CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #10

[No_Stone_Unturned]

What about the big dog across the street from Audrey's barking loudly at 2am? I thought we were told (way back when) that it was NOT the dog's habit to make a fuss in the middle of the night. Which is true? And WHY did the dog bark loudly that very night?

 

[whiterhino]

What about the big dog across the street from Audrey's barking loudly at 2am? I thought we were told (way back when) that it was NOT the dog's habit to make a fuss in the middle of the night. Which is true? And WHY did the dog bark loudly that very night?

The dog across the street belonged to LF who lived there with her husband, their dog and their son IIRC.

I'm not sure which dogs habits you're referring to, AG or LF?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

You know, with all these large dogs around and Audrey's two dogs, the killer had to be quite sure that he wouldn't be attacked.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Community Shocked By Retired Teacher's Murder

Audrey Gleave, 73, was found dead Thursday morning in her secluded home in Ancaster.

toronto.citynews.ca

“Audrey has been the victim of a horrendous, vicious attack,” Staff Sgt. Steven Hrab said at a press conference on Friday.

“There was a sexual component to this attack. At the moment we believe it has been committed by a stranger or strangers. She suffered a number of stab wounds in addition to other injuries."




Officers spent the day searching the grounds around Gleave’s home, while forensic teams scoured the home’s interior for clues and removed her white sports car from the scene.
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Did LE ever locate the stabbing instrument? Do we know what it was? Knife? Other?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

“There was a sexual component to this attack. At the moment we believe it has been committed by a stranger or strangers. She suffered a number of stab wounds in addition to other injuries."

I took this quote from my link above. With all of the injuries, the killer must have been there a fairly long time. He had to first overpower Audrey and then commit these atrocities. I also wonder why LE thought there was more than one attacker. Maybe the sheer violence made it look like one person would have needed help? And no forced entry. Did she let him in? Or was she in the garage with the garage door open to blow away cigarette smoke?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The dog across the street belonged to LF who lived there with her husband, their dog and their son IIRC.

I'm not sure which dogs habits you're referring to, AG or LF?

I was referring to the dog across the street who barked at 2am. They originally said he usually was quiet through the night.IIRC

 

[Cedars]

“I also wonder why LE thought there was more than one attacker. Maybe the sheer violence made it look like one person would have needed help?

RSBM

IMO, police do not know whether there was one individual or multiple. So they don't jump to conclusions and state there was just one, or that there was more than one. They just keep an open mind.

Whereas the FBI profiler is guessing there was just one attacker based, IMO, on probability. Most often, in sex assault/ murder, one person acts alone (perhaps because they are deviant loners, rather than having a best friend who also wants to do it too). But again, that is not always the case, and might not be true, here.

In the Idaho university murders, 4 people were savagely murdered by a knife attack that lasted less than 20 mins (including the perp getting in and out of their car, and entering with no signs of forced entry). There was also a frantically barking dog and two other people inside the home. But no one reported anything.

In other cases, the killer has stayed in the home a leisurely amount of time: having a shower and doing laundry, rummaging drawers, even using the victim's computer.

30-year sentence in 'heinous' murder of Union Township woman

"The community of Union Township was horrified at this case. The community was in fear," said Superior Court Judge Joseph Donohue

www.nj.com

There is probably more information about Audrey's case, that police have not released. But they must believe that releasing it wouldn't help solve the crime.

There is the famous story from Sherlock Holmes about the curious case of the dog in the night time, but that's about why the dog didn't bark.

I personally don't put a lot of credit into stories like the barking dog, or Audrey's premonition. IMO something innocuous can be imagined into relevance after a shocking crime like this.

If someone had gotten up to investigate why the dog was barking, and seen something, then it would be relevant.

JMO

 

[whiterhino]

RSBM

IMO, police do not know whether there was one individual or multiple. So they don't jump to conclusions and state there was just one, or that there was more than one. They just keep an open mind.

Whereas the FBI profiler is guessing there was just one attacker based, IMO, on probability. Most often, in sex assault/ murder, one person acts alone (perhaps because they are deviant loners, rather than having a best friend who also wants to do it too). But again, that is not always the case, and might not be true, here.

In the Idaho university murders, 4 people were savagely murdered by a knife attack that lasted less than 20 mins (including the perp getting in and out of their car, and entering with no signs of forced entry). There was also a frantically barking dog and two other people inside the home. But no one reported anything.

In other cases, the killer has stayed in the home a leisurely amount of time: having a shower and doing laundry, rummaging drawers, even using the victim's computer.

30-year sentence in 'heinous' murder of Union Township woman

"The community of Union Township was horrified at this case. The community was in fear," said Superior Court Judge Joseph Donohue

www.nj.com

There is probably more information about Audrey's case, that police have not released. But they must believe that releasing it wouldn't help solve the crime.

There is the famous story from Sherlock Holmes about the curious case of the dog in the night time, but that's about why the dog didn't bark.

I personally don't put a lot of credit into stories like the barking dog, or Audrey's premonition. IMO something innocuous can be imagined into relevance after a shocking crime like this.

If someone had gotten up to investigate why the dog was barking, and seen something, then it would be relevant.

JMO

RBBM:

At one time many people thought Audreys Camaro might have been the motivation for the crime. Auto theft is often a two person job so I could see why LE might have been keeping an open mind.

I've been hesitating to mention the Idaho 4 in this thread. The profile that has been posted here in AGs case very much seems to describe the "profile" of the accused in the Idaho 4 case.

I think some of us want to connect a string from the barking dog to AGs house. To make sense of the dog barking at 2 am because Audrey was discovered deceased the following morning.

<modsnip: off topic>

 

[FromGermany1]

You know, with all these large dogs around and Audrey's two dogs, the killer had to be quite sure that he wouldn't be attacked.

I remember, that it was somehow questionable, if Audrey's dogs were sedated with maybe feeding them with something or in a different way. They were medically examined, if I remember well. At least one of the shepherds had a trauma, when he lived at his new owners, and didn't want to sleep in a cage by night.

 

[FromGermany1]

RBBM:

At one time many people thought Audreys Camaro might have been the motivation for the crime. Auto theft is often a two person job so I could see why LE might have been keeping an open mind.

I've been hesitating to mention the Idaho 4 in this thread. The profile that has been posted here in AGs case very much seems to describe the "profile" of the accused in the Idaho 4 case.

I think some of us want to connect a string from the barking dog to AGs house. To make sense of the dog barking at 2 am because Audrey was discovered deceased the following morning.

<modsnip: off topic>

I think, AG wasn't discovered the next morning but later.
Maybe, the dog of the neighbor was able to hear the sound of the 2 dogs of Audrey by night, when Audrey was assaulted? I don't know, if that would have been possible over the distance. I don't think, Audrey would have cried for help or out of pain. IMO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Audrey was not discovered until PK arrived and found her body. IIRC

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

@FromGermany1 I also doubt Audrey would have called out in pain but I do think she kicked and tried to fight off her attacker.

 

[whiterhino]

Audrey was not discovered until PK arrived and found her body. IIRC

LF told someone (LE or reporters) that their dog was barking at 2am (iirc on the 29th). PK reported finding Audrey on the morning of the 30th.

She had spoken to PK about rescheduling their original date which was the 27th. So between the 27th and the 30th. 3-4 day window. Of course there is also the forensic evidence. MOO.

Just wondering why anyone might think Audrey wouldn't cry or call out in pain? She had been stabbed several times. It would also be very difficult to fight back against your attacker after having been stabbed. But I do hope that Audrey was able to leave a mark on whomever attacked her. JMHO.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Hamilton police warn public after ‘horrific’ killing of woman

A veteran homicide detective described the murder of Audrey Gleave as horrendous, vicious and savage.

www.thestar.com

I hit a paywall but in this article it says that LF's dogs began barking at 2:30am. I had forgotten that it was dogS (plural). Apologies for getting the barking dogs' date wrong. Either way, I feel the barking dogs are significant.

Do we know if Audrey had been sedated/chloroformed before the killing began? Did LE get trace fibres from Audrey's clothing/body?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

UNSOLVED: Retired Hamilton schoolteacher found brutally murdered | INthehammer

Audrey Gleave, by all accounts, led a quiet life at her secluded, rural home in Lynden. Audrey Gleave, by all accounts, led a quiet life at her secluded, rural home in Lynden. She was a well-respected retired teacher who had a small, close-knit group of friends. She is said to have been...

hamilton.insauga.com

One frigid December morning in 2010 a friend who had plans with Gleave that day went to check on her and arrived at her home only to stumble across a gruesome scene: Gleave was on the ground in her garage apparently covered in blood and lifeless.


The friend immediately called 911 and police and EMS/Fire responded but Gleave had obviously been deceased for some time, police say.

----------------
Audrey had been deceased for some time when PK found her body. That fits in with the 3-day window of time.

 

[FromGermany1]

LF told someone (LE or reporters) that their dog was barking at 2am (iirc on the 29th). PK reported finding Audrey on the morning of the 30th.

She had spoken to PK about rescheduling their original date which was the 27th. So between the 27th and the 30th. 3-4 day window. Of course there is also the forensic evidence. MOO.

Just wondering why anyone might think Audrey wouldn't cry or call out in pain? She had been stabbed several times. It would also be very difficult to fight back against your attacker after having been stabbed. But I do hope that Audrey was able to leave a mark on whomever attacked her. JMHO.

I for my part think, Audrey didn't scream or cry, because she seemed always as controlled by her mind, and her mind would have told her, MOO: "Nobody will hear me at that time and that location, so I haven't to scream for help. It would be useless." - My speculation.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I for my part think, Audrey didn't scream or cry, because she seemed always as controlled by her mind, and her mind would have told her, MOO: "Nobody will hear me at that time and that location, so I haven't to scream for help. It would be useless." - My speculation.

I agree with @FromGermany1 here. Also, I can't see Audrey giving the killer the satisfaction of knowing he's hurting her. Audrey seemed too strong-willed for that.

 

[whiterhino]

I for my part think, Audrey didn't scream or cry, because she seemed always as controlled by her mind, and her mind would have told her, MOO: "Nobody will hear me at that time and that location, so I haven't to scream for help. It would be useless." - My speculation.

I agree with @FromGermany1 here. Also, I can't see Audrey giving the killer the satisfaction of knowing he's hurting her. Audrey seemed too strong-willed for that.

If Audrey had felt and known that she wasn't safe and had said so for some time, I can't imagine whenever she faced the killer in her presence, what her reaction might have been.

RBBM I agree

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I wonder if Audrey spoke to him. Why are you doing this? How did you find me?

 

[FromGermany1]

If Audrey had felt and known that she wasn't safe and had said so for some time, I can't imagine whenever she faced the killer in her presence, what her reaction might have been.

RBBM I agree

I don't remember, that she had fear for some time before her death.
If she had, certainly she wouldn't have sat in her garage with an OPEN garage door by night, IMO, like some members meant. Maybe, she also wouldn't have caged her shepherds at any time, her only "weapons", she had.