CA CA - Skip, 55, & Joni Tillman, 51, La Canada, 7 Feb 2000

[tamijt4]

According to bizweb it was owned by a guy named Sal Mondello.

wondering if this name matches up to the recent find of another websleuther.......with regard to a law firm and a possible connection.

 

[tamijt4]

Tamijt4,

I'm sorry you have had so much trouble obtaining details from LE. I'm not sure how much help we can be, but obviously, we will do some digging/research

I am curious about a few things...

One of the news reports states that the Tillman's had lived for more than 10 years in Glendale and had only recently (3-4 months) moved to the Bramblewood Dr home. Was there a specific reason for this move?

I noticed that, over many years, Skip was listed as "registered agent" for several companies (i.e. Samala Corp, Nickel Ltd, and Cyber Coterie seems to be the most recent with a date of Dec 1998). I wonder if LE investigated other business deals he might have had... no lawsuits involved, but maybe a disgruntled partner or client ?

And, I read that Stephen Hansen and Lenny Feldsott worked on a documentary-type film regarding this case... was there a final product?? Especially interesting since these two actually worked with detectives on the case.

"... but this week Hansen will be interviewing the new detectives investigating the case. "At first the detectives told us the case was too sensitive," Hansen said. But it is the difficulty of the case that the producers and metaphysical investigators find so intriguing. The documentary plans to give metaphysical investigators access to several areas available to traditional detectives. The film crew will also interview the law enforcement side of the case and then compare the two stories, discovering if the metaphysical side came up with the same conclusion of the traditional. It’s hoped the work will shed more light on the baffling case."

http://articles.lacanadaonline.com/...b2a6733860088_1_psychic-tillman-case-bodies/2

I found this and had intended to try to reach them. The first contact I actually had with regard to this case was from a psychic show that was actually produced and aired. Someone was trying to find me the link again. Jackie Barrett (lots of jackies popping up in this case) was one of the psychics. I had watched the show and attempted reach out to her. At the time I was unaware of her "fame" and thought she was just an ameteur or idk. Anyway she did contact me and we talked for a few hours one night. Some about the evidence she was privy to, some about her "intuition" about my dad and I, like I said she was the first person to actually talk to me like I mattered in my dad's life at all and told me I was a suspect as well.

 

[tamijt4]

I wonder if the blood came from the neck wound.

unsure if it was a wound or the dog. I am unaware if they were transported to the gravesite alive or dead. Not sure if anyone knows this. however there was only 1 sample of DNA, I am told that was held onto for years and only recently tested due to the amount available. It was not from my dad or joni was all we were told. The scariest part was my dad's size, to have strangled him could have been no easy task. He is larger than my husband whom I can't put my hands around his neck at all. Realizing that my dad had aged, he still, I don't think, couldn't have been subdued by less than two people or a very large person.

 

[tamijt4]

I think that's a safe bet, and might be part of the reason LE indicated to tamijt that they believe Skip was forced to watch as Joni was killed (strangled). So cruel, and so personal. IMO, someone held a huge grudge against one or both of them. I think Fred&Edna is onto something with the suggestion of a past business associate, or a rival, perhaps. But surely LE would have investigated from that angle. Have they hit a dead end?

They seem to have. Unsure why they won't let anyone else look at this. The last detective (2 detectives ago) seemed to be gung ho about utilizing AMW or some other outsource. Since then they have turned down an offer for a psychic to look at this. I am unsure if they ever responded to Trish from this page. and most recently replying to me with the same email they sent me two months ago says something and it isn't positive. I wish I could go out there, won't ever be able to afford it though.

 

[tamijt4]

Pure speculation here: But -- as bessie noted earlier, and I so much agree, "shades of the Mcstay case" -- perhaps there was evidence Skip might have been bound or restrained in some way? (In the McStay case, info "leaked" soon after the family's remains were found that "at least one of the adults" was bound with electrical cord or wire. There has been speculation -- only -- that it was Joey who was bound and that that might mean he was alive and witnessing as his family was killed.)

I don't know if piano wire was something I just pictured in the many sleepless nights after I was made aware of the murder or if someone said it. I couldn't help standing in front of the TV and bawling my eyes out when I saw the McStay case too. They never acknowledged that I even mentioned it. There was another case out of Prescott AZ at the time. I swear I spent 3 years watching crime TV at one point. The kid in Prescott had gone posed as a buyer for a yacht/boat and killed the couple and dumped their bodies at sea. I will have to find that one as well as it had me thinking as well. I am still trying to catch up as I was to understand that my dad "never left CA for anything" (per his mother) so all the travels and land deals are still a surprise.

 

[tamijt4]

i will post those names on the facebook page and see if anyone knows those business. I am definitely over worrying about upsetting or offending anyone. I was unaware that they had even moved. When I was calling my dad I believed he was still at Lawson Place. I think now that they did own it, but when I was visiting there I thought it was being rented (I was 10 so perceptions of things were a lot different at that time). I can't help but focus on the comment still from the psychic Jackie that Joni was receiving nightly calls from someone that were upsetting. none of their friends seem to know anything about the calls.

 

[fred&edna]

I don't think either of these things have anything to do with the death of the Tillmans, but thought I'd mention them anyway.

I found an old (1970's) La Canada Flintridge address for Skip Tillman. So, it would seem ST moved from La Canada Flintridge to Glendale and then back to La Canada.

Also, I noticed that the Tillman's attorney found himself in a bit of trouble... law license suspended for 2 years. This occurred several years after the murders.

 

[tamijt4]

I think you're correct... belief that M/M Tillman vanished (of their own doing) would have had an effect on the lawsuits and their estate.

It would be helpful to know more about the Tillman's estate. Heck, I'm still confused as to why there was a switch of executor. While I know the Tillman's will has been discussed, I can't remember if tamijt4 has a copy.

I had had twins in 2006 and my last in 2007. About that time I threw away most of my obsessive notes (3 ring binders of them) out of sheer frustration. So I have to dig deep for memories here, but do remember I was not informed of the murders until long after they had been buried. Jackie was in charge of the estate, I was told Kaye declined the request from the will to be the executor. My first conversation with Jackie was condescending, she was extremely rude and told me "you are not welcome in CA and you will never get near anything of your dad's or his estate". I was then contacted and asked to sign the request for Karol to handle the estate which I did. I am told Jackie may have their belonging like purses and wallets and she used the estate to pay for their funeral and there is specualtion that she may have stolen from the estate. She was then going to turn it over to the state. unsure exactly what that means.

 

[tamijt4]

I also found Joan's father Ray associated with that address. He died in 1997. Maybe he lived with them after his wife died in 1995.

House shows last sold late Sep 1999, but have no idea who the owner/sellers were.

that was the last place I visited them at. I thought they still lived there. The last summer I went and my sister was not allowed to go she was to go the following year, it was 1979 (wow i just realized i am old). It seems a few people came and went as guests from there after that. That summer I met many of his clients and have a few photos but not many. No one has answered me about the companies or if they know the people. I am still curious that no one seems to know the dentist. I am still not giving up the thought that there is more to their relationship......i think he resembles my dad and I can't shake the feeling there is more to the story. Especially if their close group of friends doesn't know him. I recall going on a dinner date with my dad before he married Joni. It was odd because the woman had 2 kids which was not like my father, he dated single women usually. then, he was with Joni, only visiting in the summer made it hard to remember faces and people but there were a lot. he was always working.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

How long has it lasted. That those around at the time thought you had something to do with or thought you knew whom done it? And are there still some to this day that questions your possible involvement?..That was Jackie's thinking at the time yes?

 

[liz b.]

How long has it lasted. That those around at the time thought you had something to do with or thought you knew whom done it? And are there still some to this day that questions your possible involvement?..That was Jackie's thinking at the time yes?

I was just about to post something similar. Why were you considered a suspect ? TIA

 

[Niner]

Hi, just finished reading this thread, and made a Timeline for it.

Tillman Timeline as of September 29, 2015

February 6, 2000, Sunday were reported missing by a friend who last saw them in Pasadena on Feb. 6th, according to Sgt. Mike Lenihan of the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Dept. From http://articles.latimes.com/2000/feb/19/local/me-430 “The Tillmans returned home from dinner with friends Sunday, Feb. 6, shortly after 9 p.m. Joan Tillman put her husband's clothes in the wash, and she changed in to a robe. She was still wearing the robe when her body was discovered, and detectives found her husband's dinner clothes in the dryer, said Karol Eller, a friend from Simi Valley. Detectives also found the sliding glass door unlocked, something the organized Joan Tillman would not allow, Duerrstein said.”

February 7, 2000, Monday Tillmans’ appointments are missed and calls go unanswered. A man walking his dogs along a wash in the remote area Feb. 7 discovered a dead dog. He called the number on the dog's collar and, after learning Teddy belonged to the Tillmans, who had not been home in days, he alerted deputies at the Yucaipa sheriff's station. Homicide detectives found the makeshift grave near the dead dog and exhumed the bodies. Bodies found in a wash in one shallow grave at Fifth Street and Oak Glen Blvd in Yucaipa on Feb. 9th. Per tamijt4, daughter of Skip, only the collar was found per post #24. See post for further info.

February 8, 2000, Tuesday Friends are worried and call police. A deputy went to the scene Tuesday but found no sign of foul play and nothing apparently missing. Newspapers were in the driveway, their Jaguar was in the garage, and their 2000 Dodge Durango and dog were gone. Eller said he assumed they had gone on a trip. From LATimes article above on Feb. 6th.

February 9, 2000, Wednesday “Authorities identified two bodies found near Yucaipa on Feb. 9 as Harold ``Skip'' Tillman (an Accountant), 55, and his wife, Joan “Joni”, (homemaker), 51, both of La Canada Flintridge on Bramblewood Road, a spokesman said. The Tillmans recently had moved to the neighborhood from Glendale (October, 1999), where they had lived for 12 to 15 years. From link on Feb. 6th.
Also “The following day, Eller and one of the Tillmans' Sunday night dinner companions decided to go into the house. As the deputy had said, the house looked undisturbed. But Eller noticed the bed covers had been turned down as if the couple had been preparing to go to bed. Sliding door unlocked. Eller listened to their phone messages and heard the call from the man who had found the dog (actually dog collar?). Eller called him and explained the situation.” Also found in the grave a sheet matching the Tillmans’ bed sheet, also green paper towels and a green hand towel that matched items in the home. Investigators at the crime scene near the dog’s body found blood in the roadway and than located the graves. Cause of death is strangulation. Skip was possible stabbed in neck.

February 11, 2000, Friday On Feb. 11, the Tillmans' new silver Dodge Durango was found in Van Nuys, parked near Community Street and Haskell Avenue. “We would like to talk to anyone who saw this vehicle between Sunday night, Feb. 6, and the time it was found on Friday, Feb. 11,'' Lenihan said. (Link for Feb. 6 thru Feb. 11 notations: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/NEIGHBORS+STUNNED+BY+KILLINGS.-a083421496)

March 10, 2000 Half-brother of Joan Tillman cleared in slayings. “They mysterious killings probably were not the result of a random home invasion. Investigators have lifted fingerprints from the Tillmans’ Dodge Durango, which was found abandoned in Van Nuys. But that hasn’t given police any leads so far.” From http://articles.glendalenewspress.c...50011_1_investigators-detectives-half-brother

September, 2008 A cold case squad is reinvestigated cold case from 2000. The only lead is from a caller that saw two men in the wash a few days before bodies were discovered. White male, late 30s, early 30s, long brown or black hair wearing a baseball cap. No description on second man. Driving a green Ford Bronco. Link: http://abc7.com/archive/6398238/

August, 2015 – New detective/investigator on the case, per tamijt post #134.


tamijt - if you "see" something wrong on this Timeline, please post the correct information and I shall change it.

 

[wastrel]

I get the feeling the trouble followed Joni and not Skip. 329 Lawson was the address for a lot a possibly shady businesses and a check reveals that H and R ( Ray?) Elliot ( Joni's maiden name ) owned that property. Click on the 'next' button below 19 residents in this url.

http://www.spokeo.com/CA/Glendale/329-Lawson-Pl#resident_info_panel_5

Was H*** Elliot the mother who "was supposed to die first"? according to Joni's 1/2 brother?

 

[fred&edna]

I get the feeling the trouble followed Joni and not Skip. 329 Lawson was the address for a lot a possibly shady businesses and a check reveals that H and R ( Ray?) Elliot ( Joni's maiden name ) owned that property. Click on the 'next' button below 19 residents in this url.

http://www.spokeo.com/CA/Glendale/329-Lawson-Pl#resident_info_panel_5

Was H*** Elliot the mother who "was supposed to die first"? according to Joni's 1/2 brother?

According to the link in your post, H**** Elliott is "male".

I don't know if this is a typo, or ??

Maybe the trouble did somehow follow Joni. Having additional information about the family would be helpful.

 

[tamijt4]

Hi, just finished reading this thread, and made a Timeline for it.

Tillman Timeline as of September 29, 2015

February 6, 2000, Sunday were reported missing by a friend who last saw them in Pasadena on Feb. 6th, according to Sgt. Mike Lenihan of the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Dept. From http://articles.latimes.com/2000/feb/19/local/me-430 “The Tillmans returned home from dinner with friends Sunday, Feb. 6, shortly after 9 p.m. Joan Tillman put her husband's clothes in the wash, and she changed in to a robe. She was still wearing the robe when her body was discovered, and detectives found her husband's dinner clothes in the dryer, said Karol Eller, a friend from Simi Valley. Detectives also found the sliding glass door unlocked, something the organized Joan Tillman would not allow, Duerrstein said.”

February 7, 2000, Monday Tillmans’ appointments are missed and calls go unanswered. A man walking his dogs along a wash in the remote area Feb. 7 discovered a dead dog. He called the number on the dog's collar and, after learning Teddy belonged to the Tillmans, who had not been home in days, he alerted deputies at the Yucaipa sheriff's station. Homicide detectives found the makeshift grave near the dead dog and exhumed the bodies. Bodies found in a wash in one shallow grave at Fifth Street and Oak Glen Blvd in Yucaipa on Feb. 9th. Per tamijt4, daughter of Skip, only the collar was found per post #24. See post for further info.

February 8, 2000, Tuesday Friends are worried and call police. A deputy went to the scene Tuesday but found no sign of foul play and nothing apparently missing. Newspapers were in the driveway, their Jaguar was in the garage, and their 2000 Dodge Durango and dog were gone. Eller said he assumed they had gone on a trip. From LATimes article above on Feb. 6th.

February 9, 2000, Wednesday “Authorities identified two bodies found near Yucaipa on Feb. 9 as Harold ``Skip'' Tillman (an Accountant), 55, and his wife, Joan “Joni”, (homemaker), 51, both of La Canada Flintridge on Bramblewood Road, a spokesman said. The Tillmans recently had moved to the neighborhood from Glendale (October, 1999), where they had lived for 12 to 15 years. From link on Feb. 6th.
Also “The following day, Eller and one of the Tillmans' Sunday night dinner companions decided to go into the house. As the deputy had said, the house looked undisturbed. But Eller noticed the bed covers had been turned down as if the couple had been preparing to go to bed. Sliding door unlocked. Eller listened to their phone messages and heard the call from the man who had found the dog (actually dog collar?). Eller called him and explained the situation.” Also found in the grave a sheet matching the Tillmans’ bed sheet, also green paper towels and a green hand towel that matched items in the home. Investigators at the crime scene near the dog’s body found blood in the roadway and than located the graves. Cause of death is strangulation. Skip was possible stabbed in neck.

February 11, 2000, Friday On Feb. 11, the Tillmans' new silver Dodge Durango was found in Van Nuys, parked near Community Street and Haskell Avenue. “We would like to talk to anyone who saw this vehicle between Sunday night, Feb. 6, and the time it was found on Friday, Feb. 11,'' Lenihan said. (Link for Feb. 6 thru Feb. 11 notations: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/NEIGHBORS+STUNNED+BY+KILLINGS.-a083421496)

March 10, 2000 Half-brother of Joan Tillman cleared in slayings. “They mysterious killings probably were not the result of a random home invasion. Investigators have lifted fingerprints from the Tillmans’ Dodge Durango, which was found abandoned in Van Nuys. But that hasn’t given police any leads so far.” From http://articles.glendalenewspress.c...50011_1_investigators-detectives-half-brother

September, 2008 A cold case squad is reinvestigated cold case from 2000. The only lead is from a caller that saw two men in the wash a few days before bodies were discovered. White male, late 30s, early 30s, long brown or black hair wearing a baseball cap. No description on second man. Driving a green Ford Bronco. Link: http://abc7.com/archive/6398238/

August, 2015 – New detective/investigator on the case, per tamijt post #134.


tamijt - if you "see" something wrong on this Timeline, please post the correct information and I shall change it.

Thank you so much. Just quickly read through but looks fine. I am pressed for time today but will try to help with more and greatly appreciate the work. It is much easier to follow than bouncing from post to post. Thank you again. I can't express how much the attention to this mean to me and my family.

 

[tamijt4]

With regard to question 1 : Using the county dump as a burial site gave the killer(s) a plausible reason to be in the area if they were stopped while driving to or from the area. The McStay family was also buried very close to a county dump site.

I had been pursuing the "perps were from out of the country" theory for a moment. Then thought if the green Bronco had any relevance to the case then someone had to have lived in the states or in CA as I don't think Bronco's have ever been used for rental cars. I wondered also about state park, or park ranger vehicles in CA. If they use them, what color they are and possible relevance there.

 

[tamijt4]

I was just about to post something similar. Why were you considered a suspect ? TIA

It seems I was frantically calling my dad repeatedly that night. It was so long ago but in hindsight it had to have been about the time the were leaving for dinner. Could have been after but I am pretty sure in AZ the sun hadn't gone down yet. I have done the same thing with the same circumstances with others as well. I had no ideas what was going on in his life at the time. I assumed it was just business as usual and that he still lived a modest existence. So were wrong. lol
I am not positive though. They never said so much to me, but others that were interviewed did. One of the psychics from the show the aired told me as well.

 

[tamijt4]

I found this and had intended to try to reach them. The first contact I actually had with regard to this case was from a psychic show that was actually produced and aired. Someone was trying to find me the link again. Jackie Barrett (lots of jackies popping up in this case) was one of the psychics. I had watched the show and attempted reach out to her. At the time I was unaware of her "fame" and thought she was just an ameteur or idk. Anyway she did contact me and we talked for a few hours one night. Some about the evidence she was privy to, some about her "intuition" about my dad and I, like I said she was the first person to actually talk to me like I mattered in my dad's life at all and told me I was a suspect as well.

UPDATE - as of yesterday I was able to locate all of the people named in this article connected with "the documentary" except 1 female listed as a psychic (continue to have problems pulling up the article for her name). The links to them may be old or might not reach them. I will update you with details as soon as they become available. I simply asked if they recalled the case, had any information they might be able to share, and if they would share why the project was never completed.

Detectives continue to avoid my emails. I have sent them with regard to connection with the McStay family case, with any connection to the dentist Dr. Nye/Newhart (whose records now show him instead of my dad, Skip, as the president of his dental office) a couple of other cases over the years, and finally asking about the whereabouts of personal effects for Joni and Skip. They all go unanswered. Questions with regard to specific timeline and evidence that lead LE's to their house, then to the gravesite, then to the dog and their bodies have not been directly answered by LE's. I have been told by LE's in person that they believe they were taken to the gravesite in their own Dodge Durango and there was no evidence in/on that vehicle after doing a special "super glue" testing of the vehicle. That information combined with the varying stories with regard to the dog leave much room for speculation. I think (as I write this) that these facts must also be key information that they will use to eliminate or consider suspects with. I am also trying to obtain a death certificate for answers to the COD.

Many clients with "connections" to my dad (Skip) are merely tax clients. Many I am told are companies that he was the LLC. President, or even just people that lived at the same house (still learning more about the legality of that means, how he came to do this, and if it is relevant) for. This may or may not be a possible lead. No one he currently knows knew he was in business with the "bank robbing dentist". Dr. Nye's current legal status of course raises eyebrows, but unsure if it was or is being considered as a possible lead. I appreciate all the leads and links

I am now, 15 years later, just beginning to learn the amount of money that was "at stake" in any given deal my dad was working on. I honestly had no more information than the clothing designer (Hayes) being suspect and was unaware my dad and/or Joni even owned a house. The possibility that Skip had been involved in things that Joni had no knowledge of is very possible. Opinion is that she would probably not have been party to something he was unaware of. The new knowledge that Skip may have considered taking his own life and that they had considered relocating to another state opens new possibilities as well. I have checked my records and confirmed that at some point years ago I shredded my copy of the will and codicil. I am trying to find someone with a copy to send me. When I received them years ago my first thought, after just looking at them and without consideration of the details enclosed, was that the codicil signature by my dad did not look like his signature---or it looked "not right" and I thought it might be forged or done under duress. Some things about a person just remain the same and his signature was one of them. I also knew the type of pen he used and always carried and still used when I saw him briefly the last time in 1997 or 1998. After a few conversations with people I am very aware to give exact answers I will need a copy. Emotions were very high at the time and when I get 2-3 different answers I know I need to have it in front of me to remember the timeline of events and people involved. I do know that the Jackie W. originally in charge was in business with Skip, the extent unknown, and nature as well. She was very rude to me and at the time declined to give me access to anything of my fathers, or to come to his house. She had told the next in line, Suzie, that she could take over as she "didn't want to deal with it" and was said to have "squandered" a lot of income/assets and also had access to their home for a period of time that no one else did. Karol was asked to handle it by Suzie and everyone else named agreed that he was more than qualified. Recent conversations reconfirmed for me that he handled the distribution fairly as well as protected the assets yet was fair to those who had claim against my dad.

I almost wanted to just stop looking and walk away from this. We may not have a choice. Skip and Joni's friends who were close have, I think, run through all of the possibilities (that I wasn't privy to until recently and with your help) and the LE's obviously have more information than I ever dreamed possible since they do have my dad's records, computer, etc. I will continue to field questions, and have my own of their friends, and see where it goes. They have expressed a need for me to move forward as I am the only available relative to either of them right now. I try to post with relevant information, while considering it all and trying to post facts that are confirmed and avoid too much speculation. All of this is a little overwhelming as I learn about their lives and I will do my best to pass on all I know. I have grown to accept a natural instinct for being able to tune in to relevant details and continue to prove to ask questions that inspire the truth from people or that will bring much needed answers. Not an exact science but at least a little insight about how I deal with things and what provokes or inspires me. I also became very intune with what I have at stake. I was trying to explain to my kids what I am doing here (websleuths) and what we are trying to do. My youngest child (8) said "mom, what if the person you are talking to (emails, posts, phone calls) is the person who killed them?" I had to tell her it was very possible at some point and that I could only hope that somehow I will inspire someone to come forward, provoke them with our questions or at least by continuing to talk this out, the LE's in this case will stumble upon the guilty party and we can stop worrying.

 

[tamijt4]

After seeing how long my last post was, I wanted to say thank you for walking thru this with me. Thank you for keeping me thinking and asking questions. Please forgive my "short novels" as my husband calls them. Please forgive my inability still to separate facts from emotions. Please forgive my "tangents" and run ons. there are not too many uninterrupted moments in my day to include my thoughts. If i didn't just wing it, post it without proof reading and hope for the best nothing would ever get posted. I just got back on here after losing my PC hard drive with 7 years info on it, so a bit emotional, but will get back to answering questions in a more individual one on one form.

 

[tamijt4]

How long has it lasted. That those around at the time thought you had something to do with or thought you knew whom done it? And are there still some to this day that questions your possible involvement?..That was Jackie's thinking at the time yes?

I don't honestly know. I only went to L.A. in person once. Some may still think that. If she was one with that idea, she would it seems be trying to shift blame. She would have more to gain from what I am told than I ever would. She also had access to their home after then went missing. Seems she spent a few weeks there unwatched. My dad pretty much stopped contact with my sister and I when he married Joni. I was 8 and she was 6. I saw him again for a brief couple of hours in AZ 2 or 3 years before they died. They came here. My life had been all but destroyed and the visit was interrupted. Did not make circumstances any better or outside opinions of us or me. Jackie wouldn't have wanted me around and didn't want to acknowledge my right to an estate because she wanted it for herself and wouldn't have wanted anyone questioning her motives and the items missing from the home.

When the "players" were described to me during the assigning of the executor, my first thought went to her and her position. Who better to have criminals at arms reach than a probation/parole officer. There seem to be a few other clients my dad had that had similar acquaintances. I know more now than ever about their lives but the leads keep getting further out of reach the more details i learn.