Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[Cherchri]

If anyone wants to contact the Airdie Echo so they can make a correction in their next weekly publication, here is the article with the error highlighted. Perhaps it's a good idea to contact Cheryl Hodgins and double check the information. If it came from Kathryn's best friend, perhaps it's true ... although it is inconsistent with all other information about the case.



http://eedition.airdrieecho.com/doc/Airdrie-Echo/airdrieecho_08202014/2014081901/6.html#6

As I mentioned up the thread the article was attributed to Kevin Martin. He is with the Calgary Sun. The Airdrie a Echo is a weekly publication. They will have used his article, given him credit, paraphrased and got things wrong. The friend btw is Cheri not Cheryl.

 

[bakerlady]

IMO most people do know what to expect when searching for presumably dead bodies. You would have to be some kind of stupid to not know about decomposition, especially with all the crime shows on TV nowadays. I really do think LE was hinting that the bodies were either in pieces/fragments or reduced chemically.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Yes, I see your point, and I agree that this was stated off the cuff, rather than carefully crafted wording, and so that statement, although we can pick it apart, could mean different things. For example, that announcement was, I believe, made after the family had been missing for some 17 days (June 30-July 16?) and by that time, the bodies would have reached the 'black putrefaction' phase of decomposition, and if you look up the stages of decomposition, it isn't pretty. When I read that statement from the officer, I personally read it as, 'they don't know what they've signed up for', ie, here are these lovely searchers who only want to help, however they have no clue about what they may find, because they have no idea what a dead body looks and smells like after that many days.. I agree when you say, 'how could they not know what they are looking for... unless... they are no longer recognizable'.. but I think that nature had made the bodies unrecognizable by then anyway, nevermind other reasons perhaps also making them unrecognizable. You could of course, be correct in thinking that he meant unrecognizable for other reasons, but imho, he could have meant the most basic reason in that most people have never seen a body after 17 days of decomposition, and imho, most would likely be traumatized by such a finding, and it would probably burn an image into their memories which could never be un-seen. All MOO.

If we took a poll of searchers that asked if they came across a blackened limb, head, or torso, or a bag of something in a field, would they recognize it as a possible clue... I would think the affirmative would be around 100%. Same with the general population.

They don't know what they are looking for... it's blackened body parts, not flesh coloured ones. Seems a bit silly, no? I would think LE wants those found. IMO, it's an indication that LE has something specific either in how the victims were processed, or evidence of a specific type of dump location like crude from an oil well site. "They don't know what they are looking for... the bodies have actually been broken down to dust and ash." "They don't know what they are looking for... we think they have likely been dropped in a field near cows, since we found cow manure in a wheel well." Those make a bit more sense.

As for people's sensitivities... they are signing on to search for bodies. I would assume they gave it some thought beforehand. The runup also doesn't make sense in that regard... "it's a bit of a blind search. They don't know what they signed up for because finding a body is traumatic." It doesn't fit. "... it's a bit of a blind search. They don't know the bodies were dissolved and that we are looking for signs of a greenish liquid." That fits.

The original discussion was about whether LE found evidence of the victims at the acreage, or if were they even taken there. The statement by LE was one part of several indicators that hint at the affirmative.

Or, I could be completely wrong.

 

[otto]

http://brevets-patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/992801/summary.html
APPARATUS FOR INCINERATING COMBUSTIBLE WASTES

This patent was issued in 1976. Not sure if this was already listed here.

That's the patent for remote ignition. I doubt that patent went anywhere. I have to wonder if Alvin Liknes came across processes through work in the oil field, and then tried to patent to process.

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/12/16/patent-laws-play-key-role-in-fuelling-oil-patch-rd/

 

[otto]

As I mentioned up the thread the article was attributed to Kevin Martin. He is with the Calgary Sun. The Airdrie a Echo is a weekly publication. They will have used his article, given him credit, paraphrased and got things wrong. The friend btw is Cheri not Cheryl.

Isn't the Calgary Sun notorious for publishing questionable content? What's with the unnecessary comma?

By Kevin Martin, Calgary Sun
Friday, August 15, 2014 12:03:17 EDT AM

"Garland has a connection to the Liknes family, through a sister's common-law marriage."

http://www.thesudburystar.com/2014/...gary-courtroom-today-on-liknes-obrien-murders

 

[Slebby]

Re: not wanting the public to organize their own searches - I agree it's possible LE has a strong idea of the disposal method (incineration, chemicals, water dump, etc.) I also wonder if the reason for declining public help is the concern that there would be multiple groups of well-meaning, over zealous searchers tramping over the countryside in a fairly disorganized fashion. Just as several well-meaning individuals started fundraising campaigns for the families, I'm sure multiple groups of searchers might have been gathered, all with the same intention, to find the bodies. There was so much public attention, perhaps LE feared the sheer numbers of folks yearning to help out somehow. It would have taken a lot of work to corral all that enthusiasm and direct the searches appropriately.

Not long ago, I participated in a search for a missing person, and it was very well-organized. We were given maps, and told exactly how to search the area, what to do if we found any potential evidence (such as clothing) In that case, it was the family of the missing asking for help with the search, and the numbers of volunteers was more manageable. Plus it was not a criminal investigation in which the collection of evidence could assist LE in prosecution.

I think in this Liknes case, the police really want to have full control of the search process, to ensure there are no mistakes made, nothing overlooked, and nothing to place the evidence into question. They want to do everything right to ensure a conviction.

IMHO

 

[otto]

Re: not wanting the public to organize their own searches - I agree it's possible LE has a strong idea of the disposal method (incineration, chemicals, water dump, etc.) I also wonder if the reason for declining public help is the concern that there would be multiple groups of well-meaning, over zealous searchers tramping over the countryside in a fairly disorganized fashion. Just as several well-meaning individuals started fundraising campaigns for the families, I'm sure multiple groups of searchers might have been gathered, all with the same intention, to find the bodies. There was so much public attention, perhaps LE feared the sheer numbers of folks yearning to help out somehow. It would have taken a lot of work to corral all that enthusiasm and direct the searches appropriately.

Not long ago, I participated in a search for a missing person, and it was very well-organized. We were given maps, and told exactly how to search the area, what to do if we found any potential evidence (such as clothing) In that case, it was the family of the missing asking for help with the search, and the numbers of volunteers was more manageable. Plus it was not a criminal investigation in which the collection of evidence could assist LE in prosecution.

I think in this Liknes case, the police really want to have full control of the search process, to ensure there are no mistakes made, nothing overlooked, and nothing to place the evidence into question. They want to do everything right to ensure a conviction.

IMHO

I'm sure that RCMP appreciate volunteers that are trained to participate in searches. What they don't need are untrained people that are only interested in helping search for one missing person, but who are otherwise not interested in search and rescue activities.

This is the criteria for volunteers that want to participate in missing person's searches. Their participation does not depend on what will be found during the search, but rather on whether they are a liability or an asset. A trained volunteer that is committed to search and rescue is an asset, someone that is emotionally consumed with a single missing person and who wants to run around on private property looking for a missing person is a liability.

Volunteers
•Properly trained civilian volunteers can be equally as effective as highly trained paid professionals, and are often more readily available.
•When feasible, the RCMP will also assist in the training of volunteers.
•Potential volunteer search managers are encouraged to attend RCMP-sponsored search management courses alongside potential RCMP SAR Commanders.
•The extent of SAR volunteers generally varies by province, according to provincial guidelines, standards, Workers Compensation and local RCMP requirements.
•Provincial standards and certification pre-determine qualifications, especially with volunteer SAR dog teams.
•The Search Commander must ensure both handler and dog will recognize clues and will not destroy evidence, injure the lost person or become lost or injured themselves

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ccaps-spcca/rs-eng.htm

 

[Cherchri]

Isn't the Calgary Sun notorious for publishing questionable content? What's with the unnecessary comma?

By Kevin Martin, Calgary Sun
Friday, August 15, 2014 12:03:17 EDT AM

"Garland has a connection to the Liknes family, through a sister's common-law marriage."

http://www.thesudburystar.com/2014/...gary-courtroom-today-on-liknes-obrien-murders

Absolutely. Yes!

 

[Deleted member 117120]

I'm sure that RCMP appreciate volunteers that are trained to participate in searches. What they don't need are untrained people that are only interested in helping search for one missing person, but who are otherwise not interested in search and rescue activities.

This is the criteria for volunteers that want to participate in missing person's searches. Their participation does not depend on what will be found during the search, but rather on whether they are a liability or an asset. A trained volunteer that is committed to search and rescue is an asset, someone that is emotionally consumed with a single missing person and who wants to run around on private property looking for a missing person is a liability.

Volunteers
•Properly trained civilian volunteers can be equally as effective as highly trained paid professionals, and are often more readily available.
•When feasible, the RCMP will also assist in the training of volunteers.
•Potential volunteer search managers are encouraged to attend RCMP-sponsored search management courses alongside potential RCMP SAR Commanders.
•The extent of SAR volunteers generally varies by province, according to provincial guidelines, standards, Workers Compensation and local RCMP requirements.
•Provincial standards and certification pre-determine qualifications, especially with volunteer SAR dog teams.
•The Search Commander must ensure both handler and dog will recognize clues and will not destroy evidence, injure the lost person or become lost or injured themselves

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ccaps-spcca/rs-eng.htm

Speaking of SAR volunteers, I still can't dismiss the incident that first day in Airdrie where the SAR volunteer tweeted that the remains of the three victims had been located on the farm (paraphrasing) only to remove the tweet shortly afterwards probably due to a reprimand I am sure. However, I do believe this person as he stated, had heard the police radio band width discussing the discovery. I am of the belief that partial evidence was found for the victims on the farm which eventually was confirmed via forensics to be of valuable and affirmative proof of the three being deceased. JMO.

 

[Slebby]

Speaking of SAR volunteers, I still can't dismiss the incident that first day where the SAR volunteer tweeted that the remains of the three victims had been located on the farm (paraphrasing) only to remove the tweet after reprimand I am sure. However, I do believe this person as he stated, heard the police radio band discussing the discovery. I am of the belief that partial evidence was found for the victims on the farm which eventually was confirmed via forensics to be of valuable and affirmative proof of being deceased. JMO.

I hope you are right.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

WS can close the Kijiji chapter for this case. The Estate sale ads appear to have expired and there doesn't appear to be anymore ads for items for sale. BBM
No Longer Available - Moving "Estate" Sale! Please Contact
Whole house contents for sale. Leather couch & love seat $450 and recliner $150, couch and love seat $75, dining table with 6 chairs and extend leaf $450, air hockey $20, fig tree$40, bookshelves, end tables, coffee table, boy 3 piece -1 dresser -2 ...

No Longer Available - I am a couch-no I am a bed-I am $275.00
This sofa bed couch is in fantastic shape. The couch is one of the nicest to keep clean. Couch is comfy and the bed is great, I have had many great sleeps on it. Very clean no stains. Non smoking house and no animals. Ps whole house contents for ...


http://www.kijiji.ca/v-couch-futon/calgary/i-am-a-couch-no-i-am-a-bed-i-am-a-sofa-couch/603475171
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-image.html?adId=601673918&image=0&enableSearchNavigationFlag=false

 

[Deleted member 117120]

As I mentioned up the thread the article was attributed to Kevin Martin. He is with the Calgary Sun. The Airdrie a Echo is a weekly publication. They will have used his article, given him credit, paraphrased and got things wrong. The friend btw is Cheri not Cheryl.

Cherchri, it is Cherri Hodgins two R's :loveyou:
http://www.canmoredaycare.com/your-teachers/

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Came across this page on Facebook when doing some research. Just for ref only.
Reference Trade Show 2014 - Fundraiser O'brien & Liknes Family Facebook Page post: BBM
July 26 at 11:25pm · Calgary

[modsnip]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/335820039908663/

I recall some ambiguity at the time but it surely shows how generous the vendors and patrons were.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

There is another event project for the family. Superheroes are Real Walk. Doesn't indicate the date of the walk. Cherri H is a member of this event.
A Fundraising walk to raise money for the Likness and O'Brien family..... Dress as your favorite Superhero, and show your support for the families of Nathan, Alvin & Kathy.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/618165961633009/

 

[winnnancy]

I hope you are right.

I don't remember that. Wasn't that the missing ontario family and some confusion ?

 

[Cherchri]

Cherchri, it is Cherri Hodgins two R's :loveyou:
http://www.canmoredaycare.com/your-teachers/

Good one! As you can probably tell from my "handle" I have a VERY similar name. With one R

 

[deugirtni]

I missed that one, do you have a link?

Speaking of SAR volunteers, I still can't dismiss the incident that first day in Airdrie where the SAR volunteer tweeted that the remains of the three victims had been located on the farm (paraphrasing) only to remove the tweet shortly afterwards probably due to a reprimand I am sure. However, I do believe this person as he stated, had heard the police radio band width discussing the discovery. I am of the belief that partial evidence was found for the victims on the farm which eventually was confirmed via forensics to be of valuable and affirmative proof of the three being deceased. JMO.

 

[otto]

I missed that one, do you have a link?

I think it was one of the media people sitting at the end of the Airdrie acreage driveway on July 5 that tweeted something about bodies being found. Then he removed the comment. Maybe he was listening to police scanners and heard something like "got something", and he assumed it was bodies.

 

[kaley]

Just tried that FB page and it is 'unavailable'. Sounds fishy to me.

Maybe you have to join the group. I am a member.

 

[Coldpizza]

Maybe you have to join the group. I am a member.

If it's a closed group info posted can't be paraphrased here.