CA - Murder victims Identified as Rob Reiner and wife Michele - LA Dec 14 2025

[MistyWaters]

All of the after the crime behavior mitigates an Insanity plea. It's not like he was out in the streets undressing acting like a chicken or something.

Yeah that or even wearing socks stuffed with garlic to ward off the devil. But now, almost two months later after his cooperative arrest he apparently thinks he’s a victim of a conspiracy? How he acts now doesn’t prove what was his state of mind at the time of the murders.
JMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

DBM

I didn't know about the procedure 1368 in California in connection to a plea. Learned something new today, thanks.

<RSBM from your link above>

"There's also a procedure in the state of California known as declaring a doubt, where a defense lawyer has the unilateral ability to come into court and say, ‘Your honor, I am declaring a doubt regarding the competency of my client to assist me further in these proceedings.’ And that's something you will often see in NGRI or not guilty by reason of insanity cases."

Murphy added, "It's called going 1368, and when they do that, the court is required by law to appoint two mental health experts – one at the request of the prosecution, one to request the defense – to evaluate the defendant, determine whether or not the defendant is competent to stand trial, which is different than was he legally saying at the time he committed the charged act.

MOO

You are welcome. It was a surprise to me too. It definitely has me wondering if the defense will use it.

 

[MistyWaters]

You are welcome. It was a surprise to me too. It definitely has me wondering if the defense will use it.

Mental competency is standard to ensure a fair trial. Incompetency doesn't prove NGRI, although it possibly delays the legal process for months, even years.

Penal Code 1368 PC | Competency to Stand Trial in California

California criminal defense lawyers explain Penal Code 1368 PC, which is the statute that defines a defendant's mental competency to stand trial.

www.cronisraelsandstark.com

 

[katydid23]

The Grandiose symptom is often mistaken for your description of a ne’er do well.

Grandiosity refers to a sense of specialness and self-importance that might lead you to:

• boast about real or exaggerated accomplishments
• consider yourself more talented or intelligent than others
• dismiss or try to one-up the achievements of others
• believe you don’t need anyone else to succeed
• believe you’re above rules or ordinary limits
• fail to recognize that your actions could harm others
• lash out in anger when someone criticizes you or points out a flaw in your plans

Grandiosity often resembles self-centered or arrogant behavior, so people often don’t recognize it as a mental health symptom.
….
Grandiosity isn’t considered a mental health condition on its own, but it might show up as a symptom of one.

Grandiosity: Everything You Need to Know | Psych Central



Grandiose delusions are arguably the most neglected psychotic experience in research.
…
Despite being a common type of delusion (Appelbaum, Robbins, & Roth, 1999; Goodwin & Jamison, 2007) – occurring in about half of patients diagnosed with schizophrenia and two thirds of patients with bipolar disorder(Knowles, McCarthy‐Jones, & Rowse, 2011) – they have been remarkably neglected as a specific focus of research and clinical practice.
…
This apparent disparity may have arisen for several reasons. There may be a perception that grandiose delusions represent a more benign presentation in non‐affective psychosis and that they will not be distressing or harmful given the focus of the belief. Alternatively, they may be viewed simply as a symptom of mania in affective psychosis, and therefore, it is presumed that research and clinical focus should be on the manic episode rather than the belief per se. These assumptions, however, may be erroneous.

Understanding, treating, and renaming grandiose delusions: A qualitative study - PMC

....Snipped for space.....

Key Aspects of Bipolar Defense in California:

• Insanity Defense (NGI): If psychosis (including extreme grandiosity) prevented the defendant from understanding that killing was wrong, they may be found Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity (NGI). This often leads to commitment to a state hospital, not immediate release.

Grandiosity in bipolar disorder is not a direct "defense" to murder in California, but it can be used to support a legal defense of insanity or for mental health diversion. If the manic-induced grandiosity caused the defendant to not understand the nature of their act or know right from wrong, it may satisfy the M'Naghten insanity standard.

The Two Prongs of the Rule
To be found "not guilty by reason of insanity" under M'Naghten, the defense must prove that, at the time of the crime, the defendant was suffering from a defect of reason or disease of the mind. This condition must have caused the defendant to:

1. Not know the nature and quality of the act: They did not physically understand what they were doing (e.g., believing they were squeezing a lemon when they were actually strangling a person).
2. Not know the act was wrong: They understood what they were doing but could not distinguish that it was morally or legally wrong (e.g., believing they were acting on a direct command from God).

OK, SO HOW DOES NICK'S BEHAVIOUR THAT NIGHT FIT INTO THE ABOVE DESCRIPTION?

1. Did he not know the nature and quality of the act of stabbing his parents that night? Did he not physically understand what he was doing?

2. Did he not know the act was wrong? He understood what he was doing but could not distinguish it was morally or legally wrong to kill them?


I'm not seeing how he is going to fit into the above description in order to be considered Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity. It's not enough just to have been diagnosed with Bi-polar Disorder or Schizophrenia. It has to be proven that the illness was responsible for the criminal actions. Thus he thought God was commanding him to slit those 2 people's throats so it was not wrong for him to do so.

I have not heard any evidence of that kind of psychosis happening that night. It seems there is more evidence that points to him just being angry and resentful towards his parents and their celebrity friends that night, and they argued and he was very angry. Then he went home and stabbed them to death.

He cleaned himself off, took off his bloody clothing, and went and rented a nice hotel room at the beach. Those seem like rational and logical decisions, designed to avoid being arrested. imol

 

[katydid23]

You are welcome. It was a surprise to me too. It definitely has me wondering if the defense will use it.

The defense teams in California, representing defendants having mental health disorders always use this 1368 Procedure. That's why most of our murder trials don't usually start until a few years pass by. No one expects any thing different.

The good thing, the way I look at it, is the mental health experts here have a lot of hands on experience getting the defendants up to speed and able to pass the competency tests.

They will get Nick on the right meds and he will not be able to malinger or pretend he is a little confused boy. That's working for him now, or he thinks it is. But I don't think he will be able to prolong that behaviour, imo.

 

[Jade]

Key Aspects of Bipolar Defense in California:

• Insanity Defense (NGI): If psychosis (including extreme grandiosity) prevented the defendant from understanding that killing was wrong, they may be found Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity (NGI). This often leads to commitment to a state hospital, not immediate release.

Grandiosity in bipolar disorder is not a direct "defense" to murder in California, but it can be used to support a legal defense of insanity or for mental health diversion. If the manic-induced grandiosity caused the defendant to not understand the nature of their act or know right from wrong, it may satisfy the M'Naghten insanity standard.

The Two Prongs of the Rule
To be found "not guilty by reason of insanity" under M'Naghten, the defense must prove that, at the time of the crime, the defendant was suffering from a defect of reason or disease of the mind. This condition must have caused the defendant to:

1. Not know the nature and quality of the act: They did not physically understand what they were doing (e.g., believing they were squeezing a lemon when they were actually strangling a person).
2. Not know the act was wrong: They understood what they were doing but could not distinguish that it was morally or legally wrong (e.g., believing they were acting on a direct command from God).

OK, SO HOW DOES NICK'S BEHAVIOUR THAT NIGHT FIT INTO THE ABOVE DESCRIPTION?

1. Did he not know the nature and quality of the act of stabbing his parents that night? Did he not physically understand what he was doing?

2. Did he not know the act was wrong? He understood what he was doing but could not distinguish it was morally or legally wrong to kill them?


I'm not seeing how he is going to fit into the above description in order to be considered Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity. It's not enough just to have been diagnosed with Bi-polar Disorder or Schizophrenia. It has to be proven that the illness was responsible for the criminal actions. Thus he thought God was commanding him to slit those 2 people's throats so it was not wrong for him to do so.

I have not heard any evidence of that kind of psychosis happening that night. It seems there is more evidence that points to him just being angry and resentful towards his parents and their celebrity friends that night, and they argued and he was very angry. Then he went home and stabbed them to death.

He cleaned himself off, took off his bloody clothing, and went and rented a nice hotel room at the beach. Those seem like rational and logical decisions, designed to avoid being arrested. imol

Suffice to say we totally disagree!

I was posting on the aspects of mental illness with drug abuse and the enormity of the challenges to stabilization and recovery that torments families not so much the judicial.

Delusions don’t mean that a person can’t basically function somewhat normally but that their mind set, their perception, their motivation in their parallel world incorporates deluded reasoning, imo.

God delusions is only one example of delusions and really, imo, the most severe and obvious.

Others have just plain wrong thinking and can’t be reasoned out of their deluded thoughts and perceptions of persecution as explained in my provided links

I don’t think NR is pretending or soaking up money for the fun of it so I’ll just wait and see what happens in the future since we really have no definitive information to be judging.



All imo