Cadaver dog hit on scent in DBs bedroom

[Oriah]

i hesitate to even post this article, but i will because i believe it puts into perspective the confidence Mr.Rugen has in his source.

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/twisted-words-wreak-havoc-missing-baby-lisa-case



this is from Isabelle Zehnder, WS approved author.

Oh, boy.

 

[Minette]

askfornia, thank you for that! A much more well-written piece.


OT: is it just me, or is WS taking a very long time to load/occasionally failing to load pages? It went down for me completely for a while last night. I am not having this trouble with any other sites. Thanks for any info.

 

[In da Middle]

This is the current bridge situation, is that correct locals?

http://www.modot.mo.gov/kansascity/major_projects/documents/Aerial2.pdf

Yes. There is an approx 5-8 ft wide walkway/bike lane on each side of the bridge separated from traffic by a continuous barrier that is several ft tall. Google street view images were taken before this change was made so it doesn't show it.

 

[DeAnn]

Oh, boy.

Interesting since the "bad article" was also an Examiner article. Interesting how it just says "writer" and doesn't say "Examiner writer."

I know of no mainstream media in KC that reported on this yesterday.

And finally .....journalists wouldn't normally use "source close to law enforcement." it's either law enforcement or not.

Who could fit the "close to" and be credible?

 

[Oriah]

Interesting since the "bad article" was also an Examiner article. Interesting how it just says "writer" and doesn't say "Examiner writer."

I know of no mainstream media in KC that reported on this yesterday.

And finally .....journalists wouldn't normally use "source close to law enforcement." it's either law enforcement or not.

Who could fit the "close to" and be credible?

BBM:
Umm...ugh. No one, during an active investigation.

*sigh*

 

[askfornina]

what i want to know is, since Mr.Rugen could forsee the "critical consequences" that misquoting his information could have, why didn't he think about these "critical consequences" before posting this information in the first place? surely he had to know that some people were going to take it as fact. it seems as though he isn't very confident in this information. why share it?? what a mess.

 

[Minette]

That's why I was saying he doesn't have much of a leg to stand on when criticizing people for taking this piece of information out of context and running with it when it was so ill-advised to post it in the first place. I guess everyone wants a scoop.

 

[Whisperer]

Since LE removed those items during the search, they must be significant. At the very least they will get prints.DNA of the last person touching them..at best they will have had a cadaver hit.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

askfornia, thank you for that! A much more well-written piece.


OT: is it just me, or is WS taking a very long time to load/occasionally failing to load pages? It went down for me completely for a while last night. I am not having this trouble with any other sites. Thanks for any info.

Kimster posted this.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7419435&postcount=8"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - can't scroll anymore[/ame]

 

[Whisperer]

Why were Lisa's clothes removed? I already heard the story that she has two identical outfits, but for the sake of reason, let's say she just had one. Why remove the clothing?

It was found. This leads me down a path that DB didn't recall what she did and must have either undressed her or changed her clothing that night....or someone else removed her clothing.

 

[DeAnn]

Why were Lisa's clothes removed? I already heard the story that she has two identical outfits, but for the sake of reason, let's say she just had one. Why remove the clothing?

It was found. This leads me down a path that DB didn't recall what she did and must have either undressed her or changed her clothing that night....or someone else removed her clothing.

If you are referring to my post....it's not a "story" ....it's simply speculation or a theory if you will.

 

[indepmo]

Why were Lisa's clothes removed? I already heard the story that she has two identical outfits, but for the sake of reason, let's say she just had one. Why remove the clothing?

It was found. This leads me down a path that DB didn't recall what she did and must have either undressed her or changed her clothing that night....or someone else removed her clothing.

IF and I say IF her clothes were removed, the first thing that comes to mind to me is "a bath"

 

[hambirg]

As I was looking at some pics of the house this morning, I got a really horrible thought. But I want to know if BL was put in something like a 5-gal paint bucket and it was sealed, would a dog be able to make a hit, say if it had been in a car for a period of time. . .say less than an hour?

Horrible, I know.

 

[Sherbie]

As I was looking at some pics of the house this morning, I got a really horrible thought. But I want to know if BL was put in something like a 5-gal paint bucket and it was sealed, would a dog be able to make a hit, say if it had been in a car for a period of time. . .say less than an hour?

Horrible, I know.

You're not the only one whose mind wanders in that direction. I hadn't thought of the paint bucket, but had considered that if Lisa were transported in one of the vehicles, a cadaver dog might not have hit on them if she were completely contained. Paint bucket, big Rubbermaid tub, plastic bags all taped up and secured inside something else, etc. Lord, I hope not.

 

[hambirg]

You're not the only one whose mind wanders in that direction. I hadn't thought of the paint bucket, but had considered that if Lisa were transported in one of the vehicles, a cadaver dog might not have hit on them if she were completely contained. Paint bucket, big Rubbermaid tub, plastic bags all taped up and secured inside something else, etc. Lord, I hope not.

Yeah, there were an awful lot of paint cans in the pic of the boys' bedroom. They must have been doing some painting fairly recently. That's what made me think of it.

 

[madge]

No recording on the bridge now. Any way to go back in a time machine and find a map of traffic on the bridge that night at say around the critical times. Satellite imagery??? As you can see I have no clue on these maps

 

[Oriah]

You're not the only one whose mind wanders in that direction. I hadn't thought of the paint bucket, but had considered that if Lisa were transported in one of the vehicles, a cadaver dog might not have hit on them if she were completely contained. Paint bucket, big Rubbermaid tub, plastic bags all taped up and secured inside something else, etc. Lord, I hope not.

An HRD dog *should* be able to alert on human remains in the above listed containers.

 

[cityslick]

An HRD dog *should* be able to alert on human remains in the above listed containers.

If the baby was in some sort of container, but was transported by car, how likely would the dog be able to get any hit in the car?

I myself don't think this scenario is likely, just curious.

 

[Oriah]

If the baby was in some sort of container, but was transported by car, how likely would the dog be able to get any hit in the car?

I myself don't think this scenario is likely, just curious.

It would depend on what kind of container (the material of the container matters a lot)- and to a certain extent- the physical source of the decomp scent itself. Many materials leach HR scent particles into a container itself, where they can be detected by an HRD dog. Think of it like nuking spaghetti in a tupperware container. The spaghetti sauce will stain the tupperware container- and retain the scent to a dog trained in specific scent discrimination. The scent particles remain- despite washing- because they have been 'stained' into the container.
Also, many scents leach through methods of containment onto the substrate they are placed on, which means they remain there after the container is removed.
An HRD dog should alert to all of these types of scenarios, if there is HR scent present. HTH.

 

[Elley Mae]

I wonder if the dog used was trained in "tracking" versus "scent detection"? That's if tracking the scent was thought of early on.