CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #10

[dotr]

Rbbm.

Audrey Gleave

On Thursday December 30, 2010, at 10:46 a.m., Hamilton Police Service received a 911 call from a male at a rural address on Indian Trail in Ancaster. The male reported finding his friend, Audrey Gleave, dead at her residence. HPS and EMS/Fire responded but Audrey had obviously been deceased for...

hamiltonpolice.on.ca

Case Number: 10380819
30 December 2010

''On Thursday December 30, 2010, at 10:46 a.m., Hamilton Police Service received a 911 call from a male at a rural address on Indian Trail in Ancaster. The male reported finding his friend, Audrey Gleave, dead at her residence. HPS and EMS/Fire responded but Audrey had obviously been deceased for some time. Gleave had been a very intelligent but somewhat reclusive retired school teacher. She had a limited circle of friends and her life was a matter of routine. There was no apparent motive for this homicide and it remains unsolved. There is every reason to believe that this murder was carried out by someone who knew Gleave and her routines.

Anyone with information about this homicide is being asked to contact S/Sgt Dave Oleniuk of the Major Crime Unit at 905-546-3829.''

 

[FromGermany1]

Do we know, if Audrey had a decorated Christmas tree in her home?
Do we know, if a Christmas tree was cut off on her own property? Did some fir trees grow there?

The little saw, which was found outdoors by officers/forensics, possibly was used or should have been used for cutting a Christmas tree ....

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Do we know, if Audrey had a decorated Christmas tree in her home?
Do we know, if a Christmas tree was cut off on her own property? Did some fir trees grow there?

The little saw, which was found outdoors by officers/forensics, possibly was used or should have been used for cutting a Christmas tree ....

Or even to make a little wreath for the front door maybe?

 

[whiterhino]

Who, other than Audrey, would know the password to her computer? Unless she left it on all the time.
BTW, were we ever told the time of death?

It's hard to find a proper timeline, even in the media thread.

IIRC the last time anyone saw Audrey alive was when LV brought AG soup on December 27th. The last time anyone heard from Audrey, it was email sent with a link to Amazing Grace.

I always wonder if Audrey ever got around to having the soup LV dropped off. Not that it means anything but it might further indicate a timeline? Homemade soup doesn't keep for that long unless you freeze it.

I know there's been discussion whether it was AG who sent the emails but I have to wonder why anyone else would spend time inside the home sending links to a song? That part doesn't make sense to me. JMO.

@FromGermany1 Good point. Was Audrey the type to do her own yardwork? Apparently she had a riding lawnmower at one point from one article I read.

I also wonder if Audreys dogs ever gave any alerts to someone being on the property? Something like sniffing the perimeter or certain areas of the yard etc. Dogs are very sensitive and breeds like German Shepherds are very territorial and protective by nature.

JMO.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Was Audrey's computer dusted for prints? I guess if they found PK's prints he would tell them he's her handyman and his prints were, no doubt, all over her house and garage. And car.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Copied from @whiterhino above:

I know there's been discussion whether it was AG who sent the emails but I have to wonder why anyone else would spend time inside the home sending links to a song? That part doesn't make sense to me. JMO.

Perhaps to establish a false timeline? I can't think of any other reason.

 

[whiterhino]

Copied from @whiterhino above:

I know there's been discussion whether it was AG who sent the emails but I have to wonder why anyone else would spend time inside the home sending links to a song? That part doesn't make sense to me. JMO.

Perhaps to establish a false timeline? I can't think of any other reason.

Perhaps. Considering AG was found in the garage and with the temperature fluctuating in winter, makes me wonder how narrow the timeline could have been.

Also consider the condition of the scene and the fact that no attempt was made to conceal anything. Does this indicate or hint at the type of "relationship" between the killer and AG? (as opposed to cases where the victim is hidden or covered up in some way etc)

JMO.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Perhaps. Considering AG was found in the garage and with the temperature fluctuating in winter, makes me wonder how narrow the timeline could have been.

Also consider the condition of the scene and the fact that no attempt was made to conceal anything. Does this indicate or hint at the type of "relationship" between the killer and AG? (as opposed to cases where the victim is hidden or covered up in some way etc)

JMO.

If memory serves, Safarik from the FBI said it was his opinion that Audrey and the killer knew each other.

Quoting myself from 2011:

Safarik says:

(The killer) has knowledge that an elderly female lives there by herself, said Mark Safarik, a retired FBI profiler with expertise in violent crime against the elderly.

Safarik said those who kill the elderly are not opportunistic offenders. They are not breaking into a place and stumbling upon the victim. He knows shes there, know shes by herself, and he goes there with intent to sexually assault and murder her. This is different than prior research suggesting women were opportunistic victims of non-violent offenders who become violent at the scene.

These are angry young men with pent-up rage toward women and likely live with a female authority figure, he said. They are socially incompetent men who perceive little control in their lives, are typically undereducated, have substance abuse problems and are unemployed or in a menial job.

For these guys, there is not a lot of planning, and they dont stay at the scene long. They leave evidence, dont clean up. They dont think that far ahead.

They use far more violence than necessary to kill. Overkill is indicative of their anger. This had been the case on Indian Trail.

They attack elderly women because they are easy targets a child does not present as ready a victim because he is seen as having guardianship, whereas an elderly woman on her own has none. These killers also tend to live relatively close to their victim.

 

[whiterhino]

If memory serves, Safarik from the FBI said it was his opinion that Audrey and the killer knew each other.

Quoting myself from 2011:

Safarik says:

(The killer) has knowledge that an elderly female lives there by herself, said Mark Safarik, a retired FBI profiler with expertise in violent crime against the elderly.

Safarik said those who kill the elderly are not opportunistic offenders. They are not breaking into a place and stumbling upon the victim. He knows shes there, know shes by herself, and he goes there with intent to sexually assault and murder her. This is different than prior research suggesting women were opportunistic victims of non-violent offenders who become violent at the scene.

These are angry young men with pent-up rage toward women and likely live with a female authority figure, he said. They are socially incompetent men who perceive little control in their lives, are typically undereducated, have substance abuse problems and are unemployed or in a menial job.

For these guys, there is not a lot of planning, and they dont stay at the scene long. They leave evidence, dont clean up. They dont think that far ahead.

They use far more violence than necessary to kill. Overkill is indicative of their anger. This had been the case on Indian Trail.

They attack elderly women because they are easy targets a child does not present as ready a victim because he is seen as having guardianship, whereas an elderly woman on her own has none. These killers also tend to live relatively close to their victim.

Interesting... Mostly because I was looking at Google maps and 2011 was the furthest I could go back to. Then I came back and you've added to your post!

I was trying to recall which property belonged to LV. Also, which neighbor is the one whose dog barked at 2a.m? Is the neighbor with the barking dog the same neighbor who got an email? I cannot retain the details.

From your post I have to wonder what is meant by "live relatively close to their victim", "angry young men" etc.

 

[Canadian4and1]

My sister lived on Indian Trail and I have never forgotten about Audrey. I want this one solved. IMO she knew her killer.

 

[Cedars]

Safarik says:

(The killer) has knowledge that an elderly female lives there by herself, said Mark Safarik, a retired FBI profiler with expertise in violent crime against the elderly.

Safarik said those who kill the elderly are not opportunistic offenders. They are not breaking into a place and stumbling upon the victim. He knows shes there, know shes by herself, and he goes there with intent to sexually assault and murder her. This is different than prior research suggesting women were opportunistic victims of non-violent offenders who become violent at the scene.

These are angry young men with pent-up rage toward women and likely live with a female authority figure, he said. They are socially incompetent men who perceive little control in their lives, are typically undereducated, have substance abuse problems and are unemployed or in a menial job.

For these guys, there is not a lot of planning, and they dont stay at the scene long. They leave evidence, dont clean up. They dont think that far ahead.

They use far more violence than necessary to kill. Overkill is indicative of their anger. This had been the case on Indian Trail.

They attack elderly women because they are easy targets a child does not present as ready a victim because he is seen as having guardianship, whereas an elderly woman on her own has none. These killers also tend to live relatively close to their victim.

RSBM

This makes sense to me.

I recall several such cases and you only have to google 'elderly woman murdered' to find examples. They are not personal crimes with a personal motive, they are purely predatory. That explains the extreme violence and sex assault.

The person wouldn't move the body because they don't believe there's anything that would make police suspect them.

In some cases it's a person who lives on the same street/prowls at night and can watch to learn the victim's routine. Also her car might have attracted attention and someone may have started following her.

In terms of her routine that her killer knew (per police), the Spec articles I could read before being blocked, said she was often up all night.

I wonder whether she drove around at night? Someone might have be able to slip into her garage as she returned. It's otherwise difficult to explain why she was attacked in there, and wearing her coat.
JMO

ETA: I don't think the FBI profiler said the killer and Audrey knew each other. Rather, the killer knew about Audrey.

 

[whiterhino]

RSBM

This makes sense to me.

I recall several such cases and you only have to google 'elderly woman murdered' to find examples. They are not personal crimes with a personal motive, they are purely predatory. That explains the extreme violence and sex assault.

The person wouldn't move the body because they don't believe there's anything that would make police suspect them.

In some cases it's a person who lives on the same street/prowls at night and can watch to learn the victim's routine. Also her car might have attracted attention and someone may have started following her.

In terms of her routine that her killer knew (per police), the Spec articles I could read before being blocked, said she was often up all night.

I wonder whether she drove around at night? Someone might have be able to slip into her garage as she returned. It's otherwise difficult to explain why she was attacked in there, and wearing her coat.
JMO

ETA: I don't think the FBI profiler said the killer and Audrey knew each other. Rather, the killer knew about Audrey.

My thoughts exactly!

RBBM I've read this as well.

RBBM: A ruse?

This.

JMHO.

 

[Warwick1991]

Or even to make a little wreath for the front door maybe?

A drywall saw, if that's what it was, is generally good for pushing through material only. I have one, and it is relatively thin and extremely sharp. Most drywall saws have a knife-like silhouette. They aren't good for cutting wood IMO, but they could be used as a weapon. I don't like working with mine because it's so sharp. Electricians use them to cut out openings in drywall, and remodelers often have them. It's an odd thing to find outside, unless it was used in the crime.

 

[Sillybilly]

IIRC it was a description in the Shelly Loder case of a suspect with reddish hair.

This is the sketch of that individual:

from: Man seen near Mono attack

 

[FromGermany1]

This is the sketch of that individual:

from: Man seen near Mono attack

View attachment 553831

Eyes wide open: Brilliant, reclusive and enigmatic, Audrey owned two German shepherds for protection

Darkness on Indian Trail Part 2: Jon Wells looks at the intensely private woman

www.thespec.com

I'm posting for a certain image ..... (insiders would know).

Hair color of the man, seen near Mono, was described as being orange, as far as I remember. Could it have been a wig perhaps? Or quickly washable hair color?

Though I don't think, Shelley's perp has to be the same one as Audrey's murderer. But maybe, it is indeed the same person?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Didn't someone in LE also say "Look young and look close"?

 

[dotr]

Didn't someone in LE also say "Look young and look close"?

Death's Shadow Page 10 Read online free by Jon Wells

Read Death's Shadow Page 10 by Jon Wells online free high quality at Book Read Free.

bookreadfree.com

''But a homeless guy in his forties or fifties?” Safarik asked rhetorically when considering the Gleave case. “Hmm.… My advice is look young and look close.”

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Putting this link here for all of us if some don't already have it.

Death's Shadow Page 10 Read online free by Jon Wells

Read Death's Shadow Page 10 by Jon Wells online free high quality at Book Read Free.

bookreadfree.com

Snippet

That Christmas she had felt under the weather. On Monday morning, December 27, Audrey emailed Phil and declared she would make her Wednesday coffee meeting come hell or high water. Lynne Vanstone brought her soup. Later that day, at about 6:00 p.m., she emailed a friend, Linda. She forwarded Linda the same music video she had sent Phil that morning.

Just after 2:00 a.m., Wednesday, December 29, a big, male chocolate Labrador living on a property across the road from Audrey’s barked wildly, although that was not entirely unusual for the dog. Later that morning Audrey did not make her regular coffee gathering.

Just after midnight on Thursday, December 30, fog hung in the darkness over the snow-covered ground. Then it turned to freezing fog, which, as Audrey would have known better than most, occurs when water droplets supercool and freeze on contact with a surface.

Later that morning it rained. Phil Kinsman spoke to a writer from the Hamilton Spectator, relating his experience of what happened to him that morning. He had hesitated to talk about it with friends and classmates. Everyone wanted to share a theory about the mystery, ask him what he knew. It bothered him. He wanted to talk about Audrey’s life, not her death.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Did LE ever locate the soup from LV? If so, where was it?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

From page 12 of the link above:

The rendition begins with a single musician playing a pennywhistle. It grows larger, Rieu on his violin, then other sections, including a bagpiper, joining in wave upon wave, until the stirring climax — the soul-shaking lament of 300 pipers and a choir singing. It brings audience members to tears.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,

That saved a wretch like me.

I once was lost, but now am found,

Was blind, but now I see.

In the past couple of years, Audrey had talked more about the end of her life. And she had had that premonition, long ago, that it would end suddenly and violently. Being moved by that video, sending it to friends, was it a sign? Did the beautiful mind sense something — mortality, perhaps — approaching that bright morning, two days after Christmas? How many times did she replay the song, which is about redemption, about having the soul delivered from despair through the mercy of God?

Audrey Gleave wasn’t religious, at least not by appearances. But she asked questions about faith, and was curious about all things. But then no one knew what existed behind the face she presented to the world. The rest of her life numbered mere hours after absorbing the vibrations of that song. Perhaps, when the final darkness descended, she heard its heavenly echoes, and that music, not the killer, was her final companion.