CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #10

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  • #601
There is a set of footprints then not even a fool foot print close to the railing. That suggest she hopped onto the balcony then hopped one more time and fell off. When would she be binding her hands while on the balcony? If she stopped on the balcony to bind her hands I would expect more footprints.

(Graphic comments below ... if you do not want to read them ... don't)

and then we have the dust and the fact of the exertion to do all this "prep" work and maybe a shower before hand. I would think that she would be perspiring heavily and there would be sweat droplets in that dust beside the toe prints, and I am also aware that the sweat would dry up, but it would leave tiny collision marks in that dust, and what about the blood? Did the bleeding occur on her way down or at the end of the drop or was it occurring during the prep work? Every time I read about this case I have many more questions than answers. Thanks.
 
  • #602
Just increased the contrast and brought the blacks way down.
Looks like more toe impressions in the front, not heals. imo
 

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  • #603
Wow - I've been on this forum far too long tonight. I also feel out of place a little since I haven't been following from the beginning and am playing catch up. I think I'm signing off for the night, but I still think both deaths are highly suspicious... and above all, terribly tragic...

Good to have you here belimom. I've been wanting to invite you over to this Rebeccas thread because I know you have extensive experience in ropes & knots! I hope you stay with us!
 
  • #604
Okay, been snooping around and saw this .. the top pic was taken in the morning by a news helicopter .. doors closed, no rope. Bottom pic is the one from the PC with the rope.

https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/xJBccc

This really bothers me. This pic shows the rope hanging down after dark:

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B5...MjY5NjBkMjQ2MDdi&sort=name&layout=list&num=50

They absolutely staged this crime scene for pictures. She was found while it was light out, there was no rope in the helicopter pics that morning, yet suddenly it's dark and the rope is back. I'm not sure why they pulled the rope up to begin with, but this is ridiculous. I go between suicide and murder, but this was shoddy, shoddy police work from the beginning. Inexcusable.
 
  • #605
A few points. I don't have a link to the AR, I'm typing this out from the paper copy I made. All color and bolding by me.

Things we have seen already, from page 7:
On the anterolateral mid left shin there is a 1 x 5/8 inch gray piece of material and two smaller similar pieces just distal to it, measuring 1/4 inch and 3/8 inch (Comment: appears similar to tape residue). On the lateral distal right lower leg there is a 1-1/4 x 5/8 inch area consisting of three horizontally oriented, parallel, somewhat evenly spaced, areas of sticky, tan-gray apparent tape residue. They are situated between 3/16 and 5/16 inch apart.

Now, compare that to this, page 11:
RIGHT LOWER EXTREMITY
There are contusions in the area subjacent to the ligatures around the lower legs. On the posterior distal right lower leg there is an obliquely oriented, 2 x 1/4 inch, red contusion. Just distal to this is a 3-1/2 x 1/2 inch red contusion. Both angle upward as they move medially. There are also gray parallel compression marks distal to this but no red discoloration. On the posterior distal right lower leg, just lateral to where the contour of the Achilles tendon merges with the calf, there is a 1 x 1/2 inch red contusion. On the anterior aspect of the proximal right ankle there is a 2 x 1 inch red contusion. On the anterior aspect of the proximal right ankle there is a 2 x 1 inch red contusion with a centeral area of pallor. Just proximal to this there is an ill-defined, 1-3/4 x 1 inch apparent red contusion. On the dorsomedial aspect of the mid right foot there is a 2-1/8 x 1/2 inch group of four discrete red abrasion ranging from punctate to 1/4 inch.

On the anterior mid right shin there is a 2 x 1 inch subcutaneous hemorrhage without overlying skin changes.

On the posterolateral right thigh there are two blue contusions measuring 3/4 x 3/8 inch and 3/8 x 3/8 inch.

and page 12:
LEFT LOWER EXTREMITY
On the posterior mid left calf there is an obliquely oriented, 1-1/8 inch, thin, linear red abrasion. In the area subjacent to the ligatures around the lower legs there are red contusions. On the anterior left ankle, just left of midline, there is a 1-1/2 x 3/4 inch red contusion. On the medial left ankle, just proximal to the left medial malleolus, there is a 3/4 inch diameter red contusion. On the posterior distal left calf there is a 3/8 inch diameter red contusion. Subjacent to it there is a corresponding subcutaneous hemorrhage. Just distal to this and extending onto the lateral side of the distal left lower leg there is a 3/4 x 1/4 inch bluish contusion. Just distal to this is a 1 1/4 x 1/2 inch horizontally oriented, red contusion. On the anterolateral mid left lower leg there is a 1/2 inch diameter subcutaneous hemorrhage unassociated with a contusion visible on the surface of the skin. There is no other subcutaneous hemorrhage associated with the contusions described.

On the anterolateral and lateral aspect of the lower leg covering most of this area, there is a 7-1/2 x 4-1/2 inch group of dispersed, variably oriented, linear and small, irregular red abrasions. Many of the thin linear abrasions are angled from posterior and inferior to anterior and superior. They measure up to 1-1/2 inches. There are other perpendicular linear abrasions measuring up to 3/4 inches. The irregular abrasions measure up to 1/4 inch. On the posterolaterl left knee and proximal left popliteal fossa there are three linear, nearly vertically oriented, red abrasions measuring up to 1/2 inch and a single 1/8 inch red abrasion.

Please keep in mind, from my understanding, when they say contusion they mean bruise in layman's terms. So, to recap, they found tape on her lower legs, left mid shin, on the outside toward her back, three separate areas of tape residue and she has 14 (or more depending upon how you read it) SEPARATE bruises. Her right leg had three separate areas with tape, closely aligned (between 3/16 and 5/16 inch apart) and 8 bruises, not counting the ones on her foot that could have been the cactus. This doesn't say "punctate", which is mentioned in other parts - mostly her back, which could be accounted for by the cactus under the balcony. How, how, how did her legs get so beaten and bruised from diving off that balcony, ESPECIALLY if the head wounds are to be accounted for by the balcony railing? That would imply to me that her head took the brunt of the fall. She was 26 1/2" from the ground, it wasn't the cactus and I don't belive the cactus would bruise like that, just put puncture holes like they mention on her back. Added to the fact that they find tape residue on her legs.......you be the judge. And how does her back get so beaten and bruised, but her chest is untouched and there are three abrasions on her abdomen? Shouldn't there only be one from going over the railing?

From page 10:
TORSO:
Chest: None.

:waitasec:


Also page 9:
HEAD AND NECK:
Posteriorly, there is a parallel, thin, red line situated 1/8 inch below the dried ligature furrow for a distance of 2-1/2 inches and separated from it by an area of pallor.

and, same page, same section:
On the lateral and anterolateral right neck, roughly parallel with the ligature furrow above the thyroid cartilage and the 2-3/4 inch red extension on the right neck, and perpendicular to the pale compression furrow on the posterolateral right neck, there is a pair of thin linear marks. They converge from being separated by a distance of 1 inch posteriorly to a distance of 1/2 inch anteriorly, just to the right of the midline.

I'm not Quincy, but this all looks really hinky to me. Thought I would point it out.
 
  • #606
Forgive me if this has already been noted, but if RZ is 5’3” and she was estimated to be hanging 2’2” off the ground, that puts the top of her head at 7.5 feet. Why did AS need to stand on a table to cut the rope that theoretically would have been cut-able just above RZ’s neck?
Do we know how tall AS is?

I don't know why Adam had to use the table to retrieve her but I do believe he did do exactly as he told LE.

Imo, she did not drop 9 feet. The rope above her neck area would only be approximately 2-3 feet from the balcony that was attached to her neck. To drop 9 feet would mean she had to free fall for 9 feet and then the rope tightened but that didn't happen.

Her neck was just feet away from the balcony. It really was a short fall from where she went off to where the rope was around her neck. IMO, that is why there is no breaking of the neck.

imo
 
  • #607
I don't know why Adam had to use the table to retrieve her but I do believe he did do exactly as he told LE.

Imo, she did not drop 9 feet. The rope above her neck area would only be approximately 2-3 feet from the balcony that was attached to her neck. To drop 9 feet would mean she had to free fall for 9 feet and then the rope tightened but that didn't happen.

Her neck was just feet away from the balcony. It really was a short fall from where she went off to where the rope was around her neck. IMO, that is why there is no breaking of the neck.

imo

The autopsy report clearly says she dropped 9t. It couldn't be more clear:
Long drop (9 ft) hanging from a small second store balcony.
 
  • #608
The autopsy report clearly says she dropped 9t. It couldn't be more clear:
Long drop (9 ft) hanging from a small second store balcony.

Yes, her entire body was found hanging 9 feet from the balcony. From the top of her head to her feet. However the point of pressure on her neck was not from jumping 9 feet but from going off the railing and the noose being around her neck only feet from the jumping off place.

If she had 'jumped' 9 feet when the rope tightened then with her being 5'3' her body would have slammed into the ground. Because 9 feet and 5 feet would be 14 feet and the balcony is not even that high up. Then you also have to add the two feet where she was suspended off the ground.

IMO
 
  • #609
Yes, her entire body was found haning 9 feet from the balcony. From the top of her head to her feet. However the point of pressure on her neck was not from jumping 9 feet but from going off the railing and the noose being around her neck only feet from the jumping off place.

If she had 'jumped' 9 feet then with her being 5'3' her body would have slammed into the ground. Because 9 feet and 5 feet would be 14 feet and the balcony is not even that high up.

IMO

No. The autopsy very clearly states that the distance from the top of the railing to the ligature on her neck was 9 feet 2 inches, and says her feet would be 2 feet above ground.
 
  • #610
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging"]Hanging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Pisanello_010.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Pisanello_010.jpg/220px-Pisanello_010.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/d/dc/Pisanello_010.jpg/220px-Pisanello_010.jpg[/ame]
BBM
Forensic experts may often be able to tell if hanging is suicide or homicide, as each leaves a distinctive ligature mark. One of the hints they use is the hyoid bone. If broken, it often means the person has been murdered by manual choking.

Autopsy Report
Page 10
Internal
There is a hemorrhagic fracture of the left arm of the hyoid bone with downward displacement of the distal end. The fracture is 3/8 inches from the tip. There is a small amount of hemorrhage associated with it. There is also a fracture of the base of the left superior horn of the thyroid cartilage, 5/8 inches from its tip.

Yikes! I don't like that photo that comes up with wiki......but it comes with the link. Sorry!!!!!
 
  • #611
No. The autopsy very clearly states that the distance from the top of the railing to the ligature on her neck was 9 feet 2 inches, and says her feet would be 2 feet above ground.

Not sure how this would work. We've seen in documents (I'm sorry, I don't have a link right now) that the bottom of the balcony is 11 ft from the ground. Add maybe 3 for the railing, and you're at 14 feet. She was 5'3", so that plus 9 feet would already have her feet on the ground. It had to have been less than 9.

9 feet 2 inches plus 5'3" (minus the length of her head) would put her toes on the ground.
 
  • #612
The ropes - I changed my mind - I think they're the same. I zoomed in very close so I'm sorry if the first one is so tiny, but you can see that under the bed where it doesn't appear to have been pulled at taught, the smaller braids are more visible. That's exactly how the one if the video would look under the same sort of loose pressure. (make sense?) I do think now that it may be the same type of rope: (ETA: But I still don't think she did it herself... MOO...)

Evidence Photo:

attachment.php



Video:

attachment.php

It's possible that they are similar since neither material has been described. The angle of the V shape in the braiding on the rope at the scene is much wider than the demonstration rope in the video. I looked again at the rope angle on the railing on the balcony and it does appear to hang straight down like a softer line would.
 
  • #613
Not sure how this would work. We've seen in documents (I'm sorry, I don't have a link right now) that the bottom of the balcony is 11 ft from the ground. Add maybe 3 for the railing, and you're at 14 feet. She was 5'3", so that plus 9 feet would already have her feet on the ground. It had to have been less than 9.

9 feet 2 inches plus 5'3" (minus the length of her head) would put her toes on the ground.

I haven't seen any documents that says the bottom of the balcony is 11 ft from the ground. Which documents? The autopsy is very clear that her hanging was a 9 ft long drop. 9ft is listed in several places.
 
  • #614
Not the same rope, but it is a 7/16" two person tow rope. Note the description.

http://boatingsavings.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/60-stearns-7-16-tube-tow-rope-yellow.aspx?a=627805
BBM
Solid braid made of multifilament polypropylene that provides a soft feel. Max ride weight: 340 lbs. Minimum break strength: 2,375 lbs.

I haven't been able to find a solid red, 7/16", two person tow rope. They seem to all be multi-colored now. Maybe I didn't search hard enough, but it seems that it would be an older rope.

Why would you tie the handle into your feet? There was 84 spare inches on her hands, why use the handle? I would like to know how it was oriented and whether it was something a person could use to carry her with. Or perhaps tip her over the railing with.
 
  • #615
It's possible that they are similar since neither material has been described. The angle of the V shape in the braiding on the rope at the scene is much wider than the demonstration rope in the video. I looked again at the rope angle on the railing on the balcony and it does appear to hang straight down like a softer line would.

bbm

True... However, the tiny cropping I posted is the part under the bed, and the "v" in the braiding is a more acute angle than the rest of the rope in the picture. However, it was the best example I had to show that the braiding was the same, rather than wider but fewer strands seen in ski rope. Hope this makes sense...

If you really want to go look at the different types of rope available, here's a decent link I just googled and found:

http://galaxyrope.com/Braid Rope.html

ETA: It may not be the same kind of rope in the photos and in the videos. However, I guess I was trying to say that I think it's very possible, and that I was backing off my earlier stance of saying that it was not the same kind. :)
 
  • #616
We still haven't figured as to what reason she could had to tie her feet to begin with. It's not like she was going to save herself using her feet. Would have been easier to get over the railing if her feet were not bound.
 
  • #617
Just an observation: *IF* her head is supposedly is hanging just 2-3 feet from the balcony, how would a short fall from tumbling herself headfirst over the railing produce such head trauma as mentioned in the autopsy? If she hit her head on the way down, with such a short fall, it seems like she would just receive superficial scrapes.

Just throwing that out there. Doesn't seem likely to me. MOO
 
  • #618
Just an observation: if her head is supposedly is hanging just 2-3 feet from the balcony, how would a short fall from tumbling herself headfirst over the railing produce such head trauma as mentioned in the autopsy? If she hit her head on the way down, with such a short fall, it seems like she would just receive superficial scrapes.

Just throwing that out there. Doesn't seem likely to me. MOO

Her head wouldn't be hanging 2-3 feet from the balcony in a 9 ft drop. The distance of 9 ft is from the top of the railing to the ligature on her neck. If we are assuming the railing is 3 ft high then her head would be hanging more than 5 feet from the balcony.
 
  • #619
Her head wouldn't be hanging 2-3 feet from the balcony in a 9 ft drop. The distance of 9 ft is from the railing to the ligature on her neck.

I agree - I'm trying to understand how others think that such head trauma could be possible, who are interpreting the 9 ft differently.
 
  • #620
I agree - I'm trying to understand how others think that could be possible, who are interpreting the 9 ft differently.

There is no reason to interpret since autopsy report says exactly how it was measured. The distance from the railing to the knot on the neck ligature was 9 ft 2 inches.
 
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