CA - Murder victims Identified as Rob Reiner and wife Michele - LA Dec 14 2025

[LinasK]

Just as a matter of interest, if a client had the means to pay for a private lawyer would they be entitled to a public defender?

No, if you have the means to have a private attorney, you generally aren't entitled to a public defender. That's my understanding.

 

[Luna20]

Also, I'm quite sure I heard Harvey Levin - who broke the schizophrenia story - casually referring to a diagnosis of schizo-affective disorder instead. Surely, this change isn't just anecdotal and maybe it has something to do with the taking down of the video.

Diagnosing NR over the years has probably been difficult and "very complex". Perhaps multiple doctors had differing opinions. And NR has his own.

Speaking of which... How would a man last seen asking famous people what their name was and if they were famous react to a famous and "very high profile lawyer" dropping everything to defend him, the son of the very famous parents he's accused of stabbing to death, I wonder after reading about the smirking in the courtroom.

Sounds to me like AJ wanted to protect a client from complete self destruction, while the client wants to own/explain or totally deny what he did. JMHO.

Being as no family showed up for NR, it could be that AJ thought they were in agreement (NGRI) and for whatever reason the family recently decided against that.

 

[LinasK]

Good question.
Idk.
If paid pro bono (aka funded by the California taxpayers, correct ?) , would A. Jackson be able to set his own fee ?
Could he ask for more than what he would've been paid from the Reiner's estate.
Maybe that's Jacksons' plan ?

Although N.R. could throw a wrench into that plan by deciding to represent himself.
That last bit is just kidding, although some criminals have done exactly that.
It'd be something if N.R. represented himself, lost, and ended up on death row or prison for life.
I think he needs locking away for good and in prison.
He can still get treatment behind bars.
At the very least confined someplace for the remainder of his days, I don't think he can be trusted to be free in society ever again.

Also think that N.R. might be cunning even though ill.
My fears about a mental health facility (or medium-to-low security facility) are that he could be released after they deem him treated and cured.
What if he can pull it all together enough and be released, but then go on to harm others ?
Omo.

No, Pro Bono means doing it for free- for the publicity. Tax-payer funded is a public defender, which Jackson COULD potentially do if he had wanted to and there was no money coming from the family. Hope that's clear.

 

[freudianslip]

Being as no family showed up for NR, it could be that AJ thought they were in agreement (NGRI) and for whatever reason the family recently decided against that.

Wouldn't he need to be declared incomptetent to speak for himself for the family to have a say in his plea ?

 

[LinasK]

I think we have to let it play out.

Maybe the family needs time to regroup and decide upon a new lawyer and the public defender is only a "place holder".

JMO

Not likely. You are usually only assigned a public defender when you are indigent.

 

[Sundog]

I think the Probate Court froze the assets and applied the slayer rule.

Is probate court public in California? The records?

 

[LinasK]

It is a bit confusing, as he did say, he is innocent, print that. I took it as innocent of intentional murder due to all his issues. Something triggered AJ very emotionally about having to step away. I believe he HAD to. IMO

Not to me. Mark Geragos proclaimed Scott Peterson to be "Stone Cold Innocent". Doesn't mean that he actually was. It's just talking head Defense Attorney speak. The old Innocent until Proven Guilty adage.

 

[Sundog]

Afterwards, Jackson told a scrum of reporters, “Circumstances beyond our control, but more importantly, circumstances beyond Nick’s control, have dictated that sadly it’s made it impossible for us to continue our representation of Nick.”

<Snipped for focus>

The more times I read this statement the more I think that the situation is about money. On one level, it could be interpreted that the circumstances beyond NR's control are his mental health issues. But I think NJ could handle that. But if his firm and team weren't going to be paid, I don't think they were able to drop all of their other cases and dedicate themselves solely to NR and do it for free and carry all the costs of expert witnesses and other aspects of the case which would no doubt be quite costly and over a long period of time. Also, judges are reluctant to approve an attorney's request to leave a case, so I am thinking it had to be something irresolvable. Just some thoughts at this time until we know more.

 

[LinasK]

Also, I'm quite sure I heard Harvey Levin - who broke the schizophrenia story - casually referring to a diagnosis of schizo-affective disorder instead. Surely, this change isn't just anecdotal and maybe it has something to do with the taking down of the video.

Diagnosing NR over the years has probably been difficult and "very complex". Perhaps multiple doctors had differing opinions. And NR has his own.

Speaking of which... How would a man last seen asking famous people what their name was and if they were famous react to a famous and "very high profile lawyer" dropping everything to defend him, the son of the very famous parents he's accused of stabbing to death, I wonder after reading about the smirking in the courtroom.

Sounds to me like AJ wanted to protect a client from complete self destruction, while the client wants to own/explain or totally deny what he did. JMHO.

Yeah, I could totally picture Nick getting on the stand and owning it. Claiming that they deserved it. Kirk Nurmi couldn't stand Jodi Arias and couldn't wait to be let off the hook defending her. And Nick could have fired him because he didn't want an Insanity label slapped on him.

 

[Luna20]

Wouldn't he need to be declared incomptetent to speak for himself for the family to have a say in his plea ?

I’m not sure but it could be why they pushed the hearing back.

 

[Arkay]

Right now, Jackson bowing out is a mystery, though we all have our theories.

I don’t know, but in my gut, while I believe Nick is mentally ill I do not believe that he didn’t know what he was doing.

IMO he was sick of his parents, whether they were hovering over him with concern, or whether they were sending him to mental health facilities, or to rehab, or trying to keep him at their guest house, or bringing him along to their friend’s house so they could keep an eye on him.

At this moment I believe that he knew precisely what he was doing when he slaughtered his parents. He aimed for both, he got both, he sauntered away from the scene, he didn’t exhibit any signs of regret or sorrow that we know of and there have been no reports that he “came to” and was in anguish at what he’d done.

Maybe he thought he’d get their money, maybe not. I feel that he was so resentful of them, “interfering” with his desire to get high, and he just wanted to shut them up.

Now that Rob and Michele are dust, bone and ashes he’s gotten what he wanted as far as no more bear hugs, no more accusations, no more interference, no more hand-wringing over him. He knew all those people at the party, I’m sure, he grew up around all of them and he seemed to take pleasure in humiliating his parents in front of them.

I know he’s not rational to think he could mosey on over to a hotel and live his life unfettered after killing them. But I really do think this was all intentional on his part. Multiple stab wounds on two separate people is not accidental, and slitting throats makes me think he knew what weapon to use and where to cut them to do the maximum damage.

The fact that he’s no longer on suicide watch must mean something. The court doesn’t feel he will harm himself, which to me suggests he isn’t in a state of agony. Smirking in court, well maybe that’s his resting face or maybe it does in fact show that this is all amusing to him.

Why AJ felt compelled to discard this case must be something serious. Or, conversely, the family couldn’t or wouldn’t come up with the money. I’d think he’d stay on pro bono just for the publicity, but he’s already well-established, so who knows?

All just my opinion.

 

[LinasK]

Wouldn't he need to be declared incomptetent to speak for himself for the family to have a say in his plea ?

How would that give the family a say in his plea? They aren't the defendant.(They could advise him by phone, but the decision is his). I'd think that his legal guardian would be the only other one who'd get that right if he were declared incompetent, which he hasn't been so far. It's possible that the reason for delaying the plea is to get the new public defender up to speed on the case.

 

[Sundog]

If the meeting with NR's defense team and the judge in the judge's chambers only lasted about 3 minutes, as reported, then I do think the issue was likely money and the inability of AJ to stay on the case without fees being paid. Judges are incredibly reluctant to approve an attorney leaving a case and I think if it was something other than inability to pay attorney fees, then the judge would have spent more time discussing the issues involved. Money is straight forward, so 3 minutes is all it would take. JMO at this point in time.

 

[TiKani]

From all the media and video today, it sounds like:

1. AJ didn't know he would be called off until today, and he was kind of mad or amp'd up about it

2. The family didn't know about the change of representation until today

3. The public defender had no idea they would be called in today

The only way by which all those parties could be thrown off from expected occurance is...NR himself deciding something today that caused AJ to no longer being able to be his lawyer and a public defender being assigned instead.

It could, I guess, in theory, be a disagreement about how to plea. Or some other unknown thing. Or some way where NR, who long regretted feeling unable to live up to his family name (supposedly, as reported many many times) decided he wanted to run his own defense without family money involved.

Whatever it was - if the previously hired attorney, the family, and the public defended were all unprepared for this pivot - the only remaining actor to change things seems to be NR.

 

[HMSHood]

Nick Reiner reminds me of Nikolas Cruz. Both were described as troubled child as they were prone to severe tantrums. Both had history substance abuse. People thought something was off about them. They are also consumed by intense jealousy and envy. Nick Reiner and Nikolas Cruz are injustice collectors.

Nikolas Cruz | School Shooters .info

Information about the school shooter who perpetrated the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting. Age: 19. Psychological type: Unknown. Attack type: Random. Population: Secondary School.

schoolshooters.info

 

[LinasK]

From all the media and video today, it sounds like:

1. AJ didn't know he would be called off until today, and he was kind of mad or amp'd up about it

2. The family didn't know about the change of representation until today

3. The public defender had no idea they would be called in today

The only way by which all those parties could be thrown off from expected occurance is...NR himself deciding something today that caused AJ to no longer being able to be his lawyer and a public defender being assigned instead.

It could, I guess, in theory, be a disagreement about how to plea. Or some other unknown thing. Or some way where NR, who long regretted feeling unable to live up to his family name (supposedly, as reported many many times) decided he wanted to run his own defense without family money involved.

Whatever it was - if the previously hired attorney, the family, and the public defended were all unprepared for this pivot. The only remaining actor to change things seems to be NR.

Agreed. I think Nick is the sole one driving this bus.

 

[AuDHD]

If the meeting with NR's defense team and the judge in the judge's chambers only lasted about 3 minutes, as reported, then I do think the issue was likely money and the inability of AJ to stay on the case without fees being paid. Judges are incredibly reluctant to approve an attorney leaving a case and I think if it was something other than inability to pay attorney fees, then the judge would have spent more time discussing the issues involved. Money is straight forward, so 3 minutes is all it would take. JMO at this point in time.

that or NR deciding he couldn’t see eye to eye with AJ. I’d think that would go quickly if NR wanted to fire him for whatever reason.JMo

 

[Morag]

I wonder about the other daughter, who has seldom been mentioned. She was adopted, therefore unrelated to NR or his siblings (or his parents). It may be that her share of the inheritance was the same as the natural children. And it may be that she feels no duty to help.

 

[katydid23]

From all the media and video today, it sounds like:

1. AJ didn't know he would be called off until today, and he was kind of mad or amp'd up about it

2. The family didn't know about the change of representation until today

3. The public defender had no idea they would be called in today

The only way by which all those parties could be thrown off from expected occurance is...NR himself deciding something today that caused AJ to no longer being able to be his lawyer and a public defender being assigned instead.

It could, I guess, in theory, be a disagreement about how to plea. Or some other unknown thing. Or some way where NR, who long regretted feeling unable to live up to his family name (supposedly, as reported many many times) decided he wanted to run his own defense without family money involved.

Whatever it was - if the previously hired attorney, the family, and the public defended were all unprepared for this pivot - the only remaining actor to change things seems to be NR.

I agree with most everything above---except AJ said :
“Circumstances beyond our control and more importantly circumstances beyond Nick's control have dictated that, sadly, it's made it impossible to continue our representation,” lawyer Alan Jackson said


How would the circumstances be beyond Nick's control if it was about something he himself declared, or refused to sign, ietc?

Wouldn't those circumstances be within his control?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Being as no family showed up for NR, it could be that AJ thought they were in agreement (NGRI) and for whatever reason the family recently decided against that.

My take away from Peter @ LYK is the money issue.
He went over numerous possibilities of why AJ is no longer representing NR yet none really stuck and he would come back to the money and this.
If NR had access to his own money or family money he wouldn't have been appointed a public defender.