CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #10

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  • #361
Hanging (Signs Of)
Hanging is a form of strangulation where a noose is pulled tight around the neck by the person's own body weight. The noose compresses the airways, cutting off the supply of oxygen to the lungs. It also compresses the carotid arteries, which carry blood to the brain. Both mechanisms cause asphyxia, in which body and brain are deprived of oxygen. However, asphyxia is not always the cause of death in hanging. In some cases, the pressure on the neck causes vagal inhibition, a reflex that leads to cardiac arrest. The forensic pathologist has to try to distinguish between hanging and other forms of strangulation and between suicidal, homicidal, and accidental hangings.

Most adult hangings are suicides. In children, hanging may occur by accident if they get themselves tangled up in clothes or a harness. Homicidal hanging is very rare and the generally the victim needs to be unconscious or intoxicated for such an act to occur. The ligature, that is, the material used to make the noose and suspend the victim, usually consists of whatever is at hand. Ropes, belts, and electric flex are among the most common ligatures in hangings. Clothing, washing lines, and even dog leads are sometimes used. The victim may use a fixed knot or a slip knot, the latter being particularly efficient at compressing the airways and blood vessels because it tightens so quickly under gravity.

Some hangings take place from a high point of suspension, where the body swings freely under gravity with the feet off the ground. However, hanging can also occur with the person kneeling, sitting, or half lying, from a relatively low point of suspension such as a doorknob or bedpost. The weight of the chest and arms is enough to provide fatal pressure on the neck; suspension of the whole body is not necessary. A tree is the most common suspension point in hangings occurring out of doors, but bridges or climbing frames have also been used. Indoors, there is a large range of suspension points including doors, banisters, rafters, and loft hatches, or practically any raised object. The circumstances of the hanging influence the signs on the body and the actual cause of death.

Suicide by hanging in prison is a particular problem. Obvious ligatures such as ropes or flex are clearly not made available. However, desperate people will fashion ropes out of bedclothes or their own clothes. Two of Britain's most notorious killers took their own lives by hanging in prison. Fred West hanged himself with a ligature made of strips of clothing in 1995, seemingly to avoid trial. In 2004, the serial killer Dr. Harold Shipman used bedclothes to hang himself from the window bars of his cell in Wakefield Prison.

An autopsy of a hanged body will often reveal neck markings. The nature of these depends on the type of noose. Few or no marks may be found with a noose made of a soft material like bed sheets. A rope or cord noose will, however, leave a deep furrow, often with accompanying abrasions and contusions. Hanging from a high suspension point leaves diagonal marks on the neck like an inverted V, which do not run around the full circumference of the neck. The point where the noose meets the vertical part of the rope is pulled up and away from the body and does not leave a mark on the neck. This can be used to distinguish a hanging from a manual strangulation. However, in a hanging from a low suspension point, the marks on the neck tend to be horizontal rather than diagonal and may look more characteristic of a manual strangulation.


High hangings are more likely to cause death by vagal inhibition, owing to the sudden pressure on the neck. The victim tends to be pale in such cases. A low hanging is more likely to lead to asphyxia and there may be some facial congestion and a purple protruding tongue. Asphyxia in hanging is usually related to the compression of the carotid arteries, rather than blockage of the airways. Petechial hemorrhages, caused by blood leaking from capillaries in the eyes owing to the pressure on the neck, are typical of many strangulations, but not often found in a hanging. Their absence can therefore help distinguish a hanging from other strangulations. The body may also show lividity due to pooling of blood in the legs, forearms, and hands.


http://webcache.googleusercontent....anging.aspx+hemorrhages+and+hangings?&ct=clnk
 
  • #362
I don't agree that LE need permission from an owner to erect a screen, place crime scene tape, remove doors etc. Consent is implied when LE was invited to the scene via the 911 call. No links so I'll note the above is my opinion.

I agree that it was a poor judgment call by LE. I don't believe it was out of lack of respect but more an oversight. Not much they can do about it now though other than make sure in any future case, it doesn't happen.

JMO

I never thought LE would need permission to remove a body either, but a couple of posters, early on in the threads, thought it was a potential reason for her body to be on public view for so long.

As for oversight, vs lack of respect, LE was present when media helicopters flew over the mansion and began filming.

Either way, it was bad form.
 
  • #363
I believe RZ had the type of petechial hemorrhages mentioned in the autopsy report.



from oceanblueeyes post:

"Petechial hemorrhages, caused by blood leaking from capillaries in the eyes owing to the
pressure on the neck, are typical of many strangulations, but not often found in a hanging.
Their absence can therefore help distinguish a hanging from other strangulations."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...anging.aspx+hemorrhages+and+hangings?&ct=clnk
 
  • #364
Here's some questions I have in my head. I'm to believe RZ had this completely under her control in a brilliant suicide.

How did she walk without falling when she was all bound up? How did she know for sure that she would clear that balcony railing without any ropes getting hung up on the scroll iron work? Wasn't she worried this was not a good plan and that she might not die?

She was also a first time "suicider" so how did she know to do all these things? LE didn't find any searches on how to do this on her computer.
 
  • #365
Well, the pathologist on HLN show says that RN had petechial hemorrhages on her face. Anyone have RN autopsy report to verify....

Autopsy report has been linked to the previous thread. It talks about her having many petechiae.
 
  • #366
Not saying this is a fact, just sharing a caller's theory.

A caller into VinnieP on HLN finally got it out there that maybe the father's daughter was there at MS's accident, and that the father wanted to cover this up for some reason.

New to forum but have been following this thread since beginning. I do remember reading that the daughter left the morning of max's accident. Who took her to the airport? When did she go? Have they been interviewed?
 
  • #367
I predicted this would come soon. It came quicker than I thought.

Shacknai attorney warns Zahau family attorney to 'cease and desist'

From Jonah Shacknai's attorney:

Dear Ms. Bremner,

I am an attorney for Jonah Shacknai, retained by him to address false public statements you have made, which have the effect of severely damaging Mr. Shacknai's personal and business reputations. Over the past several days, you have made a series of inaccurate and utterly unsupported statements about the facts surrounding the tragic deaths of Max Shacknai and Rebecca Zahau. However, what is most concerning are recent false public statements you have made that Mr. Shacknai, because of his business success, has somehow improperly influenced the investigations and conclusions of four different, and, independent California law enforcement agencies. You have further made public comments that these agencies have applied a different standard in conducting their investigations because of Mr. Shacknai's wealth. You have absolutely no facts to support these false and irresponsible statements, and you are fully aware that such facts do not exist. Please know that your false public statements constitute defamation, per se, and under law, entitle Mr. Shacknai to recover from you, and your law firm, substantial damages.

Much more at link.............

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15406681/shacknai-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-zahau-family-attorney
 
  • #368
Well I saw the lawyer today on JVM so I supposed she hasn't ceased and desisted so far.
 
  • #369
Iwannaknow, re read your post. In nursing school a well circumcised area, meant that the item looked at has well defined edges. When talking about nodules or tumors in the body, it's a good thing.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. Well defined borders, meaning generally it hasn't spread - correct? And is of uniform shape and size? However in this case, it is only an area of the polyp, not the entire polyp. It was only 1 x 0.6cm of the total area. I think I'm talking in circles. I read it to mean there was a well defined area within the polyp that I wondered if it might be actively bleeding. Did that make sense? And if it were, could that account for the amount of blood noted over a matter of hours. Like 6 or 7 hours? Leaving that small amount noted in the uterine cavity.
 
  • #370
and knowing Anne Bremmer .. she is not about too cease and desist ...
 
  • #371
I'll step away from the suicide vs. homicide part of this, but I do not believe that a hired killer killed in this elaborate manner...and if the parties with a "reason" to be angry with RN are truly out of the frame, due to alibis, who does that leave? Are people thinking his brother killed her?
 
  • #372
By the way what was that about RN being on her back? I missed that part, what was the reasoning behind that idea?
 
  • #373
I guess LE didn't anticipate the media outlet without ethics. I found it pretty disrespectful to publish such a photo.

If LE would have looked up they would have seen all the people standing and looking from balconies in other homes close by. Also one would think the helicopter above might have tipped them off that people were looking.

Sorry but I just find it very disrespectful to leave her out there for 12 hours with no tent or covering. I don't understand why they did that. Maybe it took that long to process the scene? But then again, LE was walking with boots on the terrace of a possible crime scene.

It's just all strange to me.
 
  • #374
Well, the pathologist on HLN show says that RN had petechial hemorrhages on her face. Anyone have RN autopsy report to verify....

http://www.scribd.com/doc/64114521/Reports
--autopsy report--


..page 7--

"many petechiae were noted on the eyelids and lower palpebral conjunctivae. there were a few petechiae noted on the inner, upper and lower lip mucosa."
 
  • #375
By the way what was that about RN being on her back? I missed that part, what was the reasoning behind that idea?

I've not found a transcript of the show Prime News yet, but the guest, a Dr. Kessler, said RZ was on her back when she died because of the pooling on her backside. At least that's how I understood him. I think others interpreted it differently. No link .. sorry. SO IMOO
 
  • #376
Yes, I understand what you are saying. Well defined borders, meaning generally it hasn't spread - correct? And is of uniform shape and size? However in this case, it is only an area of the polyp, not the entire polyp. It was only 1 x 0.6cm of the total area. I think I'm talking in circles. I read it to mean there was a well defined area within the polyp that I wondered if it might be actively bleeding. Did that make sense? And if it were, could that account for the amount of blood noted over a matter of hours. Like 6 or 7 hours? Leaving that small amount noted in the uterine cavity.

I honestly do not think that it would have caused the amount of bleeding that occurred. I think the report meant that it was that size polyp, but I am not sure about that. They start out very small and enlarge over time. I truly feel that she had more blood present than one small polyp would produce.

This is from ny own personal experience also.

Looked at the ME autopsy again, so edited to add:

I see that the polyp is larger. It is possible that the bleeding could be from the polyp, bit I would think that if this was a problem Rebecca was having, she would have discussed it with a gyn as it can also mean infection, cancer or other issues also. I also think the ME would have seen bleeding around and on the polyp, if this was the cause.
 
  • #377
New to forum but have been following this thread since beginning. I do remember reading that the daughter left the morning of max's accident. Who took her to the airport? When did she go? Have they been interviewed?

..according to the investigative/autopsy report R took her to the airport the next day ( the refer to her as R's sister-------but it was GS that was there.)


http://www.scribd.com/doc/64114521/Reports
--page 2---

all3outtodinner.jpg
 
  • #378
In my opinion, one of the most significant issues in this case is the sailor knots. Dr Drew named each one last night and stated they were the type of knots used in sailing.
 
  • #379
No, I believe the one RN took to the airport on Tuesday is her sister. RN's family did confirm the sister was there and was injured cleaning up a chandelier.
 
  • #380
If LE would have looked up they would have seen all the people standing and looking from balconies in other homes close by. Also one would think the helicopter above might have tipped them off that people were looking.

Sorry but I just find it very disrespectful to leave her out there for 12 hours with no tent or covering. I don't understand why they did that. Maybe it took that long to process the scene? But then again, LE was walking with boots on the terrace of a possible crime scene.

It's just all strange to me.

Hi Chasing,

That's what some of us were furious about from the beginning. They got a warrant to enter the house. They were in the house when her body was lying outside. It was horribly disrespectful! I've seen tarps put up in minutes after a body was found to keep the media from getting those pictures.
 
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