Cadaver dog hit on scent in DBs bedroom

[KsStormy]

We've talked quite a bit about how bodies float and that's how they are found. What if she was put into something that floats and it floated down stream much quicker. SAR peeps would probably have more knowledge on how fast she would have gotten down stream in a floating container.

This is probably unlikely, but I was thinking about how people (illegally) go over Niagara Falls in balls.

I guess then the risk of it getting caught up in a log jam are more likely.

This thread makes me really hope that Lisa was kidnapped by someone who wanted to love her and give her a better life.

How far downstream is what has been bugging me. I saw huge TREES floating down that river when I was up north of KC on October 14th. I was just amazed at the power & speed , & all the debris....
Also the fact that after SO much searching that was on the news for the state trooper, he still was found by a highway crew, 200-300 yards away from where he disappeared ( NOT in the river). Imagine the manpower & $$$ it would cost the state to search that river.

 

[sarx]

How about whether HRD dogs were used during the river searches and how effective can they be when deployed on water?

IIRC yes, they were, but don't quote me on that at this point.

Water search dogs are their own discipline and require very specific training, so you don't just take any SAR dog and stick them on a boat. They can be incredibly effective, but like everything else (and maybe even more so than some other types of SAR) there are a lot of variables and they can greatly affect the success of the dog.

 

[vlpate]

while I am not discounting the river, IF she was put in the river it would be far more likely to be either further upstream or downstream rather than right here. IF she was put into the river after being transported by a vehicle, upstream or downstream provides MUCH easier and more private access. I can almost guarantee you that if it was her that did it, she did not walk to the river. Other people maybe. Walking to the river - actually TO the water part of the river - at night right here would be for someone who makes a habit of walking down there at night.

Knowing what I know about DB, and that's not much, she seems more of a "depends on the kindness of strangers" type girl. I truly do not believe she's a take charge kind of girl. So, IMO, she wouldn't be the one lugging the baby to the river - she'd have asked for help from someone she trusts. That help likely would have had a car.

Not saying I believe this is what happened, just saying I don't think DB would be the one running to the river.

 

[KsStormy]

Knowing what I know about DB, and that's not much, she seems more of a "depends on the kindness of strangers" type girl. I truly do not believe she's a take charge kind of girl. So, IMO, she wouldn't be the one lugging the baby to the river - she'd have asked for help from someone she trusts. That help likely would have had a car.

Not saying I believe this is what happened, just saying I don't think DB would be the one running to the river.

Good point, but did she have access to a vehicle? I know they were searched (not sure abt JI's work van?) but also not sure if the HRD dogs could have picked up a scent if there were some type of container used, & only in the car for a few minutes..? Only reason I wonder if it may have been DB alone, is because nobody has talked.

 

[vlpate]

Good point, but did she have access to a vehicle? I know they were searched (not sure abt JI's work van?) but also not sure if the HRD dogs could have picked up a scent if there were some type of container used, & only in the car for a few minutes..? Only reason I wonder if it may have been DB alone, is because nobody has talked.

Not sure if she had access to a vehicle, her brother PN took her to the store earlier in the day, and then he left.....in a vehicle.

 

[Oriah]

IIRC yes, they were, but don't quote me on that at this point.

Water search dogs are their own discipline and require very specific training, so you don't just take any SAR dog and stick them on a boat. They can be incredibly effective, but like everything else (and maybe even more so than some other types of SAR) there are a lot of variables and they can greatly affect the success of the dog.

Yep.

And also wanted to add a remark on waterways and water search dogs. There are algorithms that investigators use in order to 'map' areas such as rivers, coastlines, moving bodies of water- when it is suspected that someone has drowned or otherwise ended up in a moving body of water somehow.
They are often accurate, but sometimes a lack of resources prevents locating swiftly.

 

[cityslick]

Natsound had called KCPD back in December and had questions specifically about the river. I had to dig up the post to find it but here it is:

I asked about searches of the river. I was told that the river runs very fast through that part of town, and if a tiny baby had been thrown in the river, chances are slim that it would surface. I was also told that on the first day (October 4th), the fire department had been doing some training in that part of the river, and there were people on foot along the banks, and nothing was spotted.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Little Zaylee Grace Fryar went into the river with her mother and was never found. Her mother's body was found, an apparent suicide, but Zaylee never was. A baby is a pretty small body. When you compare 100+ pounds to a baby's weight, it's completely logical that this little body is just either caught somewhere underwater or that the elements just destroyed it. This is a horrible thought, but it happens.

http://www.wkrn.com/story/14601433/endangered-child-alert-issued-for-missing-baby

 

[norest4thewicked]

Here is a thread about Lisa and the river...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163148"]Lisa and the river - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[vlpate]

I am working off a baby acer at the moment, so even if I enlarge the crud out of the photo, it's still not clear of the carpet by the bed.

There's a diaper on the end table and, I think, one that looks used, on the floor in that pile of mess beside and behind the end table. It appears Lisa is sometimes changed in DB's bedroom, at least her diaper? Why did the dogs hit on a scent there by the bed if Lisa was sleeping in her crib. It would mean, if Lisa is deceased, she died there in the master bedroom....but how? That bed looks too small for DB, the little boy, Lisa and a cat, so I don't think she rolled over on her. Besides, she would have called 911 if she did, IMO. This case is making me crazy.

Please someone help me make a list of what is on the floor....

Pillow
Diaper
Long, flat looking cord to a heating blanket (?)
Bucket or purse
Pillow
receipt?
toy
Gauze?

 

[liltexans]

I see a plastic clothes hanger.

 

[liltexans]

There appear to be a number of stains on the carpet too. Some of the shading is an obvious shadow, but the smaller "spots" look like stains.

 

[SyraKelly]

There are 2 hangers on the floor blk/baby blue
baby wipe-under handle of purse ?
some type of bottle w/orange cap under table ?
cord and heating pad ?

I would like to know what the white square box is under table by the wall-phone headset maybe?

 

[vlpate]

The bed skirt looks really strange to me. Were they looking for Lisa under the bed? Were the sheets changed and the bed made in a hurry? It's easy to mess the fitted part of the sheets up if you are a restless sleeper, but not the bed skirt. That would drive me insane and I'd have to fix it.

 

[vlpate]

There are 2 hangers on the floor blk/baby blue
baby wipe-under handle of purse ?
some type of bottle w/orange cap under table ?
cord and heating pad ?

I would like to know what the white square box is under table by the wall-phone headset maybe?

Thermostat for the heating blanket?

 

[cityslick]

That picture is after the searches but before they moved back in?

 

[vlpate]

There appear to be a number of stains on the carpet too. Some of the shading is an obvious shadow, but the smaller "spots" look like stains.

BEM: Or cigarette burns, maybe? Like a cigarette or two was dropped and left. They seem long, rather than round or messy....from what I can see.

 

[SyraKelly]

could the brown purse be Lisa's diaper bag?

 

[vlpate]

could the brown purse be Lisa's diaper bag?

Yes, looks like it is being used as one in other pics - might be on this video...

Hey RH - here's the lawyers video....

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/baby-lisa-exclusive-tour-irwin-house-14801121

 

[vlpate]

The video I posted on the last post was from October 24 - you'll notice the sheets were stripped. This video, from October 8, shows the bed in tact with all the other stuff in it.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/lisa-irwin-inside-home-14695353