CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #10

[SunnieRN]

9/7 CNN: Attorney: Message, scalp bruises cast doubt on mansion suicide

"I think the facts and analysis (from a team of experts she is gathering) should compel them to reopen it," Bremner said.

... four subgaleal hemorrhages -- between the scalp and skull on top of the head ...

"You only get those from blunt force trauma," Wecht said. "That means your head struck something or was struck by something. I repeat for emphasis: four separate locations. The head is contoured; to have it bruised in different places, that means you have to strike different parts of the head."

"Going by (investigators') scenario, (her) jumping from the balcony, there is no way I can understand how ... you get four bruises on top of the head."

Sheriff's Sgt. Dave Nemeth said of the slip knots on her wrists and neck: "There would not appear to be anything expert about it," he said.

Nesbit said the sheriff's department is aware of the concerns raised by Wecht and that none of them alters its confidence in its investigation or the medical examiner's suicide ruling.

"We're standing by our investigation," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/09/07/california.mansion.deaths/

Thank you Questor, I missed this one and this is one of the main reasons I can not accept the autopsy report as written. Too many loose ends, including this.

 

[LCoastMom]

Question: were her hands tied in front or behind her? If behind, then I don't think there's any way she could tie a specific knot - or hardly any knot - herself.

They were tied behind her.

 

[belimom]

The only thing I can add to that is this. She was on her back for over 6 hours after she died. AS cut her down and there she laid until that night when the ME collected her body.

So, how much time has to pass after a person dies for this "blood pooling" to occur? If she died at 3 a.m. and hung there until 6:30 a.m. would the blood not have pooled into her legs and feet? Or is it that then when she was cut down and left there for nearly 12 hours, that caused it in a different part of her body?

I am no expert in this at all, but it seems to me that if rigor mortis had set in, then the blood would have thickened (?) and the veins would have been so stiff (?) that it would not have pooled significantly again. (I put the question marks because I'm just thinking out loud here - I have no idea, really, but it seems to me to make sense. I'm sure someone else may know more.)

 

[HowLoveCanBe]

That part is the easiest for me to imagine. The balcony enclosure was a scroll iron work pattern and if she didn't push out far enough when she jumped over her head could have struck that part of the balcony when going over.

They are very small hemorrhages and didn't result in any brain bleeding or bleeding inside of the skull cavity either.

IMO

Also there has been indications that she may have fallen in a horizontal position. I can imagine that she's leaning on her left side - then pushing up with the toes. Angular momentum might cause her to hit her head on the other side of the balcony.

 

[SunnieRN]

Question: were her hands tied in front or behind her? If behind, then I don't think there's any way she could tie a specific knot - or hardly any knot - herself.

Behind her. If you go to the San Diego County sheriff department website, you can find the video under coronado mansion death.

 

[belimom]

They were tied behind her.

Then the only way - IMHO - that could happen is if someone else did it OR if she did it in front (still hard to do) then stepped through her arms to put them behind her. I can't test that out b/c I have a herniated disk... and I'm not that limber anymore anyway... :innocent:

Anyone else want to try it?

 

[elfie]

Well, if a hit man killed her and did so by bonking her on the head, then binding her and gagging her so she could not escape or call for help when she came to, that would not be hanging around for an extended period of time. That would be part of the murder.

However, I can't see a hit man spending time writing a vague message on a door. You are absolutely right on that one and that rules out a hit man for me.

As far as Bremner and JS's cease and desist letter, if he is innocent, I don't blame him a bit. I don't see that as callous. He's not demanding that the Zahau's be quiet about their concerns. He's demanding that Bremner not flap her gums with unfounded allegations.

That "planking" allegation has driven me mad. I don't see a shred of evidence pointing to that or to his siblings being involved in Max's accident. I think it was just a horrible accident and I think Bremner likes to make bizarre statements with no basis in logic, to bolster her position. So if she is making certain statements with no evidence to back them up, statements that point blame in certain directions, I don't like that.

I am very dissatisfied with the evidence released or rather, the evidence not released in Rebecca's case. There is too much that seems off or is unanswered and in a case involving a powerful, rich guy and two bizarre deaths at his house, one that looks like outright murder, the public has a right to know what the heck is going on, IMO.

However, I do not like Bremner as an attorney. She brings the circus with her. She was ludicrously unprofessional when it came to the casey anthony case IMO. And while I haven't seen anything yet that has seemed too out of line with her statements in connection to this case, I believe she has the capacity to make stuff up to get a reaction and if she is simply throwing whatever she can against the wall to see what sticks, then JS has a right to protect himself and his family.

We'll see, I guess if Bremner is simply making things up or if she has any evidence to back up her statements, allegations and inferences.

I agree. I don't see how planking could have been involved at all. I don't see the need or the desire to involve Max's siblings, either. Very sad approach.

 

[HowLoveCanBe]

:fence:

No, I didn't. Is there a link?

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/

 

[jjenny]

The only thing I can add to that is this. She was on her back for over 6 hours after she died. AS cut her down and there she laid until that night when the ME collected her body.

So, how much time has to pass after a person dies for this "blood pooling" to occur? If she died at 3 a.m. and hung there until 6:30 a.m. would the blood not have pooled into her legs and feet? Or is it that then when she was cut down and left there for nearly 12 hours, that caused it in a different part of her body?

If she hanged herself at 3 am and was cut down after 6:30 she would have been hanging for 3 and a half hours. The blood should have started pooling in the lowest parts of the body which would be legs if she was hanging by her neck.
"The pooling of the blood can be a vital clue in determining the time of death and is known as hypostasis. This occurs when the blood ceases flowing, settling in the lowest parts of the body and in turn, causing the skin to become pink and red in colour. This process is complete in up to 6 hours after death. The main use of blood pooling analysis actually lies in helping to determine the death manner (noting that the location of the blood pools indicates the upright position of the body at the time of blood pooling) The process does however, form a method of predicting the time since death."

http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_ta_time_since_death.htm

 

[SunnieRN]

I am no expert in this at all, but it seems to me that if rigor mortis had set in, then the blood would have thickened (?) and the veins would have been so stiff (?) that it would not have pooled significantly again. (I put the question marks because I'm just thinking out loud here - I have no idea, really, but it seems to me to make sense. I'm sure someone else may know more.)

Blood Pooling
Top^
The pooling of the blood can be a vital clue in determining the time of death and is known as hypostasis. This occurs when the blood ceases flowing, settling in the lowest parts of the body and in turn, causing the skin to become pink and red in colour. This process is complete in up to 6 hours after death. The main use of blood pooling analysis actually lies in helping to determine the death manner (noting that the location of the blood pools indicates the upright position of the body at the time of blood pooling) The process does however, form a method of predicting the time since death.

From this site:http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_ta_time_since_death.htm

 

[curiousjo]

Remember once RN was found hanging naked, soneone leaked to press that she slept in the nude. Well, after reading autopsy report siting woman clothing, makeup wipes and glass of clear fluid in one suite and suitcase in the other....it is suggestive of RN sleeping in guesthouse. That report is not clear if the 2 suites are connected or separte rooms. So, was she sleeping in nude by AS? I could see RN not wanting to sleep in mansion after terrible accident, and main staircase possibly still closed off by LE. Not to mention wanting company, since JS was at hospital, JS kids and her sister gone, even dog gone...... She was all alone, except for JS baby brother.

 

[SunnieRN]

grrr double post!

 

[SunnieRN]

If she hanged herself at 3 am and was cut down after 6:30 she would have been hanging for 3 and a half hours. The blood should have started pooling in the lowest parts of the body which would be legs if she was hanging by her neck.
"The pooling of the blood can be a vital clue in determining the time of death and is known as hypostasis. This occurs when the blood ceases flowing, settling in the lowest parts of the body and in turn, causing the skin to become pink and red in colour. This process is complete in up to 6 hours after death. The main use of blood pooling analysis actually lies in helping to determine the death manner (noting that the location of the blood pools indicates the upright position of the body at the time of blood pooling) The process does however, form a method of predicting the time since death."

http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_ta_time_since_death.htm

jinx:seeya: I love this site!!

 

[belimom]

Did Max fall down the stairs, or did he fall off the banister onto the floor below? I am still trying to wrap my head around how a child could die simply falling down the stairs. I know that's not really part of Rebecca's case, but it has bothered me since Day One. I have fallen down stairs. A friend's baby fell down an entire flight of stairs. Both of my (somewhat elderly) parents have fallen down the stairs in the past few years. Heck, even my grandmother lost her balance, fell off the top of some stairs, and landed on her head, and she was in her 90s at the time. She was knocked out but okay. She's *still* fine at 99... We're all fine. I know freak accidents can happen, but that is just what it is - a little freaky to me. JMHO. (had to get this off my chest)

 

[jjenny]

jinx:seeya:

Great minds think alike. Or something like that.:floorlaugh:

 

[HowLoveCanBe]

I agree. I don't see how planking could have been involved at all. I don't see the need or the desire to involve Max's siblings, either. Very sad approach.

I think there may have been planking before Max's fall. I don't think it had anything to do with his fall. If AB can raise doubts about LE's case on how Max died because on that day near the time of the fall there was planking going on - that gives her an opening for more discovery... more questioning... and then all bets are off case file is wide open.

 

[jjenny]

Sorry if this has been stated but she was lying on her back for hours on the grass. The fall was 9ft.

Yes but she should have been hanging first presumably in an upright position, for hours. The process of blood pooling is done within six hours.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Also there has been indications that she may have fallen in a horizontal position. I can imagine that she's leaning on her left side - then pushing up with the toes. Angular momentum might cause her to hit her head on the other side of the balcony.

I agree totally. I posted this morning I thought she went of at an angle.

The small hemorrhages are insignificant to me.

IMO

 

[HowLoveCanBe]

Did Max fall down the stairs, or did he fall off the banister onto the floor below? I am still trying to wrap my head around how a child could die simply falling down the stairs. I know that's not really part of Rebecca's case, but it has bothered me since Day One. I have fallen down stairs. A friend's baby fell down an entire flight of stairs. Both of my (somewhat elderly) parents have fallen down the stairs in the past few years. Heck, even my grandmother lost her balance, fell off the top of some stairs, and landed on her head, and she was in her 90s at the time. She was knocked out but okay. She's *still* fine at 99... We're all fine. I know freak accidents can happen, but that is just what it is - a little freaky to me. JMHO. (had to get this off my chest)

The police also have diagrams of how they believe the fall happened on their website.

 

[SunnieRN]

Did Max fall down the stairs, or did he fall off the banister onto the floor below? I am still trying to wrap my head around how a child could die simply falling down the stairs. I know that's not really part of Rebecca's case, but it has bothered me since Day One. I have fallen down stairs. A friend's baby fell down an entire flight of stairs. Both of my (somewhat elderly) parents have fallen down the stairs in the past few years. Heck, even my grandmother lost her balance, fell off the top of some stairs, and landed on her head, and she was in her 90s at the time. She was knocked out but okay. She's *still* fine at 99... We're all fine. I know freak accidents can happen, but that is just what it is - a little freaky to me. JMHO. (had to get this off my chest)

There is a reenactment on the same san diego sheriff website. I will admit it is with an adult sized figure, but may help.