Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #18

[otto]

in the academic world, it appears to be black an white... the real world has shades of grey

I think comes down to either having, or not having, the credentials to back up the claim ... nothing to do with academics. I was posting on another thread and a new poster claimed to be a forensic chemist that specialized in DNA analysis. If true, this person had the ability to add huge value to the discussion. A couple of weeks later, sure enough, he was verified ... the real deal. Lawyers and medical professionals that have been verified also add huge value in terms to offering actual insight into all sorts of related questions. Journalists have so much to offer as well, but only when they are the real deal. It means that claims made by those professionals do not have to be backed up with a link ... win-win.

 

[LoisLane]

There's a thread here for that particular case.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...o-17-March-2014/page5&highlight=Douglas+Queen

Thanks Otto. I dropped by and left the link. Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[otto]

Thanks Otto. I dropped by and left the link. Happy Thanksgiving!

Indeed, Happy Thanksgiving with Indian Summer

Photo: Mountain Ash

 

[otto]

One more ...

 

[otto]

BBM
This confuses me, how did he surprise them when they were sleeping? Did he enter their dreams and surprise them there? Wouldn't their dreams surprise him instead? I can understand if the were awoken and then surprised but being awoken isn't being surprised just awoken. Where did you find this information that they were asleep when surprised and not surprised after being awoken?

He broke into the house somehow. That's a given. Did he do this by walking up to the front door and pretending to be a late "leaving the country" sale buyer? Not likely. It's quite possible that he broke into the house through a basement window, a patio door, or a side door. Clearly, Douglas Garland got inside the Liknes home in the dark of night on a long weekend when neighbours were away. The question is: how much advance notice did Nathan and his grandparents have? If Garland is like Isreal Keyes, he did a blitz attack. Climb through a window and run to the master bedroom to shock and surprise the occupants. If he's like Russell Williams, he was in the house before the occupants came home that day, or well before they realized that he was a threat.

Was he wielding an axe, chemical weapons, or a gun ??? ... he left a trail on the sidewalk as he dragged bodies out of the house, but one body might have been removed through the garage?

Graphic: this was not a situation where boxers punched each other and one of them spat blood on the sidewalk. This was a home invasion and abduction of mortally wounded persons .. where traces of evidence were blatant on the driveway. Given the evidence on the sidewalk, I'm inclined to believe that the interior of the house is more horrific ... but that's just an opinion.

 

[stan laurel]

Graphic: this was not a situation where boxers punched each other and one of them spat blood on the sidewalk. This was a home invasion and abduction of mortally wounded persons .. where traces of evidence were blatant on the driveway. Given the evidence on the sidewalk, I'm inclined to believe that the interior of the house is more horrific.

If you go'a sleuthing you might discover how common boxers are to this event.

and you can surprise people when they are awake, not asleep.

 

[LoisLane]

Question... If a crime scene (interior of the house) is a blood-bath is it protocol to bring in the homeowners or family members to view the house and see if items around the home are not appearing as normal? I just can't fathom that LE would need the assistance of the family when the house is supposedly full of blood. Does anyone have other cases that this has been done?

ETA.. Someone I know had a neighbour who was beheaded by her husband and the immediate family was not allowed in the house until after the crime scene was cleaned up. Yes, the body was in the home and the killer was still in the home when police showed up (the son came home and found the father trying to kill himself and called police) but until the crime scene was released by investigators no one else was allowed in the home.

 

[otto]

If you go'a sleuthing you might discover how common boxers are to this event.

and you can surprise people when they are awake, not asleep.

... but how many boxers are missing from the scene, nothing but blood evidence on the sidewalk?

People that are asleep are more surprised than people that are awake when there is a home invader.

 

[otto]

Question... If a crime scene (interior of the house) is a blood-bath is it protocol to bring in the homeowners or family members to view the house and see if items around the home are not appearing as normal? I just can't fathom that LE would need the assistance of the family when the house is supposedly full of blood. Does anyone have other cases that this has been done?

ETA.. My sister's neigbour was beheaded by her husband and the immediate family was not allowed in the house until after the crime scene was cleaned up. Yes, the body was in the home and the killer was still in the home when police showed up (the son came home and found the father trying to kill himself and called police) but until the crime scene was released by investigators no one else was allowed in the home.

The crime scene is photographed by the prosecution and the defence. Witnesses are brought into the house to authenticate what is normal, and what is missing. Both Nathan's mom, and Alvin/Kathryn's son were asked by police to identify what it missing, what is normal. This is normal from the prosecutors perspective. Police need to know what is normal, and what is missing, from the house. Two children are better than one when narrowing this down.

Beheadings are still really foreign to me. Was he from the middle east?

 

[LoisLane]

The crime scene is photographed by the prosecution and the defence. Witnesses are brought into the house to authenticate what is normal, and what is missing. Both Nathan's mom, and Alvin/Kathryn's son were asked by police to identify what it missing, what is normal. This is normal from the prosecutors perspective. Police need to know what is normal, and what is missing, from the house. Two children are better than one when narrowing this down.

Beheadings are still really foreign to me. Was he from the middle east?

No he was canadian born and raised, caucasian. They had children, and were separating.

ETA: I did not know that the crime scene photos' are taken from two different perspectives.

 

[stan laurel]

... but how many boxers are missing from the scene, nothing but blood evidence on the sidewalk?

People that are asleep are more surprised than people that are awake when there is a home invader.

When are they surprised, asleep or awake? You can be awoken and then surprised but not when you are sleeping. I was trying to make a point about debating things which are obtuse, which ruins the continuity in creative thinking.

If you go sleuthing you will discover boxers,, a boxer very well may be missing. As for the fragment it might very well be a bit of tissue that is common with being cold cocked. considering the pattern as large of those two splashes at marker 15, they do appear in my opinion to be splashes of falling not thrown, e.g., a nosebleed, spitting/coughing out a large amount of blood. if the garage door were open that might be where impact tissue flew.

by spitting, I mean drooling.

 

[LoisLane]

I couldn't get stan laurel's pic to post either, so I reblew it up and circled area.

View attachment 61138

Another thought in regards to this photo...

The sedan car was parked in the garage so not much clearance inside. I assume the car was parked inside, it was backed out when they searched the garage.

 

[stan laurel]

I reduced colours to better highlight the stains, and it appears the majority/density of the stain is the one under the garage door. hope my uploading attempt works this time. nope won't upload.

 

[stan laurel]

Another thought in regards to this photo...

The sedan car was parked in the garage so not much clearance inside. I assume the car was parked inside, it was backed out when they searched the garage.

maybe both the car and truck were in the driveway and the car moved into the garage to make room for another vehicle that needed to utilize the driveway too?

 

[otto]

No he was canadian born and raised, caucasian. They had children, and were separating.

ETA: I did not know that the crime scene photos' are taken from two different perspectives.

Just to be sure we're on the same page ... what is the name of the victim ?

 

[otto]

When are they surprised, asleep or awake? You can be awoken and then surprised but not when you are sleeping. I was trying to make a point about debating things which are obtuse, which ruins the continuity in creative thinking.

If you go sleuthing you will discover boxers,, a boxer very well may be missing. As for the fragment it might very well be a bit of tissue that is common with being cold cocked. considering the pattern as large of those two splashes at marker 15, they do appear in my opinion to be splashes of falling not thrown, e.g., a nosebleed, spitting/coughing out a large amount of blood. if the garage door were open that might be where impact tissue flew.

by spitting, I mean drooling.

Israel Keyes stormed the bedrooms of his victims. Even though they heard him, they were unable to call for help.
Russell Williams simply entered the house while the occupant was out.

I think that Garland is thinking like Israel Keyes (suicide), and Russell Williams (isolation) ... a very twisted perspective of reality.

 

[LoisLane]

I reduced colours to better highlight the stains, and it appears the majority/density of the stain is the one under the garage door. hope my uploading attempt works this time. nope won't upload.

Here is the pic on behalf of Stan.

 

[LoisLane]

maybe both the car and truck were in the driveway and the car moved into the garage to make room for another vehicle that needed to utilize the driveway too?

I wonder if LE took the car away for testing. I think they took the truck. I can't remember.

 

[LoisLane]

Israel Keyes stormed the bedrooms of his victims. Even though they heard him, they were unable to call for help.
Russell Williams simply entered the house while the occupant was out.

I think that Garland is thinking like Israel Keyes (suicide), and Russell Williams (isolation) ... a very twisted perspective of reality.

When you say thinking like Keyes (suicide) who does the suicide refer to? A victim?

 

[otto]

Here is the pic on behalf of Stan.

View attachment 61194

Per the video