So to my thinking this makes it seem unlikely that the siblings would have cut off his defense money.
CA - Murder victims Identified as Rob Reiner and wife Michele - LA Dec 14 2025
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<modsnip: Removed 'medical' opinion stated as fact with no link to support and not a VI> I doubt Nick can stay clean, but I mean really clean, weed and booze out of question, for very long, without being locked away. There was no mention about him being in psychiatric ward for extended period of time. For any period of time, actually. So I have my doubts about these supposed diagnoses and about the meds he got allegedly prescribed (both if he really was on new meds and about his ability to properly use them and to not mix them with street drugs.
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I don't have a solid theory at this point. My prior post was my head listing out known facts upon reviewing the news of yesterday: AJ didn't know he would leave the case, the family didn't know AJ would leave the case, the public defender's office didn't know AJ would leave the case.
Looking at that it seems most probable to me that something occurred, pre-court appearance, between NR and AJ in the pre-prep/convo. Perhaps they had a strategy, and AJ had spent all that time etc prepping on a strategy, and that morning NR was like "nah." Or some other variation of no longer wanting to go with whatever was planned. At that point AJ can't just pivot legal strategy in minutes. But also can't enact the planned strategy if NR is suddenly opposed to it. And so he cannot serve as counsel, in a sudden and unexpected move. (In that case "circumstances beyond Nick's control" would be a reference to mental health/insanity - where AJ thinks whatever NR did or decided that morning reflect a person not able to make rational reality-based decisions.)
That might not be right. But it seems more likely to me than some family related money decision being made the exact morning court is to move forward. If AJ had a pay plan that worked for him to spend all that prep time and show up, whatever money was set and moving forward. And it is hard to imagine the money source calling the morning of court to say "we're not paying anymore." Possible. But that seems less likely than something going down between AJ and NR while preparing to walk into court. (As we have zero examples of NR being able to be a consistent person with healthy on-going relationships, let alone with a smart man in power who has to be deferred to if NR wants the best legal representation.)
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<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>
recent articles state NR was diagnosed years ago, not recently as was initially reported. A mental health diagnosis does not necessarily equate to locked up a in a psyche ward for extended periods.
LOS ANGELES — Nick Reiner was diagnosed with schizophrenia several years ago and his medication was changed or adjusted at some point before the killings of his parents, according to three sources with direct knowledge of the case.
Nick Reiner, His Parents’ Murders and Schizophrenia: What to Know About the Complex Mental Illness (Exclusive)
As I and others have stated, a psychiatric hold can be very difficult to obtain and it often takes years to get the individual into the hospital to even get a diagnosis. Meanwhile, the mentally unstable individual is out in the world, disrupting the lives of those closest to them and self medicating by abusing street drugs. This is not at all uncommon. And yes, NR may well have also been using street drugs with his prescribed new medications. In fact he probably was. That is the nature of the beast. The ill person doesn't want to acknowledge they are ill and they often do not like the way the medication makes them feel (as if they are zombies or less than their former selves). So they then add illegal drugs into the mix to try to feel "more like themselves"
This issue is not unique to Nick Reiner.
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This is an unimaginable tragedy for his family and they have specifically asked for compassion and humanity now, now judgement or rumors.
There are very complex mental health and addiction problems involved here, which the family has openly discussed for years. It is not a simple situation.
We should remember that mental illness and addiction are serious matters, and the situation is tragic for everyone involved.
all imo
Interesting read.
Imo, the Reiners were down to earth people and very supportive people.
nypost.com
Imo, the Reiners were down to earth people and very supportive people.
Death row inmate reveals heartbreaking email he received from Michele Reiner the night before she and husband Rob were killed
A death row inmate received a heartbreaking email from Michele Reiner just hours before she and her Hollywood legend husband Rob were allegedly murdered by their own son.
nypost.com
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That’s an interesting thought. A defense strategy that would result in dragging the family’s personal business into the spotlight might be incentive for the family to pull funding for the attorney.
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Nick Reiner's star lawyer stepped down. This could be why.
Why did Nick Reiner's star lawyer, Alan Jackson, withdraw from the high-profile murder case? And what comes next?www.usatoday.com
Even if the two biological children supported NR benefitting from the estate to some how finance his legal fees circumventing the slayer statute, the RR’s adopted daughter may’ve stood strongly opposed.
JMO
From your link.
"It sounds more financial to me. Just my spider sense," he said.
California has a so-called "slayer statute" that prevents anyone who "feloniously and intentionally kills" another person from inheriting that person's assets.
Scott Tenley, a former prosecutor in Los Angeles County, said in an email that probate courts, which deal with assets after someone dies, could determine Reiner probably killed his parents and block him under the slayer statute from inheriting, without waiting for a possible conviction.
"The availability of this procedure would make it incredibly difficult for Nick Reiner to force his parents’ estate to disburse any inheritance to him pending his trial," Tenley said.“
I think the family knew they needed a good lawyer within 48 hours of NR's arrest for the first court appearance, and later found out that they were not able to use the inheritance money for his legal fees, the money just wasn't there and so AJ had to remove himself from the case going forward. I think the family made the decision to hire AJ in haste immediately after NR's arrest, before knowing that the money wouldn't be available to help NR's attorney fees. I think AJ likely knew that at least a day or so before the scheduled court hearing yesterday, and that the anger he showed was both disappointment and anger that he couldn't continue to defend NR and had to let go of the case.
ETA - I think the family were doing everything they could to come up with the retainer to continue to keep AJ on the case, but alas, with the newly scheduled court appearance after NR was taken off of suicide watch, they knew they had to let AJ go.
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Something like that might be considered to mitigate his criminal sentence after being found guilty but I don’t think murdering his parents in bed would be considered an act of self-defence that he was required to protect himself from at the age of 32.
JMO
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After several weeks of investigation and research of the evidence, I believe AJ was prepared to enter what he believed was the best plea for his client at Tuesday's scheduled arraignment, but was stopped in his tracks.
IMO, a prudent defense team here will not want a bifurcated trial (dual plea) where the question of NR's guilt, and the question of his sanity are dealt with in two separate proceedings.
I think AJ wanted to enter a single plea of "not guilty by reason of insanity," where the court proceeds directly to the sanity trial, and there is no separate trial on guilt or innocence. In other words, the defense concedes/stipulates that NR was responsible for the death of the victims but was insane when the offenses were committed. Ultimately, I think NR rejected the NGRI defense proposed by AJ -- perhaps because he's in complete denial that he murdered his parents.
Just the same -- what best could stop the flow of financial assistance to NR from family and friends than for NR to refuse the advice of counsel, and/or to accept responsibility for his horrific act against his parents. JMO
References:
The plea of insanity is thus necessarily one of "confession and avoidance." (People v. Troche (1928) 206 Cal. 35, 44 [273 P. 767].) "Commission of the overt act is conceded" but punishment is avoided "upon the sole ground that at the time the overt act was committed the defendant was [insane]." (People v. Wells (1949) 33 Cal.2d 330, 349-350 [202 P.2d 53], italics in original.)
The "sanity trial is but a part of the same criminal proceeding as the guilt phase" (People v. Flores (1976) 55 Cal.App.3d 118, 122 [127 Cal.Rptr. 230]) but differs procedurally from the guilt phase of trial "in that the issue is confined to sanity and the burden is upon the defendant to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that he was insane at the time of the offense" (id. at p. 121). As in the determination of guilt, the verdict of the jury must be unanimous. (People v. Troche, supra, 206 Cal. at p. 44.)
How to plead "not guilty by reason of insanity" in California
https://youtu.be/2EHI69bMq4A Under California's insanity defense, you cannot be convicted of a crime if you were legally insane when you committed it.1 You are considered legally insane if you either: Did not understand the nature of your criminal act, OR Did not understand that what you were...
www.shouselaw.com
<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>
Apparently not aware that NR had 18 rehab stays with some facilities specializing in mental health and a sober coach?
There was ample opportunity and endless top tier medical services to work on NR's diagnoses.
Can people with co-occurring disorders be treated effectively?
Yes, chronic drug abusers who also suffer from mental illness can be treated. Researchers currently are investigating the most effective way to treat drug abusers with mental illness, and especially whether or not treating both conditions simultaneously leads to better recovery. Currently, the two conditions often are treated separately or without regard to each other. As a result, many individuals with co-occurring disorders are sent back and forth between substance abuse and mental health treatment settings.
https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs7/7343/index.htm#:~:text=Many chronic drug abusers--,disorder or a dual diagnosis.
1 in 15 U.S adults experienced both a substance use disorder and mental illness
Mental Health By the Numbers
Addiction is a disease, not a character flaw.
Treatment of Substance Use Disorders
all imo
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He was, allegedly, diagnosed very recently. That means: long after the multiple rehab stays. Also, sober coaches are usually not mental health specialists and they do not have the credentials to diagnose mental health issues.
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the sources said Nick Reiner was diagnosed years ago with schizophrenia and was being treated with medication. They said Nick Reiner's medication was changed or adjusted before the killings, but did not provide a more specific time frame.
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/nick-reiner-arraignment-murder/3827859/#:~:text=The%20sources%20said%20Nick%20Reiner,of%20the%20couple's%20three%20children.
ETA
“Nick had been on anti-psychotic meds for several years,” website founder Harvey Levin told “Banfield” on Wednesday. “What we have been told is those meds were working. They were working fine. For some reason, his doctors changed the meds, and it sent him into orbit.”
Nick Reiner ‘off the rails’ at time of killings due to new meds: TMZ
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/nick-reiner-arraignment-murder/3827859/#:~:text=The%20sources%20said%20Nick%20Reiner,of%20the%20couple's%20three%20children.
ETA
“Nick had been on anti-psychotic meds for several years,” website founder Harvey Levin told “Banfield” on Wednesday. “What we have been told is those meds were working. They were working fine. For some reason, his doctors changed the meds, and it sent him into orbit.”
Nick Reiner ‘off the rails’ at time of killings due to new meds: TMZ
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Dr. Jeffrey Lieberman Calls Nick Reiner's Rehab Facilities Scams
Dr. Jeffrey Lieberman -- formerly the president of the American Psychiatric Association -- stopped by "TMZ Live," sharing some disturbing insight into the multiple rehab facilities ... which ultimately failed Rob and Michele Reiner's son Nick.
www.tmz.com
12/22/25
Some have pointed out Nick had been displaying warning signs when his medications were altered in a way that left him unstable. While Lieberman says it should fall on doctors to spot dangerous behavior and prescribe inpatient care when necessary, he admitted the law ties their hands.
"The rules for civil commitment, or treatment of a patient over objection, or hospitalizing them over objection are so stringent that a person has to literally commit a crime before they can be forcibly admitted to the hospital or required to take medication," he said.
This even applies in Nick's case, where he was allegedly using cocaine, which Lieberman said is like "throwing gas on a fire" for schizophrenics.
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AJ:
However, if on that morning, NR refused to sign the document concerning his plea of NGRI , refused to agree to the Insanity defense, then AJ would have no shot at getting any of the family trust money either.
So that could have made him angry then and there. IMO
OK, I may have found something to explain the issue:
- Insanity/Mental Illness: If a court finds the killer was legally insane and thus could not form "felonious intent," the slayer rule may be challenged.
However, if on that morning, NR refused to sign the document concerning his plea of NGRI , refused to agree to the Insanity defense, then AJ would have no shot at getting any of the family trust money either.
So that could have made him angry then and there. IMO
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as to changing NR's meds when some are reporting he was doing well on the previous meds, these anti psychotic medications come with very real health risks, particularly over the long term.
The adverse effects of antipsychotic medications range from relatively minor tolerability issues (e.g., mild sedation or dry mouth) to very unpleasant (e.g., constipation, akathisia, sexual dysfunction) to painful (e.g., acute dystonias) to disfiguring (e.g., weight gain, tardive dyskinesia) to life threatening (e.g., myocarditis, agranulocytosis). Some adverse effects have little short‐term clinical implications (e.g., increased prolactin or serum lipid levels), but may involve long‐term risk of medical complications.
Management of common adverse effects of antipsychotic medications - PMC
some of them can cause liver failure, which is why a person prescribed anti psychotics must have their blood tested periodically to ensure their enzyme levels are within acceptable range. They can cause heart conditions that lead to heart failure. These medications are very serious and require monitoring. They should never be taken in conjunction with street drugs. But try telling that to a mentally ill addict.
The adverse effects of antipsychotic medications range from relatively minor tolerability issues (e.g., mild sedation or dry mouth) to very unpleasant (e.g., constipation, akathisia, sexual dysfunction) to painful (e.g., acute dystonias) to disfiguring (e.g., weight gain, tardive dyskinesia) to life threatening (e.g., myocarditis, agranulocytosis). Some adverse effects have little short‐term clinical implications (e.g., increased prolactin or serum lipid levels), but may involve long‐term risk of medical complications.
Management of common adverse effects of antipsychotic medications - PMC
some of them can cause liver failure, which is why a person prescribed anti psychotics must have their blood tested periodically to ensure their enzyme levels are within acceptable range. They can cause heart conditions that lead to heart failure. These medications are very serious and require monitoring. They should never be taken in conjunction with street drugs. But try telling that to a mentally ill addict.
So?
Not unusual at all for diagnosis to take years especially with emerging or progressive disorders.
A large amount of medical treatment going back many years accumulated information to make such a determination for NR, imo.
FYI:
Sober coaches come in all types and credentials.
all imo
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Is it schizophrenia, or is it schizophrenic ideation cause by years of drug abuse?
Did he trigger his delusional episodes himself by abusing drugs for so long?
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