CA CA - Skip, 55, & Joni Tillman, 51, La Canada, 7 Feb 2000

[charminglane]

I am from the area and had never heard of this case.
Wow.
Blessings and good luck, Tami!

 

[fred&edna]

I hope this "new" detective is continuing to communicate with tamijt4. (I actually missed that post for several days!)

One thing that puzzles me... why the friend/attorney was not the executor of the Tillman estate? Why was it Jackie?? How did they know Jackie?? And, if I have the correct person... Jackie's spouse is/was a LE detective in a CA county not too far away... I suppose he couldn't assist with this case, tho??

I don't know whether to keep digging, wait for additional info from tamijt4, or ??

I guess for now I'm in a holding pattern.

 

[Dewclaw]

Hello all
I am just now reading about this case. There have been some excellent posts above with great info. I am hoping to ask a few questions about potential leads.

1. I read that Mr Tillman was from Tacoma and Seattle. Is there any more info on where he lived, went to school, and who his friends might have been?

2. How did Mr Tillman find his clients?

3. I have also read that Glen Rothstein represented David Hayes in the lawsuit against Mr Tillman. Does anyone have an accurate resume for Rothstein? Or his fellow UCLA alumni and coworker at Greenberg Glusker, Ricardo Cestero, who also worked for Pellicano? Or another partner, Bert Fields? Or the private detective commonly associated with Fields, Anthony Pellicano?

Something to think about?

Could Hayes have understood that even if he won the lawsuit he wasn't going to receive his money back? Could he have opted instead to seek revenge?

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2006/04/13/pellicano-update-a-sigh-of-relief-at-greenberg-glusker/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/allison-hope-weiner/pellicano-trial-greenberg_b_98101.html

 

[fred&edna]

Hello all
I am just now reading about this case. There have been some excellent posts above with great info. I am hoping to ask a few questions about potential leads.

1. I read that Mr Tillman was from Tacoma and Seattle. Is there any more info on where he lived, went to school, and who his friends might have been?

2. How did Mr Tillman find his clients?

3. I have also read that Glen Rothstein represented David Hayes in the lawsuit against Mr Tillman. Does anyone have an accurate resume for Rothstein? Or his fellow UCLA alumni and coworker at Greenberg Glusker, Ricardo Cestero, who also worked for Pellicano? Or another partner, Bert Fields? Or the private detective commonly associated with Fields, Anthony Pellicano?

Something to think about?

Could Hayes have understood that even if he won the lawsuit he wasn't going to receive his money back? Could he have opted instead to seek revenge?

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2006/04/13/pellicano-update-a-sigh-of-relief-at-greenberg-glusker/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/allison-hope-weiner/pellicano-trial-greenberg_b_98101.html

Great questions and input! Well, well, well... Pellicano and Fields! Nice catch. And, that's interesting stuff!

 

[fred&edna]

OT

Last night, while searching for additional info about APellicano (and his pal former LAPD detective/Sgt Arneson), I came across a "victim's" blog and immediately recognized the writer's name (and photo) as I'd seen her (C Shuman) mentioned somewhere on Websleuths. It took me a few minutes to recall the particulars, but I finally realized it was within the (very bizarre) Jeffrey A Lash thread.

 

[Dewclaw]

OT

Last night, while searching for additional info about APellicano (and his pal former LAPD detective/Sgt Arneson), I came across a "victim's" blog and immediately recognized the writer's name (and photo) as I'd seen her (C Shuman) mentioned somewhere on Websleuths. It took me a few minutes to recall the particulars, but I finally realized it was within the (very bizarre) Jeffrey A Lash thread.

The attorney Lash's fiancée called after he died, was Harland Braun. The same attorney that represented Phillip Arthur Thompson in Orange County in 1980. As well as representing Bert Fields in other matters.

 

[tamijt4]

The other case here was solved. Sadly the couples' neighbor had murdered them and buried them in his backyard.

 

[tamijt4]

Of course that was the only email so far. I think telling them of this site and asking about other leads you all have enlightened me to, inspired them to say anything. Hopefully they really are looking at it

 

[tamijt4]

Not to my knowledge.

 

[StarrChance]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=74132&stc=1&d=1430437014

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/damian-newhart_300x200.jpg

Any resemblance?

 

[Tulessa]

LOL found it. Edited.

 

[Tulessa]

Well that's never happened. I just posted and went back to edit, but I can't find it. Going to my profile, and clicking on my last post says it's here.

 

[musicaljoke]

Car was parked less than three miles from the Van Nuys airport, which only has private planes, no airlines. Three miles would be a long way to walk so doesn't seem like perp/s were making it look like the couple left by plane.

Maybe the perps left by plane.

 

[fred&edna]

Maybe the perps left by plane.

Would the perp/s walk nearly 3 miles to the airport? I wonder if LE checked to see if a taxi was called to that area of Van Nuys during that time period?

Also of note, there's this report: "A missing La Canada Flintridge couple whose bodies were found in February at a county dump near Yucaipa had been strangled, authorities said Friday."

While I'm sure the county dump is/was a large area, it still seems a more specific location than other reports that said (IIRC) "a remote wash in Yucaipa".

AND... in a 2008 report, "Further investigation of the area led to a suspicious arrangement of tumbleweeds that marked the graves. "A lot of times with body dumps, they never do it deep enough and coyotes will get to them, but these were deep enough that barring a major flood, we wouldn’t have got to them,” Ells said. “It was incredibly fortunate to find the bodies.” Ells said that the case was a tricky one for San Bernardino Sheriff’s detectives to handle because of the tenuous connection between where the Tillmans lived and where they were buried. “The thing that’s difficult about that case, there’s really no nexus to our county,” he said. “The victims weren’t from here, and I don’t think the perpetrators were from here.”"

I've been of the opinion the murders were a "hired hit", but now I'm wondering:

1) Why would the killer/s take the time to pre-dig (deep) graves and actually bury their victims... particularly within a county dump??

2) Why does the detective think the perps are from somewhere other than Yucaipa??

3) Would there have been some sort of a county employee who regularly checked/maintained the dump?


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MAN,+WIFE+WERE+STRANGLED,+CORONER'S+OFFICE+CONCLUDES.-a083405426

http://articles.lacanadaonline.com/...-division-joni-tillman-homicide-investigators

 

[Dewclaw]

Would the perp/s walk nearly 3 miles to the airport? I wonder if LE checked to see if a taxi was called to that area of Van Nuys during that time period?

AND... in a 2008 report, "Further investigation of the area led to a suspicious arrangement of tumbleweeds that marked the graves. "A lot of times with body dumps, they never do it deep enough and coyotes will get to them, but these were deep enough that barring a major flood, we wouldn’t have got to them,” Ells said. “It was incredibly fortunate to find the bodies.” Ells said that the case was a tricky one for San Bernardino Sheriff’s detectives to handle because of the tenuous connection between where the Tillmans lived and where they were buried. “The thing that’s difficult about that case, there’s really no nexus to our county,” he said. “The victims weren’t from here, and I don’t think the perpetrators were from here.”"

I've been of the opinion the murders were a "hired hit", but now I'm wondering:

1) Why would the killer/s take the time to pre-dig (deep) graves and actually bury their victims... particularly within a county dump??
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If the intent was that the bodies were never found, would that show some significance towards how their estate would have been handled? Wouldn't it be different if authorities thought that the couple had left of their own free will instead of being murdered?

 

[liz b.]

Would the perp/s walk nearly 3 miles to the airport? I wonder if LE checked to see if a taxi was called to that area of Van Nuys during that time period?

Also of note, there's this report: "A missing La Canada Flintridge couple whose bodies were found in February at a county dump near Yucaipa had been strangled, authorities said Friday."

While I'm sure the county dump is/was a large area, it still seems a more specific location than other reports that said (IIRC) "a remote wash in Yucaipa".

AND... in a 2008 report, "Further investigation of the area led to a suspicious arrangement of tumbleweeds that marked the graves. "A lot of times with body dumps, they never do it deep enough and coyotes will get to them, but these were deep enough that barring a major flood, we wouldn’t have got to them,” Ells said. “It was incredibly fortunate to find the bodies.” Ells said that the case was a tricky one for San Bernardino Sheriff’s detectives to handle because of the tenuous connection between where the Tillmans lived and where they were buried. “The thing that’s difficult about that case, there’s really no nexus to our county,” he said. “The victims weren’t from here, and I don’t think the perpetrators were from here.”"

I've been of the opinion the murders were a "hired hit", but now I'm wondering:

1) Why would the killer/s take the time to pre-dig (deep) graves and actually bury their victims... particularly within a county dump??

2) Why does the detective think the perps are from somewhere other than Yucaipa??

3) Would there have been some sort of a county employee who regularly checked/maintained the dump?


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MAN,+WIFE+WERE+STRANGLED,+CORONER'S+OFFICE+CONCLUDES.-a083405426

http://articles.lacanadaonline.com/...-division-joni-tillman-homicide-investigators

With regard to question 1 : Using the county dump as a burial site gave the killer(s) a plausible reason to be in the area if they were stopped while driving to or from the area. The McStay family was also buried very close to a county dump site.

 

[liz b.]

What if this was a previously planned home invasion/robbery. By someone who had done work in the house the Tilmans had moved into ? Someone who either falsely or correctly believed there was a stash of $$$ in the house. Someone who needed some fast cash. And the other facets of the case are just background noise ?

 

[fred&edna]

If the intent was that the bodies were never found, would that show some significance towards how their estate would have been handled? Wouldn't it be different if authorities thought that the couple had left of their own free will instead of being murdered?

I think you're correct... belief that M/M Tillman vanished (of their own doing) would have had an effect on the lawsuits and their estate.

It would be helpful to know more about the Tillman's estate. Heck, I'm still confused as to why there was a switch of executor. While I know the Tillman's will has been discussed, I can't remember if tamijt4 has a copy.

 

[fred&edna]

With regard to question 1 : Using the county dump as a burial site gave the killer(s) a plausible reason to be in the area if they were stopped while driving to or from the area. The McStay family was also buried very close to a county dump site.

Yes, good point... a county dump would certainly be a "less suspicious" location.

I didn't realize the McStays were buried near a county dump.... hmmmm... interesting. Do you think you (or anyone) might be able to find any kind of link between these families?? It might be worth a look-see

 

[fred&edna]

Does anyone know if it's possible to:

Obtain info on ALL of the lawsuits filed against the Tillman's?

Obtain a copy of the Tillman's will?

If any of this is possible, would it have to be obtained by a family member or could any ol' Fred or Edna request it??