CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #11

[Peaceful]

I think it's possible if she was forced to stand on the bannister/railing top of the wrought iron balcony, facing the courtyard and pushed, her back would arch that quickly and her head may hit the bottom of the balcony on the way down before the rope choked her.

I agree it is a possible explanation for a head injury but the four separate head injuries don't seem so easily explainable to me.

 

[katydid23]

What does that have to do with the statement you replied to?

"If the Z family does not have access to the investigation details, then how would the family be able to back up the claims made by their attorney?"

Umm...here is the first statement in the quote I responded to. And I stated two claims made by the attorney that she would need to back up. Sorry if that was not clear.

 

[SunnieRN]

So are you suggesting that their report is not on the up and up?

Maybe they should just re-open both investigations. It seems as if there are a lot of questions concerning both deaths.

 

[jjenny]

Maybe they should just re-open both investigations. It seems as if there are a lot of questions concerning both deaths.

Both cases are iron clad, don't you know?

 

[SunnieRN]

Both cases are iron clad, don't you know?

:floorlaugh:Thanks, I needed that!

 

[elfie]

I realize the length of her her head and neck has to be subtracted as well, but that's not going to be more than 1 foot. The balcony being 11 ft from the ground doesn't fit the numbers we were given, so where is that number coming from? If the 11 feet number was accurate her feet would be much closer to the ground.

Using this photo:

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rzbalcony.jpg

and calculating the height of the table to be approximately 29" (with a couple inches or less missing from the photo) it looks to be at least 12' from the ground (less if the table is shorter and more if the table is taller).

(I think you make a great point that the distance may not actually have been measured).

 

[jjenny]

Good question. It's bothered several of us. I'm beginning to wonder if the ME put all that info out there so that it would raise questions about whether Max's fall really was an accident.

JMO

I think that's pretty much the opposite of what any ME would want to happen.

 

[MyBelle]

Well whomever is giving JS advice on public perception is doing a piss poor job. Perhaps I'll give him advice because he couldn't look worse. His high powered advisors should all be fired.

I disagree. I think they are doing an their job of protecting his reputation. His attorney is very well-respected. Defamation, lies and innuendo used to influence public perception of a CEO are usually investigated vigorously by both the SEC and FBI.

JMO

 

[Peaceful]

While I fully understand the pain of the Z family it is reckless to have an attorney say things they have not supported with facts. Anne should have known this man would not rollover and take this.

Bremner has interjected JS two other children into this case .....yet has not produced one bit of evidence they were there when Max fell. LE plainly stated that when the EMTs arrived minutes after Max fell no one was there but Rebecca and her sister.

She has also said he was planking.......yet that too has not been backed up with evidence.

So I am not surprised that JS finally has enough of this nightly speculation. Either Ms Bremner has got to back up her claims or she can find herself in a court of law as the defendant.

A lawyer of this caliber doesn't just put out letters like this just to see himself write something. Imo, his office has acquired all copies of interviews that has been done by Bremner. Imo, he means exactly what he said.

He plainly said in his letter that the Z family has every right to question the determination that LE came to..

Now the sister is putting out that Max really wanted to be around Rebecca more than his mother. Is that an appropriate thing to say when a mother has lost her only son?

The police Lt. on the case said that if any new evidence came to light they would be glad to reopen the case.

IMO

Thank you for taking the time to explain this. I must have missed this interview you are referring to because I never heard her say any of this. Do you recall where you found this? I would like to read more. Thank you!

 

[SunnieRN]

I disagree. I think they are doing an their job of protecting his reputation. His attorney is very well-respected. Defamation, lies and innuendo used to influence public perception of a CEO are usually investigated vigorously by both the SEC and FBI.

JMO

Has he tried talking to the Zahou family? Has he explained what he knows or doesn't know? Why he feels the way he feels? Has he told them that he understands their loss?

imho, THAT would take away the need for an attorney and he WOULD be respected and could feel self respect.

I honestly don't see what in the heck is so bad about what is being said. It can easily be proven to be untrue, if it is, without threatening a lawsuit. This case is reminding me more and more every day of the JonBenet Ramsey case.

Momma was right. You can catch more bees with honey then you can with vinegar.

 

[IWannaKnow]

I tend to agree. Rebecca's statement was that Max was told not to ride the Razor scooter in the 2nd floor hallway. If he were riding the scooter and went down the top step and then hit the railing, with the added height of the scooter he may have been propelled up and over with enough force to reach the chandelier and the opposite railing.

In the context of the scooter resting on his shin when he was found, he would have needed to cling to the scooter long enough for it to go over as well in order for it to land on top of him. In that scenario he may have made it to the chandelier, but likely not to the opposite railing.

Did LE think that the scooter was a the bottom of the stairs in the alcove and it tipped on top of him and the end of the fall?

I agree elfie. This is also how I see this happening. Perhaps the scooter is what took the chandelier down and not Max.

Thank you Quester for posting the hinky meter report re: handrail height and MS's ability (or not) to go over that railing.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/09/rebecca-zahau-case-how-maxs-accident-didnt-happen/

She effectively established that the handrail height is 32" or thereabouts. She also established that the step height is about 6 1/2". Perfect. Now, study this picture, which she linked to her report:

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/ms03.jpg

Notice that the handrail on the second floor is the same height as the newel post. That establishes that the railing BEGINS at a height of 32". As the stairs go down, the handrail has to follow, which is why the handrail dips downward at the transition point behind the newel post by 6 1/2" - the height of the step. So immediately after the newel post on the second floor landing the handrail height is only 25.5" (approximately) from the second floor landing. The handrail is 32" on the second floor, 32" at the first stair, but only 25.5" from the second floor floor at the transitional dip you see in the handrail just behind the newel post. This is only a factor if you stand on the second floor and lean over the handrail at that exact point (and yes, it can be done). The Razor scooter would raise him up a few more inches even. I could see the post on the Razor working as a lever and the handrail as the pivot point, with MS's weight causing it to somersault over the railing with him. The scooter only weighs about 7 lbs.

http://www.target.com/p/Razor-Black-Label-Ultra-Pro-Lo-Kick-Scooter/-/A-13539774

So hinky meter established that Max's center of gravity would be at 28". Even without the scooter if he came off the second floor landing at exactly the wrong place, just after the newel post where the railing is only 25.5" in relation to the second floor, and he had any velocity behind him it shouldn't be that hard for him to do what the sheriff's office said. IMO. FWIW, they did talk about this in the briefing and stated that the railing was only 20 some odd inches at that point. I grew up in a house even older than this one and our stairs were similar. I was always conscious of that spot in the railing that wasn't really all that safe. Plus, we have redone the stairwell in our house and the discussion about handrails was eyeopening to me because of all the work we would have to do to work around the stair height. All of this is an attempt to say that the handrail is not 32" all the way down the stairwell. If he was against the railing on the second floor this couldn't have happened, if he were standing flat on the first stair facing the railing it couldn't have happened. He had to come off the second floor landing at an oblique angle to the stairs and gone over at that exact point with some velocity. IMO. Much like the descriptions.

Also if Ocean was what caused him to trip and fall he may have yelled the dog's name as he struck him and just before he went over the railing, and that could have been what Rebecca heard.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

I have been following this case from the beginning because of the bazaar circumstances surrounding it. I have been reading many of the posts since the beginning, and this is my first post.

In my opinion, I don't think that it is odd that RZ went shopping on the way to the airport to drop of the younger sister/ pick up AS. She was having an out of town guest who, considering the circumstances for his arrival, probably wouldn't have the time to go on his own to get essentials like O.J. or milk. On top of that, she was dropping off her younger sister, who is only 13 years old and just experianced a very traumatic event. Maybe she wanted to find something to calm this little girl down. In my experiance, when you have the responsibility for the care of a child, even if she is 13...that child's well being comes ahead of your own needs, even in times of hardship. You put that child's needs ahead of your own emotional needs because that is just the right thing to do. In my open, this does not show that RZ had mental problems....it might show that she had ALOT on her plate at that time, and in my opinion even show her strength in a time of tragedy. Seems to me that between the statements thru the media about her taking food and change of clothes up to the hospital, drop off's and pick ups at the airport, and taking care of boarding the dog, that she was the one that was trying to take care of the little details so that no one else had to worry or focus on anything other than MS. This, to me, shows a strength of character not "mental issues".

:goodpost:

 

[sdcali]

Difficult to believe that an artist would attempt to use paint straight from the tube rather than using at minimum a plate or saucer (we use Styrofoam or plastic plates), or artistically, a palette.

Another mystery. She ties knots like a longshoreman, but in her own particular area of expertise she falls short.

bbm

I brought this up in an earlier thread. If you look at the photo (sheriff's website page) you can see the larger paintbrush has black paint globbed on it.

The odd placement of the paint splotches make no sense, the same with the paint on her body. How did it get on her back? Unless she was laid down on the floor and the paint transferred from the floor to her body?

 

[Peaceful]

I disagree. I think they are doing an their job of protecting his reputation. His attorney is very well-respected. Defamation, lies and innuendo used to influence public perception of a CEO are usually investigated vigorously by both the SEC and FBI.

JMO

I respectfully disagree with you, MyBelle. I am sorry but no one has done a good job of making JS look good or innocent or concerned. I would love to see that side of him but it has not been displayed for whatever reason. IMO

Your note does sound scary though! Better watch your words WS! They (Sitrick) really are watching I am sure.

 

[Drj]

Good point, and if the dog was excited and wedged/scooted between Max (the razor) and the railing... Seemingly, Max could have been sent airborne over the railing...IMO

 

[elfie]

I agree elfie. This is also how I see this happening. Perhaps the scooter is what took the chandelier down and not Max.

Thank you Quester for posting the hinky meter report re: handrail height and MS's ability (or not) to go over that railing.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/09/rebecca-zahau-case-how-maxs-accident-didnt-happen/

She effectively established that the handrail height is 32" or thereabouts. She also established that the step height is about 6 1/2". Perfect. Now, study this picture, which she linked to her report:

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/ms03.jpg

Notice that the handrail on the second floor is the same height as the newel post. That establishes that the railing BEGINS at a height of 32". As the stairs go down, the handrail has to follow, which is why the handrail dips downward at the transition point behind the newel post by 6 1/2" - the height of the step. So immediately after the newel post on the second floor landing the handrail height is only 25.5" (approximately) from the second floor landing. The handrail is 32" on the second floor, 32" at the first stair, but only 25.5" from the second floor floor at the transitional dip you see in the handrail just behind the newel post. This is only a factor if you stand on the second floor and lean over the handrail at that exact point (and yes, it can be done). The Razor scooter would raise him up a few more inches even. I could see the post on the Razor working as a lever and the handrail as the pivot point, with MS's weight causing it to somersault over the railing with him. The scooter only weighs about 7 lbs.

http://www.target.com/p/Razor-Black-Label-Ultra-Pro-Lo-Kick-Scooter/-/A-13539774

So hinky meter established that Max's center of gravity would be at 28". Even without the scooter if he came off the second floor landing at exactly the wrong place, just after the newel post where the railing is only 25.5" in relation to the second floor, and he had any velocity behind him it shouldn't be that hard for him to do what the sheriff's office said. IMO. FWIW, they did talk about this in the briefing and stated that the railing was only 20 some odd inches at that point. I grew up in a house even older than this one and our stairs were similar. I was always conscious of that spot in the railing that wasn't really all that safe. Plus, we have redone the stairwell in our house and the discussion about handrails was eyeopening to me because of all the work we would have to do to work around the stair height. All of this is an attempt to say that the handrail is not 32" all the way down the stairwell. If he was against the railing on the second floor this couldn't have happened, if he were standing flat on the first stair facing the railing it couldn't have happened. He had to come off the second floor landing at an oblique angle to the stairs and gone over at that exact point with some velocity. IMO. Much like the descriptions.

Also if Ocean was what caused him to trip and fall he may have yelled the dog's name as he struck him and just before he went over the railing, and that could have been what Rebecca heard.

Excellent description! I think your evaluation brings this scenario back into play. Instead of clinging to the handlebar, the force against the handlebar could possibly have been enough. Was it Archimedes who said, "Give me a long enough lever (and a fulcrum) & I will lift the world."?

I also have to thank Quester for bringing the Hinky Meter link over and Val for her insightful evaluation (as I should have previously).

 

[SunnieRN]

I agree elfie. This is also how I see this happening. Perhaps the scooter is what took the chandelier down and not Max.

Thank you Quester for posting the hinky meter report re: handrail height and MS's ability (or not) to go over that railing.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/09/rebecca-zahau-case-how-maxs-accident-didnt-happen/

She effectively established that the handrail height is 32" or thereabouts. She also established that the step height is about 6 1/2". Perfect. Now, study this picture, which she linked to her report:

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/ms03.jpg

Notice that the handrail on the second floor is the same height as the newel post. That establishes that the railing BEGINS at a height of 32". As the stairs go down, the handrail has to follow, which is why the handrail dips downward at the transition point behind the newel post by 6 1/2" - the height of the step. So immediately after the newel post on the second floor landing the handrail height is only 25.5" (approximately) from the second floor landing. The handrail is 32" on the second floor, 32" at the first stair, but only 25.5" from the second floor floor at the transitional dip you see in the handrail just behind the newel post. This is only a factor if you stand on the second floor and lean over the handrail at that exact point (and yes, it can be done). The Razor scooter would raise him up a few more inches even. I could see the post on the Razor working as a lever and the handrail as the pivot point, with MS's weight causing it to somersault over the railing with him. The scooter only weighs about 7 lbs.

http://www.target.com/p/Razor-Black-Label-Ultra-Pro-Lo-Kick-Scooter/-/A-13539774

So hinky meter established that Max's center of gravity would be at 28". Even without the scooter if he came off the second floor landing at exactly the wrong place, just after the newel post where the railing is only 25.5" in relation to the second floor, and he had any velocity behind him it shouldn't be that hard for him to do what the sheriff's office said. IMO. FWIW, they did talk about this in the briefing and stated that the railing was only 20 some odd inches at that point. I grew up in a house even older than this one and our stairs were similar. I was always conscious of that spot in the railing that wasn't really all that safe. Plus, we have redone the stairwell in our house and the discussion about handrails was eyeopening to me because of all the work we would have to do to work around the stair height. All of this is an attempt to say that the handrail is not 32" all the way down the stairwell. If he was against the railing on the second floor this couldn't have happened, if he were standing flat on the first stair facing the railing it couldn't have happened. He had to come off the second floor landing at an oblique angle to the stairs and gone over at that exact point with some velocity. IMO. Much like the descriptions.

Also if Ocean was what caused him to trip and fall he may have yelled the dog's name as he struck him and just before he went over the railing, and that could have been what Rebecca heard.

Thank you IwannaKnow, I finally got it!!:seeya: Poor baby, I can't imagine the terror he must have felt! If the dog was involved, I would imagine he was trying to make sure that Ocean was ok.

I can't even read his autopsy all at once. It devastates me.

 

[sdcali]

Gosh I will have to read the autopsy report again......I am missing things I guess.

I thought the ME said he thought she went over at an angular position..not a head dive. That means to me she rested one hip up on the railing and that is why only 11 inches? of dust was disturbed and then swung her legs and feet over and propelled off. If she did not push off far enough then one side on the top of her head could have grazed the scroll work which is not solid but open in areas. We do not know if she twisted from the force when she jumped off or she may have had her head arched way back when she jumped.

Tow ropes are flexible though. They aren't ridgid like a steel rod that has no play in it. The energy amassed and the force of her fall would make the rope swing like a pendulum. A thin rope cannot steady and control a hundred pound body where it will drop straight down and never swing imo. We also don't know if the rope may have been twisted when she repelled off. If so the body would spin until the rope was no longer twisted.


IMO

BBM

I remember LE saying at the PC that they surmised she bent over the railing and dove over (and that was the explanation for the toe prints sliding backwards on the balcony)

I will need to re-read the AR too.

 

[Carpe Pacem]

"The hemorrhages she got were very minor."

Ocean, I thought I read that one of the forensic pathologists stated that they were enough to render her at least temporarily unconscious.

By the way, you are by far the very nicest, most gentle devil's advocate I've ever encountered.

Thanks for that!

 

[sdcali]

I read that it is 27" from the door to the bannister, but LE said 3'. The other measurement came from sleuthers who used her foot prints as a guide for size.

Thanks for that info. I must have missed both of those, Sunnie. I tried to estimate the size of the brick tiles on the balcony (approx. 4" x 8") and add the tiles to come up with a total.