Found Deceased CA - Raymond Tyler, 38, found deceased in Willits, 5 Aug 2023

[Gemmie]

thats not okay. He wouldnt have been out there to commit suicide… why did they rule it a suicide?

And why did he take his shoes off and leave them on the porch if he did die by suicide? That's not sounding very believable.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

no matter what happened, just offering love and hope to Ray's loved ones. He is not suffering and perhaps that brings some solace, please take care of yourselves...

 

[PrincessLaLa91]

And why did he take his shoes off and leave them on the porch if he did die by suicide? That's not sounding very believable.

He was dropped of there… per his request. Theres more hearsay within our community, but none of that can be used here. I do know that the person he trying to visit, was his neighbor years prior to this, so there is definitely history there.

 

[Gemmie]

He was dropped of there… per his request. Theres more hearsay within our community, but none of that can be used here. I do know that the person he trying to visit, was his neighbor years prior to this, so there is definitely history there.

Good... or bad history?

 

[PrincessLaLa91]

With whats been said around here, not the best history. I have been unable to confirm allegations, but im sure it is buried somewhere in a LE incident report.

 

[PrincessLaLa91]

Maybe Klingon knows more.

The coroner has deemed Ray a suicide. I doubt that very much. I dont know what else I can do to find the truth of what happened.

maybe there is somebody with the resources you would need to reach out to another agency floating around somewhere on this website

 

[PrincessLaLa91]

The coroner has deemed Ray a suicide. I doubt that very much. I dont know what else I can do to find the truth of what happened.

Also, who goes to somebody elses property to commit suicide?

 

[Gemmie]

With whats been said around here, not the best history. I have been unable to confirm allegations, but im sure it is buried somewhere in a LE incident report.

Then that makes me more likely to think it wasn't suicide on Raymond's part. I'm hoping LE did a thorough investigation, although it doesn't sound like it.

 

[Gemmie]

Also, who goes to somebody elses property to commit suicide?

The only person I can think of who would do something like that is like an ex, or a partner you've asked to divorce, and they wanted to lay a guilt trip on them by doing it at their house. But other than that, I can't think of any other reason, and that doesn't appear to apply here. Just answering your Q who would do something like that.

 

[Klingon]

First and foremost, I'm very sorry for your loss, and the way it's been handled thus far. While nothing can bring your brother back, I hope you get the answers you seek.

Question.... Has LE questioned her and others that live there? Any idea why he'd have been dropped off there? Did he know them? I wonder if he asked to be dropped off there or if that's where the driver decided to drop him off.

Lastly, Uh huh... without his shoes. </end sarcasm>

Law enforcement questioned her when they were called about his remains. He was ‘friends’ with them, and that is where he asked to be dropped off at.

 

[Klingon]

thats not okay. He wouldnt have been out there to commit suicide… why did they rule it a suicide?

The coroner said “because the scene seems I disturbed and the trajectory of the bullet , also the hun was on scene” “they will not be looking into where he got the gun” oh and he was cremated already.

 

[PrincessLaLa91]

The coroner said “because the scene seems I disturbed and the trajectory of the bullet , also the hun was on scene” “they will not be looking into where he got the gun” oh and he was cremated already.

They wont be looking into the gun?

 

[PrincessLaLa91]

Heres a case of not looking into the gun on a “suicide”. Lets always investigate the gun please?

 

[deadfoot13]

Also, who goes to somebody elses property to commit suicide?

It happens much more often than you would think. This particular study estimates that around 3/4 of all suicides are completed at home, which leaves 1/4 as completed somewhere other than home.

Means Matter | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Most efforts to prevent suicide focus on why people take their lives. But as we understand more about who attempts suicide

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Of the many people in my life who have been lost to suicide, it's almost the reverse with the majority being someplace other than their home (e.g. in the woods, in cemeteries, and parks), but that is just my experience. I've always assumed it was so loved ones wouldn't be the first to find them.

MOO.

 

[PrincessLaLa91]

Yes, but herein lies the problem. He went to a friends place and did it there, in their backyard.. left his shoes on the front porch and the friend claimed there wouldnt be any reason to think he would be there, in such close proximity to her home… it seems off to me. Imo

 

[Gemmie]

Yes, but herein lies the problem. He went to a friends place and did it there, in their backyard.. left his shoes on the front porch and the friend claimed there wouldnt be any reason to think he would be there, in such close proximity to her home… it seems off to me. Imo

Was he barefoot when they found him? Or was it a 2nd pair of his shoes on the porch?

 

[Gemmie]

I thought I'd share this link since I was wondering if family could reopen a suicide case if you suspect murder. I'm thinking @Klingon has autopsy & toxicology reports, as well as the police report. I also know she has info that's making it hard for her to fathom that her brother died by suicide. Perhaps that info would be enough to reopen Raymond's case.

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/is-it-possible-to-reopen-a-case-that-was-closed-fo-478242.html

 

[Gemmie]

WARNING!!! The link below has some VERY graphic gunshot images. It is not recommended to view if it will trigger someone. Due to that, I brought over a paragraph that I found interesting, so that's all you'd need to view. BBM

Deaths related to homicidal and suicidal gunshot wounds (GSWs) are common in the United States. In most instances, investigation allows for relatively straight-forward differentiation between homicides and suicides. Occasionally, however, such differentiation proves to be quite difficult, with some cases ultimately being certified with an “undetermined” manner of death (MOD). Certification of a death as a homicide should not be undertaken lightly, as it may have profound legal ramifications. In some situations, initial impressions regarding the MOD in various types of medicolegal death investigations differ from the final rulings after autopsy and complete investigation (1 -5). A number of investigative and autopsy findings help to differentiate a suicidal GSW case from a homicidal case. This report describes three deaths related to GSWs of the head where initial investigation suggested that the deaths represented suicides; however, based on scene and autopsy findings, along with subsequent investigative information, each case was properly ruled as a homicide. The cases are presented, focusing on important aspects of the investigations and autopsies which led to the proper MOD certification.

Homicides Disguised as Staged Suicides - PMC

Determining the correct cause and manner of death are among the chief responsibilities of the forensic pathologist. When confronted with a case having a questionable manner of death, it is important for scene evidence, witness statements, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The reason I found the bolded part interesting is it's hard to believe one of the case studies was viewed as a suicide initially when the guy's hands were clasped under the blankets. You do not shoot yourself dead, then clasp your hands under a blanket. I bring this up solely because if it seems so obvious that Case #1 was not a suicide... it makes me wonder what LE could have missed in Raymond's case.

 

[bombardier]

@Klingon I know it's probably too early to have results back but did they indicate that they took/were able to take samples for toxicology?

 

[PrincessLaLa91]

WARNING!!! The link below has some VERY graphic gunshot images. It is not recommended to view if it will trigger someone. Due to that, I brought over a paragraph that I found interesting, so that's all you'd need to view. BBM

Deaths related to homicidal and suicidal gunshot wounds (GSWs) are common in the United States. In most instances, investigation allows for relatively straight-forward differentiation between homicides and suicides. Occasionally, however, such differentiation proves to be quite difficult, with some cases ultimately being certified with an “undetermined” manner of death (MOD). Certification of a death as a homicide should not be undertaken lightly, as it may have profound legal ramifications. In some situations, initial impressions regarding the MOD in various types of medicolegal death investigations differ from the final rulings after autopsy and complete investigation (1 -5). A number of investigative and autopsy findings help to differentiate a suicidal GSW case from a homicidal case. This report describes three deaths related to GSWs of the head where initial investigation suggested that the deaths represented suicides; however, based on scene and autopsy findings, along with subsequent investigative information, each case was properly ruled as a homicide. The cases are presented, focusing on important aspects of the investigations and autopsies which led to the proper MOD certification.

Homicides Disguised as Staged Suicides - PMC

Determining the correct cause and manner of death are among the chief responsibilities of the forensic pathologist. When confronted with a case having a questionable manner of death, it is important for scene evidence, witness statements, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The reason I found the bolded part interesting is it's hard to believe one of the case studies was viewed as a suicide initially when the guy's hands were clasped under the blankets. You do not shoot yourself dead, then clasp your hands under a blanket. I bring this up solely because if it seems so obvious that Case #1 was not a suicide... it makes me wonder what LE could have missed in Raymond's case.

I read this whole article already, and shared it with Klingon outside of WS.