CA - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #9

[scorekeeper]

I have racked my brain til I am getting a headache...please don't throw things...

I am still leaning heavily toward murder but am trying to understand the suicide theory, which is what I feel that LE presented without giving us all the evidence and interviews.

Sorry this is long......here goes...

July 11 – MS found unconscious and not breathing in foyer
July 13 – RZ found hanging from balcony at approx. 6:45 am
12:50 – RN retrieves/listens to voicemail from supposedly JS telling her that MS has taken a turn for the worst and is not expected to live
I’m sure the message contained more than that information. Perhaps telling RN it would be best if she left the mansion; the relationship was over. Remember this whole time AS is at the hospital with DS and her sister. The conversations cannot be “pro RN”. There has to be so much anger toward RN.
Did RN build her whole life around JS and his kids the last 2-3 years? She quit her job and appeared to settle in as his “new wife”. How much did she value her new life? Was she so ashamed and could not go back home? Did her family tell her not to give up herself for him? I can imagine how she felt, how distraught she was; not being able to be at the hospital by JS or MS. Being alone in 27 rooms, walking around crying, questioning herself…..
I could see her taking her own life IF she was told, GET OUT…IT’S OVER
The pain and anger from a parent’s viewpoint would be unbearable. I could see DS totally losing it. Or someone that loves DS very much; wanting RN to pay for the pain and loss she has caused. Her only son/child gone. I don’t see JS doing this…he is used to giving orders…..is AS a follower?
No matter which way I try to see this – murder or suicide – I don’t have enough concrete evidence. RN’s family has to feel the same way. I don’t blame them for wanting answers.
She saved him
Can he save her
If this wasn’t written by RN; then this was written by someone taunting JS………someone that was going to have the last word and pay him back for what he did to them (DS)
Just random thoughts…….and opinions……

 

[4Jacy]

Or had she already listened to the message and was getting ready to go to the hospital? And was chased down the hall and the towel fell away?

Very good point!!

Why is everyone either taking a shower or in the bathroom????

BBM

You're killing me here :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

We've been 'hoteling it' because we got 3 ft. of water in the house (no basement, thank you) because of Irene. Just got everything cleaned out and we have a flood watch until 10:00 tonight!! Missed you guys~..~

 

[justice be served]

The attorney for RN's family has disputed the findings in Max's death and also implicated his siblings.

What answers are they screaming about? Max's death was ruled an accident.
I just don't understand their outrage, which seems to be focused more about Max.

BBM
NONE of us needs to understand their outrage. They lost a love one. We are not Rebecca's family and have no place in judging their needs. But to deny them the right to have some closure and peace of mind is simply not fair. Rebecca was a victim and that's what this forum is all about - victim's rights.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm not so sure the Shacknais would be so quick to attack the Zahau's. The net-net is perhaps not worth it. Do they really want to re-open that can of worms and give the Zahau team rights to further discovery? Jonah seems quite satisfied with the finding as is; there seemed no desire on his part to further the investigation.

Btw, if one recalls the OJ matter, the civil wrongful death suit had a different standard of evidence: a "preponderance" as opposed to "beyond a reasonable doubt". A lesser standard.

Yes, I do believe he would act that quickly. Personally, I dont think he has anything to fear. I firmly believe he was not there when Max was gravely injured nor when Rebecca died nor was Dina, imo.

A preponderance of what though?


IMO

 

[justice be served]

RN took her sister to the airport. Picked up AS at airport. Did she take AS to the hospital to spend time with JS and MS? Or did they pick up JS and go to dinner? Then JS was dropped back off at hospital. RN and AS went to the mansion; AS last saw RN at 8 pm?

If his sole purpose was to go to San Diego to provide support to his brother, why did he not stay at hospital????
If someone called RN and left a voicemail with the current medical condition about MS, why wouldn't AS receive the same message???? Why wouldn't he want to go back to the hospital and be supportive for JS???? That was his reasoning for coming to town!!!

RN would have had to turn on lights as she made her trek around the property and house gathering her supplies.....She definitely would have needed to have the light on in the guest room to complete her pain staking tasks....

JS heard/saw nothing until 6:45 am?????? The guest house is close to the end of the house where guest room is located.

I agree; all we have is more questions....

BBM
Could it be that Rebecca called for AS to come to Coronado and not Jonah?

 

[time]

Time, one of my first posts theorized there was a bondage element to either the suicide or murder of Rebecca. And now that we see the complexity of the bindings via video in the law enforcement report - I feel even more strongly that someone knew way more about this sort of thing than the average bear. I didn't have the heart to research how the actual bindings may relate to the Shibari or S&M methodology though. I just know that the simplicity of what LE was intending to show in her bindings seemed to be anything but simple.

I agree... why it would have those elements I don't know. They should have immediately tried to check if anyone close to Rebecca might be interested in bondage even if that person is not into BDSM/S&M stuff. Mostly, someone seems to know how to tie those knots. This is not anything someone does during a suicide. Think about it... it's unnecessary in order to complete the task for one. That note on the door looks to scream out murder to me, not some convoluted 'message' written before committing suicide. You really have to strain to make it make any sense Rebecca painted that.

I have big questions about many things, but right now I'm wondering...

Could she, in fact, have been hung from below, left standing on the table - that goes with "Can You Save Her" - there are also other alternative scenarios I can come up with and have all the evidence explained. How come the table leg seems to have been broken before Adam cut her down per LE? Why does it look like she could have been standing on that table? For that matter, I'm not sure you could recreate the tying up, walking to the balcony, and rolling over the edge given what we have been told and why didn't they fully recreate it.

How significant is the other physical evidence that seems discarded... things not marked as evidence, blood on her, tape/tape remnants, chair tipped over, blunt force trauma on the top of her head, and whatever else we do NOT know!

I'm also wondering if a full life like animation given the correct body size of Max, all the correct dimensions (maybe they had them already), and accurate physics (acceleration, body mass, thrust, arc of motion, or whatever in relation to the abilities of Max and where would he have had to start from to gain that acceleration and so forth) would produce the results they claim. If they couldn't produce a scientifically close model, where are their calculations for inspection. Possibly, it just looks a little off to me, but I don't have any alternative scenarios. I'd just like to hear from a second forensic/physics person if they can recreate that.

 

[elementry]

I bet she had the best - most likely iPhone or Droid. Read that it was a new phone. Maybe her AZ phone did not get good reception in CA, so she needed a phone that worked better. Must be one with texting capabilities if she really had a diary on the phone. That is another odd part of this story. Who has a diary on their phone? And there is something about the LE not being able to determine when diary started - why not?


In regards to Z family attorney- I would expect what she says is the truth. We know that JS machine has been trying to control media. So, this new attorney may be telling us the truth, but it is contradictory to prior incorrect stories fed to the media by PR firm. RN sister still alive, so she knows who was present when MS fell, so that truth will come out.

Can you imagine the embarrassing crap that Sitrick and Company have been hired to explain away or even cover up for their high profile clients over the years. It's said they're the best at what they do. Probably some pretty ugly stuff they've been hired to manage from time to time. Why isn't MyBelle upset with them being very active on this case. Don't they have a strong agenda too? And we know they're raking in the dough over this double tragedy.

 

[elementry]

Yes, I do believe he would act that quickly. Personally, I dont think he has anything to fear. I firmly believe he was not there when Max was gravely injured nor when Rebecca died nor was Dina, imo.

A preponderance of what though?


IMO

Let the discovery and re-investigation proceed and maybe we'll find out. If there's nothing there and LE was entirely correct in their conclusion, a more thorough vetting will confirm that - AND take the cloud away from the seeming half-baked quality of their presentation of the investigation such as it was and such as it has been shut down. :fence:

 

[jjenny]

BBM
Could it be that Rebecca called for AS to come to Coronado and not Jonah?

I can not imagine why she'd call for AS to come to Coronado if JS didn't ask AS to come. AS is JS's brother, not RN's. By the way I am curious-if JS called RN and left a message about Max's worsening condition, would he not also call AS with that same message? After all AS appears to have come to support JS because the child had an accident.

 

[katydid23]

Indeed? Then how did AS enter the house (to get a knife)? He either forced the door, or else it was unlocked. I suppose he could have had a key to both the guest house and to the main house...

Maybe he got the knife from the guest house?

 

[sdcali]

Time, one of my first posts theorized there was a bondage element to either the suicide or murder of Rebecca. And now that we see the complexity of the bindings via video in the law enforcement report - I feel even more strongly that someone knew way more about this sort of thing than the average bear. I didn't have the heart to research how the actual bindings may relate to the Shibari or S&M methodology though. I just know that the simplicity of what LE was intending to show in her bindings seemed to be anything but simple.

I wonder, too, how long LE had to study how RN's hands were bound to duplicate the binding and if the person doing it in the video was being coached instructions to aid in the demonstation? How many times did it take? IMO, a better test would be to ask someone with the same knowledge of ropes/knots/etc that RN had, to bind and tie their wrists behind their back and see what they come up (taking into consideration,too, the exposure they have had to the case in the media and that RN had no such exposure at the time of her death). It would be an interesting scenario.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

How do we know that Jonah was angry when he called Rebecca to give her the bad news?

He could have been filled with raw emotional grief and crying uncontrollably as he left the voice mail. He could have said "Oh god, Rebecca, they are telling us that Max is going to die.'

This is a powerful man yet he took time away from his CEO job in order to be with his children. I don't think he would be angry at this stage. I think he would be numb and in disbelief.

If he was upset and crying then that would make Rebecca's emotions filled with more despair adding to the guilt she already felt from Max getting hurt on her watch. He was at the hospital having to face this horrible news and Dina wouldnt even let Rebecca come there to console him.

I think Rebecca may have been sleeping and didn't get to the phone in time before it went over to voice mail but it awoke her and she listened to the message laid the phone down and began to think about killing herself.

IMO

 

[jjenny]

How do we know that Jonah was angry when he called Rebecca to give her the bad news?

He could have been filled with raw emotional grief and crying uncontrollably as he left the voice mail. He could have said "Oh god, Rebecca, they are telling us that Max is going to die.'

This is a powerful man yet he took time away from his CEO job in order to be with his children. I don't think he would be angry at this stage. I think he would be numb and in disbelief.

If he was upset and crying then that would make Rebecca's emotions filled with more despair adding to the guilt she already felt from Max getting hurt on her watch. He was at the hospital having to face this horrible news and Dina wouldnt even let Rebecca come there to console him.

I think Rebecca may have been sleeping and didn't get to the phone in time before it went over to voice mail but it awoke her and she listened to the message laid the phone down and began to think about killing herself.

IMO

No, we don't know what was in the message because it has been erased. But does the MO of this so-called suicide is that of a person filled with grief and guilt? A bizarre message on the door, her being naked, bound and gagged? To me it doesn't fit as what person filling guilty would do. Someone guilty might leave a message saying how guilty they felt-not the bizarre one like she supposedly left, IMO. And LE didn't even carry out psychological autopsy.

 

[time]

Originally Posted by i.b.nora
Good work! We know from the plan drawings that had to do with the architectural proposed changes, that the height from the ground to the floor of the balcony is 11'0". We can estimate that the height of the garden table is about 29". I don't know if those are things you have already figured out.

I thought the balcony plans were for the oceanside of the mansion......could be wrong.

If those measurements are fairly accurate that leaves about 8'7" from the top of the table to the floor of the balcony. How high is the balcony railing?

 

[katydid23]

And they think she couldn't bother to put on some clothes even though she had to have spend a lot of time planning and carrying out the elaborate suicide?
Do they think she was naked in the shower and then went around to the garage for the rope while also in the nude even though boyfriends brother was staying in a guest house in very close proximity to the house?

A few people posted data upstream in this thread indicating that many times women who kill themselves choose to do so naked. I thought it was really strange and unusual, but apparently not.

And we do not know that she ran around the house naked gathering the supplies. Maybe she was wearing the blue t-shirt at the time.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No, we don't know what was in the message because it has been erased. But does the MO of this so-called suicide is that of a person filled with grief and guilt? A bizarre message on the door, her being naked, bound and gagged? To me it doesn't fit as what person filling guilty would do. Someone guilty might leave a message saying how guilty they felt-not the bizarre one like she supposedly left, IMO. And LE didn't even carry out psychological autopsy.

It will never make sense to people that have never contemplated suicide or carried it out.

Only Rebecca can tell why she decided to do it this way.

IMO

 

[jjenny]

A few people posted data upstream in this thread indicating that many times women who kill themselves choose to do so naked. I thought it was really strange and unusual, but apparently not.

And we do not know that she ran around the house naked gathering the supplies. Maybe she was wearing the blue t-shirt at the time.

It is strange and unusual. Especially outside. Most naked suicides occur indoors.

 

[elementry]

How do we know that Jonah was angry when he called Rebecca to give her the bad news?

He could have been filled with raw emotional grief and crying uncontrollably as he left the voice mail. He could have said "Oh god, Rebecca, they are telling us that Max is going to die.'

This is a powerful man yet he took time away from his CEO job in order to be with his children. I don't think he would be angry at this stage. I think he would be numb and in disbelief.

If he was upset and crying then that would make Rebecca's emotions filled with more despair adding to the guilt she already felt from Max getting hurt on her watch. He was at the hospital having to face this horrible news and Dina wouldnt even let Rebecca come there to console him.

I think Rebecca may have been sleeping and didn't get to the phone in time before it went over to voice mail but it awoke her and she listened to the message laid the phone down and began to think about killing herself.

IMO

Well stated and reasoned.

On another point, in a suicidal state of mind, why the loud music, I wonder. Also wonder what (whomever) was playing specifically.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well stated and reasoned.

On another point, in a suicidal state of mind, why the loud music, I wonder. Also wonder what (whomever) was playing specifically.

Thank you.

I really don't know about the music, elementry. Was that ever confirmed?

I have read in articles that those contemplating suicide will play music right before they commit the act.

Why they do so... I don't know... unless they feel some kind of peace knowing that they have made up their minds to ease their pain and want to enjoy listening to music before they do it.

Just guessing though.

 

[jjenny]

It will never make sense to people that have never contemplated suicide or carried it out.

Only Rebecca can tell why she decided to do it this way.

IMO

If that were true, psychological autopsy wouldn't be a standard procedure in bizarre suicide cases, which LE here decided not to do for whatever reason. As I recall the LE was also going to do re-enactment in the mansion itself and then decided not to do that either.