Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #7 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[Desdemona]

The dogs should not have followed the scent from Thursday or any other day because that was not the freshest scent. So, when the freshest scent stopped at the end of the driveway, so did the dogs, just as they should have. They would be bad if they lost that trail and then decided to pick up an older one. There was a conclusion reached, and that was that the trail stopped at the end of the driveway which then can be translated into she either was abducted by aliens and beamed up into a spaceship or she got into a vehicle. Most handlers go with option B. A 24 hour old trail is no big deal, especially given the conditions, actually the timing, the conditions, everything was really quite ideal. The court she lives on has lots of areas for scent to trap, again great. The area all the way out to ST actually has plenty of area for the scent to pool on the shoulders as well.

BBM

I have an odd question (which may have already been asked)... What would happen scent-wise if Sierra had walked to the end of the driveway and then turned around and gone back to the house for some reason?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Yes, and NG's questions to her about what Sierra is like were framed in the present tense. Mom responded at length, repeatedly and consistently referring to Sierra in the past tense. Could mean nothing, but it really caught my attention, too.

Thank you very much for confirming that I didn't pull my impressions out of thin air.

 

[GrainneDhu]

True, in both of those cases and Danielle Van Dam, at least one parent was in the house ( and awake in the Van Dam case) when the girl was abducted!

Not to mention the Riley Fox case, where the perp broke in through the back door, walked through the living room where her father and brother were asleep, got Riley out of her bed and carried her through the living room and out the back door.

I think predators and normal people evaluate risks differently. What seems to a normal person an unbearably dangerous risk (like walking through the room that has an adult and a child asleep in it) just seems like a bit of a problem to solve to a predator.

Plus, most people just aren't that observant. My husband's son left the house when he was 2.5 years old while the two of them were supposed to be napping. He went three blocks wearing just a pull up diaper and was found in someone's backyard in their kiddie pool. He crossed two busy streets to get there.

Not one single person noticed seeing a toddler wearing only a diaper in broad daylight!

You'd think that would stand out to most people but I think the truth is that most people are so busy thinking about what they're doing or what they're supposed to do next, etc, that although they may see something they don't really process it with the thinking part of their brain.

I believe that predators see this normal level of distraction, understand it and use it in ways that most normal people simply do not.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Every individuals reactions can be different. We are all unique and can't expect others to react in the same way that we do. I have been in a traumatic situations before and I was litterally running on adrenaline. I showed no emotion because I was in shock. Later is when I fell apart, when it was all over with. Now, none of my situations lasted for weeks before there was a conclusion. I know for a fact, I wouldn't be able to get my words out right because my mind would be spinning in chaios. I would be on one mission to find my little girl. I imagine the public would have a field day with me if something like this happened.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Yes, she did drive up to her house and waited a couple of minutes and then left assuming Sierra was home sick or not going to school for some other reason.

That is nice she went by the house,around here they don't do that,if your not at the bus stop oh well.

 

[Thirteen]

@GrainneDhu

Can you discuss the Sheriffs comments? Post #93. Also a scent trail can actually go straight up into the air and vanish on a hot day. I didn't see you mention that. However I do not believe that was the case on the days in question as the Sheriff clearly states wind and rain.

GRACE: It`s my understanding that dogs picked up her scent to the bottom of the driveway, is that correct, Sheriff Smith?

SMITH: They did pick up her scent going out of her house. I`m not sure how far the scent had gone. And there`d been a lot of rain and wind that day.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thank you for the welcome!

I just wanted to comment on a couple things. When I was at the search for Sierra, I heard that Sierra never folds or packs her clothes neatly. I know that the NG show caused some confusion with the transcript being different from what Marlene actually said. I also heard that the bus driver waited at the bus stop for Sierra and when she didn't show up, the driver went by her house to see if she was just late coming out.

I spoke to Marlene and she did use the past tense when speaking of Sierra, but she would also talk about when Sierra comes home. It seemed to me that she didn't even realize she was using the past tense. I feel bad for Marlene. I can't even image not knowing what has happened to her daughter or where she is for over three weeks. I am amazed she is able to cope at all.

BBM

Elphie, welcome to WS!

The part I bolded says to me that Sierra must have been a *very* regular bus rider or the driver would not have bothered swinging by her house. If Sierra was skipping the bus frequently, the bus driver would have just shrugged and driven on.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

That is nice she went by the house,around here they don't do that,if your not at the bus stop oh well.

This would indicate to me that it would be very rare for Sierra not to be at the bus stop. JMO

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Every individuals reactions can be different. We are all unique and can't expect others to react in the same way that we do. I have been in a traumatic situations before and I was litterally running on adrenaline. I showed no emotion because I was in shock. Later is when I fell apart, when it was all over with. Now, none of my situations lasted for weeks before there was a conclusion. I know for a fact, I wouldn't be able to get my words out right because my mind would be spinning in chaios. I would be on one mission to find my little girl. I imagine the public would have a field day with me if something like this happened.

I know what you mean and I really didn't pay too much attention to her past tense wording.This lady is in shock,confused,distraught,and probably under medication.Her world just got shaken up and thrown around.All of a sudden she becomes a victim of a possible crime.She realizes she needs to keep going to keep up with the pace of the investigation,media, and searches.I feel so bad for Marlene.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I know what you mean and I really didn't pay too much attention to her past tense wording.This lady is in shock,confused,distraught,and probably under medication.Her world just got shaken up and thrown around.All of a sudden she becomes a victim of a possible crime.She realizes she needs to keep going to keep up with the pace of the investigation,media, and searches.I feel so bad for Marlene.

I haven't followed any cases where the parents ended up being involved in the crime. From my own experiences I would probably not be a good judge of character and be very sympathetic for the parents. I may be blinded.

I really don't think that the family had anything to do with this though and she just wants to stay focused on finding Sierra. I also wonder if LE and MK and the other families that have experieced what she is going through have given her some direction on how to handle the media so it doesn't go off focus.

 

[GrainneDhu]

wish that reporter would go on record as to WHAT made her smile THAT hard...

I also wish we knew more about Marlene before this happened.

For instance, is she a nervous smiler or nervous laugher?

We do know she's an occupational therapist. Having had a lot of occupational therapy after I became disabled, I know all of my OTs were very cheerful, very upbeat. It's part of their job, really, because they're encouraging people to do stuff that is suddenly difficult and even scary. An OT who is a Debbie Downer would not get results, strictly in my humble opinion.

So is Marlene relying on a professional skill to keep her from just falling apart in public?

So many questions and so little data.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM

I have an odd question (which may have already been asked)... What would happen scent-wise if Sierra had walked to the end of the driveway and then turned around and gone back to the house for some reason?

Oriah or sarx would do better answering this but here I am.

The type of dog used initially would in that case track Sierra out of the house, down to the end of the driveway, then turn around and go back to the house.

It's not unusual for people to backtrack for some reason; since it is a natural behaviour, handlers train for it.

Handlers teach their dogs to follow the scent one way: oldest to newest on the particular track they are following. Most dogs tend to want to do this anyway, so it's usually not a big deal to teach.

Sometimes inexperienced handlers accidentally teach their dogs to disregard the direction of the track or to ignore backtracks. My assumption is that a handler/dog team used to search for a missing teen by LE would be sufficiently experienced and would be able to prove via training records that this mistake has not been made.

 

[GrainneDhu]

@GrainneDhu

Can you discuss the Sheriffs comments? Post #93. Also a scent trail can actually go straight up into the air and vanish on a hot day. I didn't see you mention that. However I do not believe that was the case on the days in question as the Sheriff clearly states wind and rain.

I've experienced the scent going up in the air while foxhunting. The hounds were going "huh?" and a lot of us riders were sniffing and pointing.

If it had been hot the day Sierra or if there had been moist ground with a mist rising up out of it, I'd expect some of the scent to rise up and disappear. I'd also expect that some of the scent would get stuck to the multiple areas of foliage and obstacles along the 0.4 miles to the bus stop.

I've never seen it disappear completely for an entire half mile but anything is possible even if highly improbable.

As for the sheriff's comments on Nancy Grace, my personal opinion is that the sheriff was being cagey with NG. No matter what someone's opinion of NG as a person, I think everyone can agree that she is highly tenacious and will jump on a tiny detail repeatedly to try to get more information.

I think that sheriff was more forthcoming and less on guard in the earlier press conferences.

 

[liz b.]

About the 1980's white Dodge vehicle : the two men who were seen in a vehicle with Christina Marie Williams after she had been abducted were said to be driving a light colored vehicle with grey primer spots. The make was never pinned down, could have been a Mercury Monarch,or could have been a Ford Granada. It was described as a 1980's model. The sketch of that car looked so much like the stock photo of the car in question in this case.... MOO

 

[cluciano63]

About the 1980's white Dodge vehicle : the two men who were seen in a vehicle with Christina Marie Williams after she had been abducted were said to be driving a light colored vehicle with grey primer spots. The make was never pinned down, could have been a Mercury Monarch,or could have been a Ford Granada. It was described as a 1980's model. The sketch of that car looked so much like the stock photo of the car in question in this case.... MOO

I know it is a long shot...but Christine even looked a lot like Sierra...and there is always the possibility that someone has been in prison for the last 10-12 years and is just resurfacing...you really never know. I just hope that in Sierra's case, someday we do know...

Also where Christine was found was within 3 miles of her home and yet not found for 7 months...and searchers had been there before. So either she was moved, or they missed her the first time.

 

[BeeBeeOh]

(I appreciate you long-timers, and the cliff-note similarity stories...)

 

[Plumeria5]

About the 1980's white Dodge vehicle : the two men who were seen in a vehicle with Christina Marie Williams after she had been abducted were said to be driving a light colored vehicle with grey primer spots. The make was never pinned down, could have been a Mercury Monarch,or could have been a Ford Granada. It was described as a 1980's model. The sketch of that car looked so much like the stock photo of the car in question in this case.... MOO

Morgan Hill is only an hour away from Seaside where Christina Williams lived.

 

[katydid23]

That is very interesting about the bus driver coming to her home and waiting. That clears away a couple of other possible scenarios. Now we know she didn't walk to the stop and miss the bus. And she didn't walk along and get taken ON FOOT by someone holding a knife or gun on her. The driver would have seen her walking in that case. And she didn't stay home in the morning with a guest there or the driver would have noticed a car.

The bus driver narrowed down the window to what we thought all along---she got nabbed right when she left her home.

I am curious about the neighbors yard though.

 

[cluciano63]

Also the bus driver coming to look for her shows it was probably unusual for her not to be there, so she probably did not take rides to school on any kind of a regular basis.

 

[BeeBeeOh]

would she walk out into her driveway on a dark morning (Is it dark at 7:11am 1st week of March?)

if there was an unusual car blocking her driveway?