CA - Use of deadly force by police disappears on Richmond streets

[Woodland]

I am not sure how one can say that LEO conduct has nothing to do with the homicide rate. Why do you think cops try to be proactive in getting guns off the streets? Why do they do traffic stops and search cars whenever they suspect there are guns or weapons inside? Why do they frisk people who are out and about at 3 am, with no good reason? They do all of that to get guns out of the hands of robbers and car jackers. And doing so cuts the crime rate down, somewhat. When they stop being aggressive, the crime rates rise. As we have seen recently in various large cities which have been heavily protested.

Not arguing getting guns off the street (an oxymoron in the US though), traffic stops, frisking with cause etc helps the cause - nor am I trying to make anyone see it my way.

Apples and oranges to me - including adding protests to policing in Richmond, CA.

 

[katydid23]

If they have no warrant, they shouldn't be doing any of that, IMO.

I frequently take drives in the middle of the night when I need some solace and quiet time. Should I be searched for weapons?

This isn't Minority Report. You can't harass and arrest people for something they *might* do.

They do not need a warrant to search a car if certain conditions are met. If you are taking a drive at night, and everything is legal, then they cannot search your car. If you are drunk and high then they can legally search for the source. If you have an open warrant then he can arrest you and that gives him cause. If there is anything in plain view, he can search the car. If he smells anything illegal, like alcohol on your breath or pot, he can search.

Many of the weapons taken off the street happen because the driver is on suspended license or owes court fines and is arrested on an open warrant.

Driving at night for solace is not illegal. Driving at night on a suspended license with a trunk full of drugs/weapons, is illegal.

 

[bluesneakers]

I couldn't really compile my thoughts in an adequate post, but yours covers it pretty well!

We should be commending these officers, instead we're talking about homicide rates that are shown clearly to be dropping steadily over time, with fluctuation in between.

Agree with both of these statements!

 

[i.b.nora]

I think Chief Magnus should be applauded for his services to the citizens of Richmond. I am positive he will be missed.

Richmond Police Chief Chris Magnus to head Tuscon department
By Steve Rubenstein Updated 7:35 pm, Monday, November 16, 2015

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Richmond-Police-Chief-Chris-Magnus-headed-to-6636933.php

“Richmond Police Chief Chris Magnus, who as head of the department for 10 years presided over big declines in crime, was selected the new chief of Tucson, according to officials in that city.

Magnus is expected to be formally approved Tuesday by the Tucson City Council.”

*

“During his tenure in Richmond, Magnus led efforts to improve community policing and communicate through social media. He implemented a gunshot-locating system and embraced other high-tech surveillance tools.”

*

“Magnus survived a racial discrimination lawsuit that had been filed by seven black sergeants, lieutenants and captains soon after his hiring. In 2012, a jury threw out all claims of harassment and bias and awarded no damages after a three-month trial.

The officers had claimed Magnus favored staff that was not African American and made racially insensitive remarks. But Magnus countered that the plaintiffs resented him because he was white, gay and an outsider.”

*

“Last year, Magnus married Terrance Cheung, the chief of staff to Richmond Mayor Tom Butt. Magnus was said to be the first openly gay male police chief to marry.

Butt said Monday that Richmond was sad to see both Magnus and Cheung depart.

“The chief has done great things for Richmond,” the mayor said. “He’s been a good leader and a good manager. He’s changed the culture of the Police Department. He’s made it a different one and a better one. But he has left behind a good bench. We’ll be OK.”"​

 

[nothingnew]

Homicide rates doubled this year.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/bre...richmond-two-wounded-shootings-still-critical

The city of Richmond is coming off a year in which homicides increased to 21, up from a 11 in 2014, a figure that was the lowest in recorded history since 1971.

Yep, that sounds more like what I'm hearing about the "Yay" in general. I grew up there and I won't get out of the car in my hometown except at Aunt and Uncle's house. my parents still own the house I grew up in and I cry every time I drive by to see it. Yay!

 

[bluesneakers]

I think Chief Magnus should be applauded for his services to the citizens of Richmond. I am positive he will be missed.

[rsbm]

“During his tenure in Richmond, Magnus led efforts to improve community policing and communicate through social media. He implemented a gunshot-locating system and embraced other high-tech surveillance tools.”

After reading this I checked out their social media and whoever is behind it is doing a great job. And via their twitter:

[video=twitter;677514808862760960]https://twitter.com/RPDCAOnline/status/677514808862760960[/video]

And a link to
Message from Chief Magnus about Violence Reduction efforts and challenges

 

[nothingnew]

Chief Chris Magnus has shown what a difference a leader with the right frame work can make when it comes to police and the community they serve - stunning results. So glad he managed to prove this before retiring - imo this legacy will be a model to look back on whether or not it is followed by any other police department.

Find it equally stunning that anyone can equate LE conduct and homicide rates in any city - imo, the two have nothing to do with each other. No claim, stance or argument could ever change my mind.

Who calls LE and advises, ahead of time -

- I'm dissatisfied with my spouse and plan to kill them as soon as I take out a large life insurance policy on them

- I lost custody of my kids to the other parent, therefore I plan to do them in - maybe the kids as well

- I'm having trouble with rival gang members so need to knock a few of them off in the near future

- or any other reason for committing murder known to mankind

Preventing people from killing one another will never happen imo since the reasons for doing it in the first place are so varied - a civilized society can only react and manage the deed after it's been carried out. The court system has eroded and is not a deterrent these days - but that's another topic.

If one wants to blame LE for a rise in homicide rates, then shouldn't fraud, assault etc be thrown in as well? By the same token, cannot buy into policing and policing alone is responsible for any drop in homicides or any other crime. People work together or they don't.

All jmo.

I'd never, ever try to change your mind but I will state my opinion, why not. When I read the headline my first thought was "are the cops even getting out of their cars and interacting or what's going on exactly." So I scroll through and find out their homicide rates are up-That is more inline with my visits anywhere in the Bay Area the last couple years. I'm sorry but it used to be a beautiful place and in my eyes that's pretty much gone. I'm sure there's spots of sweetness and light still but I'm not going to post them because then they'll just turn into .... JMO
No offense to anyone living there or thereabouts-I understand, I still have family in the general area.

 

[Woodland]

I'd never, ever try to change your mind but I will state my opinion, why not. When I read the headline my first thought was "are the cops even getting out of their cars and interacting or what's going on exactly." So I scroll through and find out their homicide rates are up-That is more inline with my visits anywhere in the Bay Area the last couple years. I'm sorry but it used to be a beautiful place and in my eyes that's pretty much gone. I'm sure there's spots of sweetness and light still but I'm not going to post them because then they'll just turn into .... JMO
No offense to anyone living there or thereabouts-I understand, I still have family in the general area.

UBM

According to the in-depth article posted, they are 'getting out of their vehicles and interacting with the residents' - in a different manner than other US cities using very different training methods and mindset.

Are you able to equate the statements comparing their policing methods and rise in homicide rates - still seeing 2 separate and unrelated statements.

Not sure how people can still see LE bullets = law and order. Apples and oranges imo.

 

[bluesneakers]

UBM

According to the in-depth article posted, they are 'getting out of their vehicles and interacting with the residents' - in a different manner than other US cities using very different training methods and mindset.

Are you able to equate the statements comparing their policing methods and rise in homicide rates - still seeing 2 separate and unrelated statements.

Not sure how people can still see LE bullets = law and order. Apples and oranges imo.

Not only apples and oranges, but to make any sort of comparison at all one year, which appears to be an anomaly, isn't enough time to gather any meaningful data.

 

[Tawny]

Fluctuation. Spikes and valleys are normal for this area. Why is that being ignored?

 

[katydid23]

It is kind of funny to me, that one od the biggest reforms that he is lauded for, is actually undoing a 'reform' from earlier decades. And that reform was instituted for good reasons, which may soon crop up.

This chief is being praised for setting an exact, unchanged schedule for beat cops. They are assigned the exact same beats, every day with no changes. And their personal emails and cell numbers are on the web for the public to see along with their daily schedules.

That was how it used to be [minus the cells/emails] ---in the good ol days every beat cop knew all of his business owners and locals very well. As a matter of fact, so well, that they often did not want to bust them if they found out they were doing crimes. And many of the cops began taking bribes to keep their mouths shut. There was a lot of police corruption back then. Cops taking payoffs. And that is the potential problem when you have the exact same cops every day, becoming close friends with the people they are supposed to 'patrol.' What happens when a cop sees that his friends son is selling heroin out of the restaurant's back room, once that have become close friends, confidantes? And this business owner has the cops cell phone number and email, and see each other every day. Is the cop going to now feel comfortable enough to bust the kid for sales? Or is it easier to overlook it since that is his beat every single day and he is expected to walk it 8 hours every day for years? Community policing sounds cozy but it can have it's drawbacks. That is why they changed it up years ago, and decided that cops should be more objective and have changing beats and not be so closely connected to the people they are supposed to investigate and arrest, if necessary. Just sayin...

 

[i.b.nora]

I'd never, ever try to change your mind but I will state my opinion, why not. When I read the headline my first thought was "are the cops even getting out of their cars and interacting or what's going on exactly." So I scroll through and find out their homicide rates are up-That is more inline with my visits anywhere in the Bay Area the last couple years. I'm sorry but it used to be a beautiful place and in my eyes that's pretty much gone. I'm sure there's spots of sweetness and light still but I'm not going to post them because then they'll just turn into .... JMO
No offense to anyone living there or thereabouts-I understand, I still have family in the general area.

Did you read the four page Message from Chief Magnus about Violence Reduction Efforts and Challenges?

I found it very informative.

 

[katydid23]

Fluctuation. Spikes and valleys are normal for this area. Why is that being ignored?

Well then if it is normal for spikes and valleys, why wsas he given credit for the 'valley' of homicides in 2014?

 

[katydid23]

Did you read the four page Message from Chief Magnus about Violence Reduction Efforts and Challenges?

I found it very informative.

It sounded like a lot of excuse, to my ears.

" Gee, if everyone would have done what I told them to do it would have worked but it didn't and its not my fault, goodbye…"

 

[Tawny]

The police are supposed to "serve and protect" not "hide and catch". We seem to have this idea that cops are tactical guerilla soldiers who are supposed to hide and then catch us in the act ("they'll see you before you see them" that commercial gives me the creeps).

When did this happen? Officers used to be well known in the communities, they were trusted, they were friendly, they were available if you needed help. Now they hide behind billboards and wait for us to screw up.

 

[katydid23]

The police are supposed to "serve and protect" not "hide and catch". We seem to have this idea that cops are tactical guerilla soldiers who are supposed to hide and then catch us in the act ("they'll see you before you see them" that commercial gives me the creeps).

When did this happen? Officers used to be well known in the communities, they were trusted, they were friendly, they were available if you needed help. Now they hide behind billboards and wait for us to screw up.

Cops used to be 'friendly' before there were deadly gangs hiding out with AK47s, ready to open fire on innocents and cops. It is a different time. Cops used to be 'friendly' before they started getting blindsided during traffic stops and being shot as they approached the cars.

 

[Woodland]

It is kind of funny to me, that one od the biggest reforms that he is lauded for, is actually undoing a 'reform' from earlier decades. And that reform was instituted for good reasons, which may soon crop up.

This chief is being praised for setting an exact, unchanged schedule for beat cops. They are assigned the exact same beats, every day with no changes. And their personal emails and cell numbers are on the web for the public to see along with their daily schedules.

That was how it used to be [minus the cells/emails] ---in the good ol days every beat cop knew all of his business owners and locals very well. As a matter of fact, so well, that they often did not want to bust them if they found out they were doing crimes. And many of the cops began taking bribes to keep their mouths shut. There was a lot of police corruption back then. Cops taking payoffs. And that is the potential problem when you have the exact same cops every day, becoming close friends with the people they are supposed to 'patrol.' What happens when a cop sees that his friends son is selling heroin out of the restaurant's back room, once that have become close friends, confidantes? And this business owner has the cops cell phone number and email, and see each other every day. Is the cop going to now feel comfortable enough to bust the kid for sales? Or is it easier to overlook it since that is his beat every single day and he is expected to walk it 8 hours every day for years? Community policing sounds cozy but it can have it's drawbacks. That is why they changed it up years ago, and decided that cops should be more objective and have changing beats and not be so closely connected to the people they are supposed to investigate and arrest, if necessary. Just sayin...

Trust you have a link for that claim?

 

[katydid23]

Trust you have a link for that claim?

what claim?

 

[Woodland]

Well then if it is normal for spikes and valleys, why wsas he given credit for the 'valley' of homicides in 2014?

He's taking it both ways - I for one don't see any spike or valley the result of his policing frame work.

 

[bluesneakers]

Well then if it is normal for spikes and valleys, why wsas he given credit for the 'valley' of homicides in 2014?

Respectfully, I have to say I'm surprised to see you coming down so hard on a member of law enforcement, one who works hard at what he does, is trying to improve the relationship between le and citizens, has a lot of support, and is leaving only because he, in my eyes, got a promotion of sorts.

JMO