of oxygen to the brain or mechanical impact like someone being beaten with a hammer or someone falling out of a window absolutely can lead to irreparable damage to the structure of the brain with the same impact on emotions, impulsivity, disinhibition, ability to reason, and understanding of consequences.

As for child tantrums, we don't know enough to know if this was by choice or not. I don't think we can dismiss neurodevelopmental disorders that can and do predispose someone to the same symptoms one would see with dementia and TBI. Was NR born on time? Were there complications with his birth (umbilical cord complications can cause TBI)? Was there an injury in infanthood/childhood? Did he meet all his milestones on time? Was there any type of damage to the brain as a child? Was he diagnosed with some type of disorder in childhood? Was he put on medications in childhood? Add substance to that, and there's no way any mental health professional worth their salt will argue he was making rational choices.

To clarify, I'm not saying he's not responsible for the murders. I'm saying that we know next to nothing about his medical history (that I've seen). We only know symptoms (like tantrums). There's no way we can say his anger was a "choice" yet.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

So, to me, following through on that logic means there is are no moral guidelines (quaintly called "right" and "wrong": such as killing, stealing, lying, sexual assault or betrayal of commitments, choosing to be intoxicated), it's been replaced by the religion of brain chemistry and pychiatrists and psychologists are the priests of this new religion.

JMO

Huh? Brain chemistry isn't a "religion." It's evidence-based medicine.

 

[Walela]

I'm wondering if NR's behavior when he was younger led to incidents that should have been handled legally and he was sent to rehab in place of facing the legal system. Is that why there were so many rehab stays? Who were his running buddies and where are they now? Did he hang with other children of other Hollywood actors, directors, producers, etc.?

I also wonder if his anger toward his parents might have started when he was 3 or 4 years old. If it's true that he was always given his way and watched over by his siblings and he ruled the house so-to-speak, IMO it's possible he developed the anger for not being allowed to fail and learn how to navigate the world and find his own skills. When he was learning to walk and busted his bottom, was someone always there to pick him up or did they step in too soon and not let him fall?

I'm still horrified to think that he waited to strike until they were asleep. Such a nasty cowardly thing to do.

 

[otto]

Well, they're different categories, but my point was brain damage, no matter the cause. Someone with dementia, someone with traumatic brain injury, and someone with chronic substance use all have some degree of damage to their brain and depending on where that damage is, it can and does impact emotions, impulsivity, disinhibition, ability to reason, and understanding of consequences. That was the point. It's not all about vocabulary or frustration.

With regard to word salad, that's a phrase that's been perverted by social media. It is a real thing, but it's been misunderstood and distorted online. Not everyone with dementia has "word salad" and not everyone with "word salad" has dementia. In fact, people who are drunk or high often exhibit "word salad" as do people who are coming out of anesthesia, etc. All it really means is incoherence because their words are strung together in an unusual way.

But word salad and inability to be understood is NOT often what drives behavioral disturbance in dementia. There's an entire field of study around this. There are many different causes, but my point was only that damage to brain structure can cause it.

The reference on TBI is very simplistic to the point of being irrelevant to the discussion about NR or my point about anger. There are many, many forms of TBI and while some may be described as "brain fog" that's generally in the case of concussion or post-concussive syndromes, not the type of TBI I'm referring to. A brain injury, say from lack of oxygen to the brain or mechanical impact like someone being beaten with a hammer or someone falling out of a window absolutely can lead to irreparable damage to the structure of the brain with the same impact on emotions, impulsivity, disinhibition, ability to reason, and understanding of consequences.

As for child tantrums, we don't know enough to know if this was by choice or not. I don't think we can dismiss neurodevelopmental disorders that can and do predispose someone to the same symptoms one would see with dementia and TBI. Was NR born on time? Were there complications with his birth (umbilical cord complications can cause TBI)? Was there an injury in infanthood/childhood? Did he meet all his milestones on time? Was there any type of damage to the brain as a child? Was he diagnosed with some type of disorder in childhood? Was he put on medications in childhood? Add substance to that, and there's no way any mental health professional worth their salt will argue he was making rational choices.

To clarify, I'm not saying he's not responsible for the murders. I'm saying that we know next to nothing about his medical history (that I've seen). We only know symptoms (like tantrums). There's no way we can say his anger was a "choice" yet.

I think that any attempt to argue not guilty by reason of insanity is impossible. Nick has a lifelong history of lashing out, and being told that it is wrong. He knows, regardless of impulse control, that destroying other people's property is wrong. It's not okay under any circumstances. That extends to murder.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I think that any attempt to argue not guilty by reason of insanity is impossible. Nick has a lifelong history of lashing out, and being told that it is wrong. He knows, regardless of impulse control, that destroying other people's property is wrong. It's not okay under any circumstances. That extends to murder.

I don't disagree with that. I was just commenting on anger and tantrums always being a choice in someone with chronic substance use and potentially other medical disorders. Doesn't mean it meets criteria for NGRI.

 

[Recidivist]

Huh? Brain chemistry isn't a "religion." It's evidence-based medicine.

Many things still unknown about the brain. Right?

Your longer post above was really good.

 

[angelainwi]

Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) is often described as "brain fog". A symptom of TBI is loss of vocabulary, similar to dementia. It is better understood that TBI vocabulary difficulties do not necessarily imply loss of reason or rational thought. The brain is remarkable in terms of re-wiring itself, so recovery from TBI often includes demonstrated proof that re-jigging vocabulary reveals rational thought. People who experience vocabulary difficulties after TBI, and who are treated as though they lack rational thought, will also demonstrate frustration; interpreted as anger.

RSBM

The TBI clients I worked with had deficits in their executive function areas which were quite debilitating, especially when combined with alcohol and meth in the cases I worked. I did not witness loss of vocabulary. I mainly saw the deficits in trying to lead a normal life. In all cases that I worked aggression was an issue. So they definitely all displayed irrational levels of anger, even if they were previously more docile.

 

[Walela]

It looks like talking heads are looking for conspiracy in the decision to restrict public access to evidence related to the Reiner murders. Autopsy reports are trial evidence. If released prematurely in his high profile case, there will be thousands of 'expert' opinions relating autopsy results to sentencing options. The debate will continue for years.

"Multiple sharp force injuries" suggests both received a lot of stab wounds. If one parent received more than the other, imagine the speculation that would trigger! Autopsy information should be withheld until trial to ensure a fair trial for Nick. It's murder, not murder-entertainment.

For the record, withholding this type of information is routine in Canada ... only released during trial to ensure a fair trial for the accused.

"A Los Angeles Superior Court judge has agreed to bar the release of Robert Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner’s autopsy reports at the request of law enforcement investigating the death of the Hollywood legend and his photographer wife. ... The order restricts the public release of “any investigative information, notes, reports or photos” related to the death investigation, according to the document obtained by The Times on Monday.

The medical examiner’s office had previously confirmed their deaths were the result of homicide, listing the cause as “multiple sharp force injuries” in its public database.

The LAPD sought to seal the records “to ensure detectives from Robbery-Homicide Division learned of important information surrounding their deaths before the media and the public,” the department said in a statement The Times on Monday.

Judge blocks release of Rob Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner autopsy findings

A Los Angeles Superior Court judge has agreed to bar the release of Robert Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner’s autopsy reports at the request of law enforcement.

www.latimes.com

If I had to guess, they don't want those results released because of the number of wounds and how many were inflicted after they were already dead. I'll be very surprised if there are no leaks.

 

[otto]

I don't disagree with that. I was just commenting on anger and tantrums always being a choice in someone with chronic substance use and potentially other medical disorders. Doesn't mean it meets criteria for NGRI.

Maybe Nick's serious anger issues were amplified and distorted through drug abuse?

 

[AuDHD]

I'm still horrified to think that he waited to strike until they were asleep. Such a nasty cowardly thing to do.

snipped by me. i don’t think that’s been confirmed as of yet. LE has not released a timeline, time of death, details about the crime like that. it’s been speculated they were asleep but we don’t know for sure.

 

[LadyL]

^^rsbm

IMO, I think males kissing on the lips can be cultural and/or familial.

There are also many old photos in MSM of an adult Rob, kissing his father, Carl, on the lips. Also, I recall NFL GOAT Tom Brady is known to kiss his father on the lips, and once dared to kiss his son (11), on the lips (Tom vs Time docuseries), -- until MSM tortured father and son over this! And also kissed his team's owner, Robert Kraft!

Rob & Carl kiss

Did Tom Brady and Patriots Owner Robert Kraft Kiss at the Super Bowl? Fans Think So

After the Patriots' big win, fans began sharing images and clips that appeared to show Tom Brady and Robert Kraft sharing a celebratory smooch

people.com

nothing wrong with it - happens in many cultures

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Is there any reason to doubt Barry Markowitz and his experience with Nick in Nov 2025?

He could be working with the attorney the family hired?