CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #11

[oceanblueeyes]

Not if the gloved hands handled the objects prior to RZ's prints being applied in re: the paint tube, or the gloved hands on different parts of the rope......

I guess anything is possible but probable......it isn't elementry, imo.

None of Rebecca's fingerprints were disturbed. Actually the forensic lab can detect gloves on a soft plastic material like the paint tube. It also leaves an impression and they can also see glove impressions when they dust for fingerprints.

There is absolutely no evidence that anyone else was in the mansion at the time Rebecca killed herself.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Phyllis Ellen Tamm isn't the only woman who was hanged and ruled a suicide by police. Here is another case of woman murdered by strangulation, police ruling it a suicide by hanging (and closing the case), until the perp confessed. A pretty fascinating case by the way. The perp convinced the victim to write some sort of note (and police apparently bought it hook line and sinker) and came in with gloves. So is it really out of the question that someone can wear gloves and not leave fingerprints/ DNA?

""I was like a machine with a program; I went in there and executed the program," Leach, 21, said to Fort Bend County sheriff's detectives."
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Killer-s-Passion-confession-I-was-like-a-1957898.php

It would seem very logical to me if someone else killed Rebecca they would first make her write a suicide note.

IMO

 

[sorrell skye]

I guess anything is possible but probable......it isn't elementry, imo.

None of Rebecca's fingerprints were disturbed. Actually the forensic lab can detect gloves on a soft plastic material like the paint tube. It also leaves an impression.

There is absolutely no evidence that anyone else was in the mansion at the time Rebecca killed herself.

IMO

bbm

And yet, we know there were several other people in the mansion in the hours, days & weeks prior to Max's tragic fall; and in the hours, days & weeks prior to Rebecca's death.

According to the *evidence* presented in the Power Point slide show regarding fingerprints & DNA, it doesn't appear that anyone else was ever in the mansion at all besides RZ.

No one else's fingerprints on the guest room door jamb. No one else's fingerprints on the balcony door. No one else's fingerprints on the leg of the bed in the guest room. No one else's fingerprints (or DNA) on either of the two knives.

Wow - that's one spotlessly clean house! Especially without the aid of any reported housekeepers.

 

[elementry]

I guess anything is possible but probable......it isn't elementry, imo.

None of Rebecca's fingerprints were disturbed. Actually the forensic lab can detect gloves on a soft plastic material like the paint tube. It also leaves an impression and they can also see glove impression when they dust for fingerprints.

There is absolutely no evidence that anyone else was in the mansion at the time Rebecca killed herself.

IMO

To be fair, the public has only seen the merest sliver of the total potential evidence. Now, whether it was ever collected, or collected properly, we'd have no way of knowing. LE says nothing about the master bedroom, little about the shower and bathroom, nothing of the chair and blanket, nothing (except the rankest conjecture) elucidating the head wounds, does not bother explaining (or doesn't do it very well) the various errata in their cherrypicked evidence by which they presented their truncated suicide case. One may choose which side one wants to throw one's support to, but I'd hardly call this case figured out and put to bed, regardless of LE's first stab at it. Surely you would agree that all of the possible evidence ought to be vetted and then draw a conclusion, as opposed to making the conclusion based on an isolated press conference filled with assumptions and then closing the door to further investigation and/or discovery. Let the evidence come out, if we can get through the wall that LE has erected to keep whatever other data they have in an ironclad lockbox. The Zahau's have every right to pursue this imo.

 

[jjenny]

I guess anything is possible but probable......it isn't elementry, imo.

None of Rebecca's fingerprints were disturbed. Actually the forensic lab can detect gloves on a soft plastic material like the paint tube. It also leaves an impression and they can also see glove impressions when they dust for fingerprints.

There is absolutely no evidence that anyone else was in the mansion at the time Rebecca killed herself.

IMO

Apparently there is no evidence anyone was at that room at all, since they supposedly haven't found any fingerprints except RN's. Surely somebody else had been to that room at some point of time prior to RN being there? Where are their fingerprints?

 

[belimom]

From Forbes.com:

...Many observers, including the famous forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht, were not “content” with the speedy suicide analysis in the unprecedented hanging death of a naked young woman whose legs and feet were bound and whose mouth was gagged before she allegedly jumped or fell off a balcony to her death...

.....The Sheriff’s premature closing of the case was an embarrassing public blunder...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenego...ving-face-zahau-case-will-reopen-if-new-lead/

 

[Peaceful]

What I don't get is how the Zahau family can go from praising Jonah in the press, only to bash him now. What happened in between the funeral that I am also sure he paid for, and now? I'd hate to think it's all about money.

And while it is devastating to lose a sister, I imagine it would be far worse to lose a son. Both losses are extremely terrible and tragic, but I don't condone nor understand how one grieving family can attack another that's going through a loss. If I lost a child, I don't know that I could go about having to handle people casting dispersions against my character and my family's character in the press. That's something no grieving parent should have to endure.

Rebecca was both a child and sister to her family. To lose her wouldn't be any less devastating to her family than it was to Max's. Both families are equally devastated as far as I am concerned.

I honestly don't feel that Anne Bremner's statements were defamation to JS. She made the statement:

"It has disillusioned me. I never used to think that there was a different standard of justice for those of wealth."

People cited that she is referring to Jonah specifically influencing the investigation with his wealth and I feel that his wealth certainly did influence the investigation, not necessarily any fault of his. I do not understand why he is choosing to take her statements as personal attacks.

The other stuff she said about the planking and the other children being there could be true but if she does not have (or is not prepared) to provide proof of her statements, she certainly shouldn't have made them.

People's perceptions of they families feelings towards each other are just that, their perceptions. I would like to think this isn't turning into anything other than a focused search for answers.

May we please focus our intelligent brains on sleuthing for answers rather than focusing on perceived negativity? Just my thoughts. I love that I have found this site because I feel that it provides the opportunity to put my thoughts to constructive and possibly productive use. Helping others is something I cherish, as it appears you all do as well.

 

[Peaceful]

To be fair, the public has only seen the merest sliver of the total potential evidence. Now, whether it was ever collected, or collected properly, we'd have no way of knowing. LE says nothing about the master bedroom, little about the shower and bathroom, nothing of the chair and blanket, nothing (except the rankest conjecture) elucidating the head wounds, does not bother explaining (or doesn't do it very well) the various errata in their cherrypicked evidence by which they presented their truncated suicide case. One may choose which side one wants to throw one's support to, but I'd hardly call this case figured out and put to bed, regardless of LE's first stab at it. Surely you would agree that all of the possible evidence ought to be vetted and then draw a conclusion, as opposed to making the conclusion based on an isolated press conference filled with assumptions and then closing the door to further investigation and/or discovery. Let the evidence come out, if we can get through the wall that LE has erected to keep whatever other data they have in an ironclad lockbox. The Zahau's have every right to pursue this imo.

:goodpost: Really, really good post.

 

[TorisMom003]

While out to eat tonight with hubby he asked if there was anything new with Rebecca's case. I told him no but we did talk more about my belief that this was not a suicide. He brought up a very good question. How is it that Rebecca showed signs of being on her back for a period of time (per the livor mortis) but yet her legs were bent and spread apart (per the rigor mortis)? My mind then went to the room and what I saw in it. The chair. The wicker one that was on it's back. If Rebecca were bound to the chair with her legs attached each to one leg of the chair then her legs would be bent and apart. If someone strangled her while standing on the right side (pulling up with the rope on the right side) it would show more signs of damage to her neck on the left side. If Rebecca struggled during this time the chair could fall backwards with her in it. So we have the legs bent and apart from being in the chair and the livor mortis on her back from her laying on the floor in the chair for a significant amount of time.

Of course this would mean that there would be two people involved though. One to kill her in this manner and one to stage the hanging and "clean up" the scene.

 

[SophieRose]

Rebecca was both a child and sister to her family. To lose her wouldn't be any less devastating to her family than it was to Max's. Both families are equally devastated as far as I am concerned.

I honestly don't feel that Anne Bremner's statements were defamation to JS. She made the statement:

"It has disillusioned me. I never used to think that there was a different standard of justice for those of wealth."

People cited that she is referring to Jonah specifically influencing the investigation with his wealth and I feel that his wealth certainly did influence the investigation, not necessarily any fault of his. I do not understand why he is choosing to take her statements as personal attacks.

It is an insult to him, and to wealthy people (I am not one.) Where I think wealthy people get breaks is that they can hire the best lawyers, the best experts, not that I think the law is giving them breaks in not investigating a crime thoroughly. I think after the fact, their wealth can also influence the sentencing.

 

[CDS22]

bbm

And yet, we know there were several other people in the mansion in the hours, days & weeks prior to Max's tragic fall; and in the hours, days & weeks prior to Rebecca's death.

According to the *evidence* presented in the Power Point slide show regarding fingerprints & DNA, it doesn't appear that anyone else was ever in the mansion at all besides RZ.

No one else's fingerprints on the guest room door jamb. No one else's fingerprints on the balcony door. No one else's fingerprints on the leg of the bed in the guest room. No one else's fingerprints (or DNA) on either of the two knives.

Wow - that's one spotlessly clean house! Especially without the aid of any reported housekeepers.

Once, when police were at our home dusting for fingerprints after a break-in, they told us finger prints only survive for so long. That was in response to us asking why our finger prints weren't even found on some key items.

 

[CDS22]

I guess anything is possible but probable......it isn't elementry, imo.

None of Rebecca's fingerprints were disturbed. Actually the forensic lab can detect gloves on a soft plastic material like the paint tube. It also leaves an impression and they can also see glove impressions when they dust for fingerprints.

There is absolutely no evidence that anyone else was in the mansion at the time Rebecca killed herself.

IMO

This is what I keep coming back to when I mull over this case. I'm still undecided as to whether or not this is a suicide, but that is the direction I'm leaning towards as I learn more information from this forum.

 

[stilettos]

Apparently there is no evidence anyone was at that room at all, since they supposedly haven't found any fingerprints except RN's. Surely somebody else had been to that room at some point of time prior to RN being there? Where are their fingerprints?

Miraculously wiped clean of fingerprints even though there is no full time cleaning lady or maid. Hmmm....very perplexing. Also interesting that no one had been on that balcony to leave footprints before the day of the death. (I am not calling this a suicide as it is not proven to be one in my mind)

 

[CDS22]

Rebecca was both a child and sister to her family. To lose her wouldn't be any less devastating to her family than it was to Max's. Both families are equally devastated as far as I am concerned.

Grief professionals say the hardest thing to cope with is the death of a small child. I was relying on their word in my remarks.

I have lost a sister. It was devastating,but it wouldn't compare to the loss of a child.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

bbm

And yet, we know there were several other people in the mansion in the hours, days & weeks prior to Max's tragic fall; and in the hours, days & weeks prior to Rebecca's death.

According to the *evidence* presented in the Power Point slide show regarding fingerprints & DNA, it doesn't appear that anyone else was ever in the mansion at all besides RZ.

No one else's fingerprints on the guest room door jamb. No one else's fingerprints on the balcony door. No one else's fingerprints on the leg of the bed in the guest room. No one else's fingerprints (or DNA) on either of the two knives.

Wow - that's one spotlessly clean house! Especially without the aid of any reported housekeepers.

Who said there wasnt fingerprints in the entire mansion?

I see no reason why LE would be testing for fingerprints in the entire 27 room mansion. I imagine there were plenty of rooms that remained untouched and rarely entered including the one that Rebecca used where she wrote the message. Since it was summer it seems to me if that room had been used the balcony would have been swept clean since it had doors leading out to it.

The police would take fingerprints from the guest bedroom only for that is where they found the rope/paint/message so I am not sure what you mean no one touched the entire mansion.

I doubt that room was used much and I do know that maids do wipe down doors/jambs and even clean walls so if no one had entered it after then but Rebecca why should there be anyone else's fingerprints there?:waitasec:

Just because the maids werent there at the time doesnt mean JS did not having a cleaning crew. They could have come during the day and left in the evening or even just came a couple of times a week to do the deep cleaning.

I mean really what was going to get so messy with just JS, Rebecca and Max there most of the time in a 27 room mansion. If any room was unkept it may have been Max' because of his toys.

I have no idea who was in the home after Max and Rebecca died. I dont even know if Jonah ever returned to the mansion but may have gone on to AZ to plan Max' funeral. Who was there the days and weeks after they both died?

IMO

 

[sorrell skye]

Once, when police were at our home dusting for fingerprints after a break-in, they told us finger prints only survive for so long. That was in response to us asking why our finger prints weren't even found on some key items.

And yet - someone had broken into your house, and of course you lived in your house.

The investigators told you they were unable to find your fingerprints on items your fingerprints should have been found on.

Well then, how much faith are we to have in fingerprint evidence (or the lack thereof), or in an investigator's ability (or inability) to find them?

Based on the above scenario, does the absence of anyone else's fingerprints prove that no one other than RZ had been in or near the guest room the night that she died?

I don't believe it does.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Once, when police were at our home dusting for fingerprints after a break-in, they told us finger prints only survive for so long. That was in response to us asking why our finger prints weren't even found on some key items.

They sure dont last long in our house.:crazy: I am a neat freak and am always wiping down my doors/jambs/light switches etc. and clean my walls at least once every two months.

 

[CDS22]

And yet - someone had broken into your house, and of course you lived in your house.

The investigators told you they were unable to find your fingerprints on items your fingerprints should have been found on.

Well then, how much faith are we to have in fingerprint evidence (or the lack thereof), or in an investigator's ability (or inability) to find them?

Based on the above scenario, does the absence of anyone else's fingerprints prove that no one had been in or near the guest room the night that RZ died?

I don't believe it does.

Fingerprints only show up on things within a certain time period. The items they were dusting for fingerprints hadn't been touched by us for a day or two. That proves to me that Rebecca was the only one on the balcony and in her room because only her prints showed up.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

And yet - someone had broken into your house, and of course you lived in your house.

The investigators told you they were unable to find your fingerprints on items your fingerprints should have been found on.

Well then, how much faith are we to have in fingerprint evidence (or the lack thereof), or in an investigator's ability (or inability) to find them?

Based on the above scenario, does the absence of anyone else's fingerprints prove that no one other than RZ had been in or near the guest room the night that she died?

I don't believe it does.

I think it does. I think it shows this room was not used by anyone in the home and was an extra room among many there. No way someone with this small of a family is going to utilize all 27 rooms, imo. We have 5 bedrooms and I rarely go into the 5th one except to dust and do a deep cleaning.

It may have been used to store some stuff in the bedroom but I don't think it was one they used regularly.

I think the only reason she picked this particular room anyway is because it was the one with the balcony.

 

[CocoChanel]

Grief professionals say the hardest thing to cope with is the death of a small child. I was relying on their word in my remarks.

I have lost a sister. It was devastating,but it wouldn't compare to the loss of a child.

My opinion is that it is not productive to compare degrees of grief, and I question the statement that grief professionals would attempt to do so. If you could provide a link to that I would appreciate it. My belief is that loss and grief are highly individualized and personal. I think the loss of a child is absolutely DIFFERENT than the loss of a sister, but neither can be judged greater or lesser a loss than the other.