Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #20

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  • #181
Yes, that is what Hanson stated. I wonder how much this case cost... 5-10 million? Are they given a budget and limits or cut-off at some point as in forced to shut down the efforts?
I would only be guessing - I would like to think it doesn't play a role, but logic tells me that budgetary issues are always a concern. There has to be a weighing of best interest of the case/victim and the costs associated with proceeding. There are going to be some instances, for example the search for bodies, where if there are no leads to guide them effectively, the cost becomes prohibitive to continue.

I imagine it would be extremely difficult for LE personnel to be burdened with financial constraints as a factor in serving the victim's and the community. I know that they never feel they have nearly enough money, manpower and resources, to do their jobs as effectively as they would like.
 
  • #182
Very well said LaLa!

I have had the misfortune of interviewing 'pure evil' - i.e. Psychopaths that no amount of love, compassion or rehabilitation could ever overcome. People that take great pleasure in their misdeeds and if paroled, would commit even more atrocities. These are not people that are suffering from a mental illness, in fact will openly admit to trying to use that as a legal tool. There is simply something fundamentally missing from their character.

The ethical question becomes, do they still deserve our compassion, protection and assistance? For me, the line gets drawn by using the law. I believe they should be afforded the same rights as anyone, but compassion? Forgiveness? Understanding? Not by me.

Given that you have declined to become verified, I hope you won't mind if I ask questions to help me clarify what it means to be a 'reporter in Calgary'.

Under what circumstances did you interview "pure evil", and has that case gone to trial?

Everyone is afforded the same rights in a courtroom. I have recently learned that people that have dealings with the Peel Regional Police are unlikely to be afforded rights outside of a courtroom. Fortunately, this murder occurred in Calgary ... both far away from the Peel Regional Police, Ontario, and staged guilt (a la Peel).

I don't think that there should be any understanding for people like Douglas Garland that are capable of murdering a five year old child ... murdered ... because the child was there.
 
  • #183
Interesting article in the Calgary Herald:
http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime/council-debates-a-tight-police-budget

"But new challenges and costs can add up. Some murder investigations — with wire taps, DNA analysis and detective hours — can cost Calgary Police Service more than $1 million, Hanson told council as he presented his $451-million yearly budget.

More complex investigations like the Liknes-O’Brien homicide that brought in a force-wide effort rang up a much higher bill, he added, though he couldn’t offer an actual estimate."


Calgary Sun:
http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/11/2...for-budget-boost-from-city-hall#disqus_thread

"He said Supreme Court rulings targeting false convictions have driven up the threshold for proper evidence, and police costs."

"We're paying the price today for a number of flawed prosecutions like Milgaard," said Hanson.
David Milgaard spent 23 years in prison for a 1969 Saskatoon murder he didn't commit."

Wire taps are funny things. Imagine if the prosecutors were dumb enough to accept a dinner invitation from the lead detective on a case, and the lead detective's crew was also there for dinner. A criminal could wipe out the entire prosecution in one fell swoop ... but that's not what happens. Instead, Douglas Garland got it into his head that he was really angry with Alvin and Kathryn Liknes. Because or that, he crept into their home one evening in June 2014 and attacked them. He attempted to remove evidence from the crime scene by dragging the bodies out of the house and taking them away from the murder scene ... at least that's what it looks like.

Cost estimates for having 200 officers, numerous police departments, and an extremely coherent murder investigation are probably well over a million dollars. The investigation into the murder of Laci Peterson was something like 6 million.

Does the money matter? Has the police department claimed that they are poor ... aside from wanting a new building that avoids the "perp walk".
 
  • #184
Yes, that is what Hanson stated. I wonder how much this case cost... 5-10 million? Are they given a budget and limits or cut-off at some point as in forced to shut down the efforts?

Cut off for what?

There are no searches until there is a lead.

There will be no "cut off" of expenses from the Attorney General regarding prosecuting murder.
 
  • #185
Given that you have declined to become verified, I hope you won't mind if I ask questions to help me clarify what it means to be a 'reporter in Calgary'.

Under what circumstances did you interview "pure evil", and has that case gone to trial?

Everyone is afforded the same rights in a courtroom. I have recently learned that people that have dealings with the Peel Regional Police are unlikely to be afforded rights outside of a courtroom. Fortunately, this murder occurred in Calgary ... both far away from the Peel Regional Police, Ontario, and staged guilt (a la Peel).

I don't think that there should be any understanding for people like Douglas Garland that are capable of murdering a five year old child ... because he was there.

Way back in my early career I covered crime in another province. Two high profile murderers went to trial. One ended in an acquittal, one in a conviction. Both accused were pure psychopaths in the technical sense. I was left feeling chilled by their presence. Ironically, some politicians gave me the same feeling. [emoji6]
 
  • #186
I suspect that the man hours for searching, the various units they had to deploy, not to mention the forensic costs associated with this case, were significantly higher than the 'average' homicide investigation.

Of course the expenses were higher. Hanson said from the beginning that nothing would be withheld to solve this murder, so with 200 officers, several police departments, the medical examiner, and forensic evidence results, the case was solved in 15 days. That is highly commendable! The CPS gave it everything they had. It's a done deal and they did a great job.
 
  • #187
Way back in my early career I covered crime in another province. Two high profile murderers went to trial. One ended in an acquittal, one in a conviction. Both accused were pure psychopaths in the technical sense. I was left feeling chilled by their presence. Ironically, some politicians gave me the same feeling. [emoji6]
BBM

Forgive me for asking, but given that you have presented as an unverified journalist on this website, would you mind if I asked about the last time that you were a journalist?

It's just that "would of" always catches my eye, and not because it's from a journalist.

If the memory of a case and trial is troubling, there's no reason not to identify the case ... trial means it's over and done with - nothing but history ... open season for discussion.

I mean ... if you were an HR wannabe and presented as an authority as a journalist ... well, you get the gist ... it's hard to rationalize. I would of thought different.
 
  • #188
It's painful to be illiterate, eh ... granted, no one expects investigative literacy, especially when it comes to murder ... but ... doesn't there come a time when debating how a child and his grandparents that arguing crime stats is like a light bulb ... as in "how does it relate".
 
  • #189
Wire taps are funny things. Imagine if the prosecutors were dumb enough to accept a dinner invitation from the lead detective on a case, and the lead detective's crew was also there for dinner. A criminal could wipe out the entire prosecution in one fell swoop ... but that's not what happens. Instead, Douglas Garland got it into his head that he was really angry with Alvin and Kathryn Liknes. Because or that, he crept into their home one evening in June 2014 and attacked them. He attempted to remove evidence from the crime scene by dragging the bodies out of the house and taking them away from the murder scene ... at least that's what it looks like.

Cost estimates for having 200 officers, numerous police departments, and an extremely coherent murder investigation are probably well over a million dollars. The investigation into the murder of Laci Peterson was something like 6 million.

Does the money matter? Has the police department claimed that they are poor ... aside from wanting a new building that avoids the "perp walk".
While they are not "poor" they have stated that due to the budgetary freeze, they can only bring on ten new officers next year. There are 10x that of officers that will retire within the same year, and with population growth expected to continue at a fast rate, that lowers their ability to be as effective.
 
  • #190
BBM

Forgive me for asking, but given that you have presented as an unverified journalist on this website, would you mind if I asked about the last time that you were a journalist?

It's just that "would of" always catches my eye, and not because it's from a journalist.

If the memory of a case and trial is troubling, there's no reason not to identify the case ... trial means it's over and done with - nothing but history ... open season for discussion.

I mean ... if you were an HR wannabe and presented as an authority as a journalist ... well, you get the gist ... it's hard to rationalize. I would of thought different.

Yes... do tell... HR specialists are linked to the food sourcing of humans and alien DNA in vaccinations.

Your refusal to be verified is troubling indeed.
 
  • #191
Yes... do tell... HR specialists are linked to the food sourcing of humans and alien DNA in vaccinations.

Your refusal to be verified is troubling indeed.
LOL! People are going to think you drank the kool-aid... Are we back to alien theories again?
 
  • #192
@news.talk - I'm going on the record that I am verified as someone who cares not at all if you are verified as a journalist.

Also, I am willing to go through whatever rigorous investigation it takes to be verified as a drop-dead gorgeous genius humanitarian who is always right. [emoji6]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
  • #193
@news.talk - I'm going on the record that I am verified as someone who cares not at all if you are verified as a journalist.

Also, I am willing to go through whatever rigorous investigation it takes to be verified as a drop-dead gorgeous genius humanitarian who is always right. [emoji6]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Careful what you ask for...
 
  • #194
@news.talk - I'm going on the record that I am verified as someone who cares not at all if you are verified as a journalist.

Also, I am willing to go through whatever rigorous investigation it takes to be verified as a drop-dead gorgeous genius humanitarian who is always right. [emoji6]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Too funny!

Some would agree, I am definitely certifiable. [emoji6]
 
  • #195
  • #196
Why would we ask someone who is not an insider in this current case to be verified based on something they experienced years ago? We have the choice of believing what they say or taking it with a grain of salt.
 
  • #197
Let's see... how do the city's crime stats relate..

1.People on this thread have insisted that it is fact that the trio are dead, verified by DNA evidence found in Parkhill by 'the ME', and yet, on the neighbourhood crime stats, I, for one, am having difficulty finding confirmation that 3 deaths occurred in the Parkhill neighbourhood

2.One of the reports states that there were 2 homicides in the Parkhill neighbourhood within the past 6 months, but meanwhile we are told there were 3 homicides. Could it be that one of the 3 was murdered elsewhere? If so, are we able to match up crime stats with verified homicides to distinguish perhaps where that took place?

3.The trio were reportedly killed in the month of June, but yet the June Crime Statistics list only 1 homicide in the entire city of Calgary within the month of June. We also have MSM reports stating there was a homicide in Calgary during the month of June, which was not related to this case. So there is the one homicide. Where are the 3 other murders if not in the June report?

Perhaps in July, you say? Why? Because it was in July when LE determined the 3 murders had occurred in June? Ok, so if we look at the July Crime Statistics, we see there were 4 within the entire city of Calgary in July. MSM also reports there were 4 murders in Calgary during July, which were not related to this case. So that still leaves these 3 murders unaccounted for in either June or July's Crime Statistics.

If one may be willing to state conclusively the trio are dead as fact because LE said so, then does it not seem odd that the 3 are not listed as homicides in either of those monthly reports?

4.We are told there is no place like Calgary, that Calgary's Police Service give absolutely no indication of any of the types of issues and potential problems that other police forces in larger cities within Canada seem to experience at times, that CPS are competent, there is no reason not to take their word as fact even when it isn't, and yet we see what have to be glaring errors in these reports. Not just in one of the reports, but in all of them, and not just the same error in each of the different types of reports, but different errors in each separate report. And not only that, but one of the downloads links to a completely different document than it states. These reports are displayed publicly for the world to see and they contain very important information regarding the things CPS are in-the-know about. It seems CPS are the keepers of these important stats, which are shared across Canada and combined with other police services to create our country's crime stats. One might presume that in light of all of that, CPS may wish to give a more impessive image of their competence to the public. Sure, these reports have disclaimers. Good excuse. One of the reports even states that it gets updated with new information. This case is now 5 full months old. One might imagine that they may have noticed the discrepancies and fixed them by now, especially when the stats are during the month of a very high profile case in their city. If not noticed by CPS, one might even take a leap to presume that in such a large city with such huge interest in this case, someone somewhere, may have even pointed out the error in the report which gets updated. And yet the errors remain. What is this telling us? My enquiring mind wants to know.

5.Is it possible that in fact these crime stats are NOT in error? It is possible that some theories on here, coming from people with black and white vision perhaps, could possibly be wrong? Is it possible that clues may be held within these reports, but not found because people cannot alter their beliefs even to consider other potential theories? These same people who cry out if it seems CPS are being called incompetent, even when they're not, seem to be all too willing to just accept that there are all these errors in all of these reports. Incongruous.

Also, if speaking about literacy, read the quote below. I'm not feeling the love. (BBM)

It's painful to be illiterate, eh ... granted, no one expects investigative literacy, especially when it comes to murder ... but ... doesn't there come a time when debating how a child and his grandparents that arguing crime stats is like a light bulb ... as in "how does it relate".
 
  • #198
IIRC, indications were of a violent incident having occurred at the Parkhill residence and that one person would be in medical distress. I on't recall LE saying they were all killed there. Is it possible the trio were killed somewhere other than Parkhill/Calgary, and evidence that we aren't privy to and which supports the conclusion they are all deceased was located elsewhere?

Just because we don't have the answer wrt the stats doesn't mean there isn't one or that CPS is incompetent. I'm not saying they are or aren't, but refuse to jump to a conclusion based on what we think we know.
 
  • #199
IIRC, indications were of a violent incident having occurred at the Parkhill residence and that one person would be in medical distress. I on't recall LE saying they were all killed there. Is it possible the trio were killed somewhere other than Parkhill/Calgary, and evidence that we aren't privy to and which supports the conclusion they are all deceased was located elsewhere?

Just because we don't have the answer wrt the stats doesn't mean there isn't one or that CPS is incompetent. I'm not saying they are or aren't, but refuse to jump to a conclusion based on what we think we know.

What conclusion are we jumping to? I think it is simple. The stats are open and will be updated after trial and a conviction.
 
  • #200
What conclusion are we jumping to? I think it is simple. The stats are open and will be updated after trial and a conviction.
If P (the stats are incorrect) then Q (LE is incompetent).[emoji1]

No one is saying that though. It's odd that the stats may currently be off a little bit, but the safe assumption is that while this is before the courts, and the proof of death *may* become an issue, that LE will have difficulty properly defining details of the case publicly.
 
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