CA - Murder victims Identified as Rob Reiner and wife Michele - LA Dec 14 2025

[LadyL]

Can't kill people while your at least being evaluated - it could take all night - but it is just a moot point now. No one took him in for an evaluation and in light of what he did I wish someone had but Rob and Michele seem to have felt safe enough to take him to their house/guest house and go to their bedroom that night. Unfortunately, heated arguments were common and this one just happened to have happened in front of party guests.

2 Cents

why do you think 'no one took him for an evaluation'?

 

[katydid23]

My take away from Peter @ LYK is the money issue.
He went over numerous possibilities of why AJ is no longer representing NR yet none really stuck and he would come back to the money and this.
If NR had access to his own money or family money he wouldn't have been appointed a public defender.

Yes to the bolded portion above. Good point.

Although I said something similar earlier upthread, and some believe that maybe the public defender is just a place holder, for now. And once they ask around for another defense team, they can pivot ? So it might not be only about the money?

 

[Seattle1]

For anybody following the murder of Judge Kevin Mullens by former Sheriff Mickey Stines in Kentucky, you might recall that KY Statute provides that a person shall not be guilty of murder under the statute if he acted under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance for which there was a reasonable explanation or excuse, the reasonableness of which is to be determined from the viewpoint of a person in the defendant's situation under the circumstances as the defendant believed them to be. However, nothing contained in this section shall constitute a defense to a prosecution for or preclude a conviction of manslaughter in the first degree or any other crime;... [507.020 Murder]. Stines may very well convince a jury that he acted under extreme emotional disturbance, and be convicted of manslaughter!
In stepping down from NR's case today, Alan Jackson was very passionate in his concluding remarks:
“What we’ve learned, and you can take this to the bank, is that, pursuant to the law in California, Nick Reiner is not guilty of murder.”

However, unlike KY, California abolished the defense of diminished capacity around 1982. This was instead replaced with a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, where a NGRI defense shall be found by the trier of fact only when the accused person proves by a preponderance of the evidence that he or she was incapable of knowing or understanding the nature and quality of his or her act and of distinguishing right from wrong at the time of the commission of the offense. [CA Plea of Insanity]
While I appreciate Jackson's commitment to his client defendants, proving NGRI in CA is not without its limitations. For example, one of the limitations to an insanity defense is that the criminal conduct must have resulted from a mental disease or defect.

In essence, the defendant cannot claim that they committed a crime as a result of insanity if they understood the nature and consequences of their criminal conduct and that they also knew their criminal conduct was morally wrong, even if they actually suffer, coincidentally, from a mental illness.

Consider this situation: If the defendant, as a result of schizophrenia (mental illness), hears imagined voices that instruct them to commit an illegal act, and defendant knows the nature and consequences of the act defendant was instructed to commit, and defendant understands that the act is morally wrong, then there is no reason to consider defendants schizophrenia as a defense because it does not matter if the voices were imaged or real.

In other words, a person is not entitled to engage in criminal conduct with complete immunity just because a defendant coincidentally suffers from a mental disease or defect. Sadly, I get impression that NR used his struggle with addiction and mental illness as his crutch-- for most of his life.

IMO, NR's defense for NGRI is going to be a very tough sell to a jury because he continues to come off so unlikable -- reeking of entitlement and self-importance. You can't impose this beast against the beloved victims here, and expect a sympathetic outcome. JMO

How to plead "not guilty by reason of insanity" in California

https://youtu.be/2EHI69bMq4A Under California's insanity defense, you cannot be convicted of a crime if you were legally insane when you committed it.1 You are considered legally insane if you either: Did not understand the nature of your criminal act, OR Did not understand that what you were...

www.shouselaw.com

Defenses to Crimes | Insanity Defense in California: Criminal Defense Attorneys in CA Law

California insanity defense as a defense to criminal conduct. Explanation of the use of the insanity plea and defense. All misdemeanor and felony crimes and punishments explained. Criminal defense lawyers serving Fontana, Redlands, San Bernardino, Rancho Cucamonga, Victorville, Ontario, Highland

www.calcriminaldefenselawyers.com

 

[Seattle1]

My take away from Peter @ LYK is the money issue.
He went over numerous possibilities of why AJ is no longer representing NR yet none really stuck and he would come back to the money and this.
If NR had access to his own money or family money he wouldn't have been appointed a public defender.

In my experience, nearly every state has an exception to the financial test for the appointment of a public defender, and this typically revolves around defendants charged with a capital offense and/or not eligible for bail release. (NR meets this test).

In these cases, regardless of their financial means, pursuant to Statute, the Court will immediately appoint them counsel based on the fact that they are being held in custody, without the freedom to interview or privately consult/negotiate to engage private counsel.

Penal Code section 686.1​

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the defendant in a capital case shall be represented in court by counsel at all stages of the preliminary and trial proceedings.

California Code, Government Code - GOV § 27706 | FindLaw

California Government Code GOV CA GOVT Section 27706. Read the code on FindLaw

codes.findlaw.com

 

[Tortoise]

BBM:

"How would the circumstances be beyond Nick's control if it was about something he himself declared, or refused to sign, ietc?

Wouldn't those circumstances be within his control?"


I've given thought to how AJ phrased this so maybe AJ does actually believe that NR is insane then his insanity would be making his decisions based on being insane and not with a rational mind that would intelligently function under his control?

I'm going with the lack of money and the timing could be AJ just found out whatever financial channels that were expected to pay him/firm are a no-go?

There may have been intense legal work going on these past weeks to see if NR could somehow dip into his parents millions.
I don't see his siblings wanting to be in anyway involved with him and his defense.

I think if AJ believes NR is insane, and the family was still backing him financially, he would ask the court to have him evaluated for incompetence.

It's possible that AJ knows he would be found competent, which could scupper his intended defense, if NR is refusing meds to treat his alleged mental illness.

 

[Betty P]

If the meeting with NR's defense team and the judge in the judge's chambers only lasted about 3 minutes, as reported, then I do think the issue was likely money and the inability of AJ to stay on the case without fees being paid. Judges are incredibly reluctant to approve an attorney leaving a case and I think if it was something other than inability to pay attorney fees, then the judge would have spent more time discussing the issues involved. Money is straight forward, so 3 minutes is all it would take. JMO at this point in time.

It sounds like something came up that suddenly stopped the access to money, so the attorney had to drop out. As others are pointing out, it may be related to the probate process or a decision by the siblings or executor of the estate

It’s very interesting that he’s no longer considered a suicide risk. If mentally ill, that’s a relatively quick recovery. JMO, it may be a bit of a red flag.

 

[Dotta]

"Rob Reiner’s family urge judge not to give Nick Reiner the death penalty.​

The family of murdered Hollywood icon Nick Reiner
have made a surprising plea ahead of Nick Reiner’s trial in the wake of their parents’ murder.

Nick Reiner’s siblings want their 'seriously ill' brother
to avoid the death penalty.

After a change in meds,
the source claimed,
the 32-year-old grew even more unpredictable and unstable than before,
while also exhibiting signs of confusion.

'The family feels this was all a massive failure in his care
and they firmly believe he was seriously ill when he did this'.”

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/rob-reiners-family-urge-judge-not-to-give-nick-reiner-the-death-penalty/news-story/ed6207d9821c082a5e5ee4331c586a08

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2009215690256076910

 

[fcavanaugh]

DBM

 

[Seattle1]

1/8/26

TMZ probes shock exit of Nick Reiner celebrity attorney Alan Jackson | Banfield​

 

[Hexe]

'The family feels this was all a massive failure in his care
and they firmly believe he was seriously ill when he did this'.”

Shielding Nick from the consequences of his behaviour keeps going on, I see.

IMO, obviously.

 

[Dotta]

Shielding Nick from the consequences of his behaviour keeps going on, I see.

IMO, obviously.

There is no doubt that schizophrenia is a serious mental illness.

IMO

 

[Hexe]

There is no doubt that schizophrenia is a serious mental illness.

IMO

Do we know for sure what Nick was diagnosed with?

 

[BUF]

1/8/26

TMZ probes shock exit of Nick Reiner celebrity attorney Alan Jackson | Banfield​

Thanks for posting this @Seattle1 . Harvey always has some info….but will also put his spin on things.

So their documentary will air this Friday…that will keep the news cycle going for a while…..and Nick still hasn’t even entered a plea yet as his arraignment keeps getting postponed.

 

[MistyWaters]

There is no doubt that schizophrenia is a serious mental illness.

IMO

It is but being diagnosed with schizophrenia doesn’t lead to an automatic insanity verdict. The defence would need to prove NR didn’t know that murdering his parents was wrong. Any actions such as cleaning up, fleeing the scene in an attempt to cover up his crime proves otherwise. Whatever he told LAPD officers when he was initially arrested may be a huge factor.

A diagnosis of schizophrenia only becomes significant if the defence intends to use it as the reason NR was delusional and psychotic at the time he murdered his parents (ie hearing voices instructing him or believing demons had taken over his parents bodies, etc).

California's Insanity Defense - The McNaghten Rule

Under California's insanity defense, you can't be convicted of a crime if you were legally insane when you committed it. Notably, you are considered legally insane if you did not understand the nature of your criminal act, or you did not understand that what you were doing was morally wrong...

www.egattorneys.com

“Under California's insanity defense, you can't be convicted of a crime if you were legally insane when you committed it. Notably, you are considered legally insane if you did not understand the nature of your criminal act, or you did not understand that what you were doing was morally wrong.”

 

[Fantastic]

In relation to the reported change in medication, I wonder if the well known homicidal side effects, of some psych meds, will form part of the defence:

Antidepressants increase the risk of suicide, violence and homicide at all ages

www.bmj.com

https://academic.oup.com/acn/article-abstract/39/7/1088/7755953

 

[Betty P]

Shielding Nick from the consequences of his behaviour keeps going on, I see.

IMO, obviously.

I read an article with a statement from the family that sounded different from this. This is from an anonymous source, so I'm going to do some more searching around. I hope the family gets some good PR help to control their message to the public.

ETA: Their quote that I read is from this People magazine article. It's very brief, but I'm taking this as their actual statement.

After attorney Alan Jackson withdrew from representing Nick, 32, just before he was set to be arraigned on murder charges on Wednesday, Jan. 7, in connection with the stabbing deaths of his parents Rob, 78, and Michele, 70, a spokesperson for the Reiner family issued a statement that reads, "They have the utmost trust in the legal process and will not comment further on matters related to the legal proceedings."

Rob Reiner's Family Says They Have 'Utmost Trust in the Legal Process' After Nick's Attorney Withdraws from Murder Case

Rob Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner's family has issued a new statement regarding the latest criminal proceedings in Nick Reiner's murder case. "They have the utmost trust in the legal process and will not comment further on matters related to the legal proceedings," a spokesperson for the...

people.com

There's nothing in that statement about wanting their brother to avoid prison or harsh sentences or that he wasn't mentally ill. They're simply stating that they have trust in the legal process. I assume that means regardless of whether he's defended by a high priced attorney or a public defender. They have the utmost trust in the legal process.

 

[BUF]

Nick Reiner's star lawyer stepped down. This could be why.

Why did Nick Reiner's star lawyer, Alan Jackson, withdraw from the high-profile murder case? And what comes next?

www.usatoday.com

 

[BUF]

 

[tlcya]

Do we know for sure what Nick was diagnosed with?

some articles say schizophrenia. TMZ most recently said schizoaffective disorder (which is a form of mental illness that exhibits features similar to schizophrenia). It can accompany Bipolar 1 as a dual diagnosis which is my son's diagnosis.