CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #10

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Do we know how long the dogs might have been crated before PK found Audrey? The amount of feces, etc?

 

[FromGermany1]

Do we know how long the dogs might have been crated before PK found Audrey? The amount of feces, etc?

Afaik, we didn't learn of it.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Afaik, we didn't learn of it.

That's what I think as well. IF the killer had been in the home for three days, that would be a telling sign.

 

[FromGermany1]

That's what I think as well. IF the killer had been in the home for three days, that would be a telling sign.

If it was someone close, I can't imagine, the person stayed there for so long.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

If it was someone close, I can't imagine, the person stayed there for so long.

Look young and look close, LE said.

 

[Parsnip]

If it was someone close, I can't imagine, the person stayed there for so long.

I agree, @FromGermany1. If it were someone close, that person may have been able to access the premises more than once over a few days.

 

[FromGermany1]

I agree, @FromGermany1. If it were someone close, that person may have been able to access the premises more than once over a few days.

Someone close would have known of AG's handyman and had to expect him showing up for some reasons suddenly. After all it was Christmas time. IMO

 

[Parsnip]

I would like to hear from those of you who followed this case for a long time. I have been bothered by the phone call PK made to Audrey regarding the rescheduling of the delivery of the cake. It seems innocuous. Just a heads up that he is running late.

 

[whiterhino]

I think, AG did choose him as her handyman, when she heard about his ambitious future plans perhaps. Was certainly a criterion for her.

Yes I agree and recall reading something to that effect in an article somewhere.

Where and how did AG meet PK? PK lived with his parents very nearby AG when she first hired him at 18. Is this when/how they first met? Just wondering as there is no mention of a relationship between AG and PKs parents.

 

[whiterhino]

JMO there are only a handful of evil reasons why the killer might linger at the property.

@Parsnip What is it about the call from PK that bothers you?

 

[FromGermany1]

I would like to hear from those of you who followed this case for a long time. I have been bothered by the phone call PK made to Audrey regarding the rescheduling of the delivery of the cake. It seems innocuous. Just a heads up that he is running late.

The call theoretically could have been an alibi for being in the dark about what he would find sometime later: his murdered dead friend Audrey. The whole Christmas cake story incl. the handover on the morning, he found AG murdered, could have been a well thought out plan. The call re delay could have been one untrue detail of the story.
Who needs a Christmas cake, when Christmas is already over? You are eating this type of cake (allegedly "Stollen") during Advent season and maybe the last pieces of it on 3 Christmas days. Audrey felt sick, but not with gastrointestinal disorder. So no reason, not to eat a piece of cake, which could have been dropped off at her doorstep (without visit indoors).
IMO + MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

In memory of Audrey - the infamous "Stollen" (German Christmas bread).

(Sometimes another type of cake was mentioned, but first was the "Stollen", true or not true,)

 

[Parsnip]

@Parsnip What is it about the call from PK that bothers you?

I’m not sure, but I keep mulling it over, as if there is a clue there…and I wonder whether he left a message on an answering machine.

If the “late” call took place and was in earnest, it makes perfect sense, as PK stated that Audrey was a stickler for being on time. I do wonder why he’d be an hour late, though. The date and time were prearranged, so he would have known his wife’s schedule and when he had to take her to work. If the weather was bad, he would have called during the drive, and an hour seems an excessive amount of time to be late. If his wife suddenly needed a ride (say she had problems with her own car), then the call would have been made when he was alerted to the situation, probably much earlier in the morning.

If the call took place, but it was a misdirection, surely he would have left a vm. Then when he was asked about his recent contact with Audrey, he could recount that he had called her that same day with no response and that he called because he was running late. Still, an hour is a long time to be late. If the call is a misdirection, the fact that he states he is going to be late seems like the misdirection, rather than the call itself. Unless, of course, he just wanted to reassure himself that nobody would pick up the phone, which is entirely possible, imo.

All of this to say: that darn call niggles at me, and I wish we knew when he made it, from what phone, and whether a vm was left.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Audrey met PK when he was working at Windmill.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

@Parsnip I’ve been here since the very beginning and the delivery of the cake bothers me,too.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

And after all that happened, finding a deceased person, I think he and his wife ate the cake. IIRC

 

[Parsnip]

And after all that happened, finding a deceased person, I think he and his wife ate the cake. IIRC

Yes, and I would think his wife would have been asked about that. Presumably, she corroborated everything he said since he was eliminated from the investigation so early. It had to have been an alibi that eliminated him, imo.

 

[FromGermany1]

This cake (Stollen), if it ever was baked by PK's wife, is especially intended for longer storage. No need, to bake the cake fresh and bring it to Audrey. No need, to eat it immediately, when he brought the cake home again.
In addition: PK had to take his wife to her workplace (therefore delayed the visit at AG), but she was present then to eat the cake with him, when he returned from the crime scene?? Makes no sense. IMO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I COULD EASILY BE WRONG HERE, so please try to look up facts on this - but if my poor memory serves me correctly, when PK was interviewed by LE there were discrepancies in his story about the cake/delivery/etc. Please look back to see if I'm right.

 

[dotr]

BEHIND THE CRIMES: Handyman finds senior after ‘horrendous, vicious attack’

It's been nearly a decade since Audrey Gleave, 73, was found murdered in her Lynden home.

www.toronto.com

• Jul 16, 2020

''Kinsman, who lived in West Hamilton, had done odd jobs for Gleave and was one of the few people invited into her home.

He met Gleave when he was 18 working at Windmill Power Equipment in Dundas. She needed someone to help her around the property. At the time he lived with his parents in Brantford — just 5 minutes from Gleave.

When he would visit, Kinsman would customarily key the code into her garage, where they would chat or sit inside on a sofa. Her two dogs were so protective they would circle Gleave as though forming a wall, barking and nipping at Kinsman no matter how many times he visited.

On Dec. 30, he was bringing Gleave a piece of her favourite cake and keyed in the code. But when the door rose, he saw her body.

Although the garage was attached to the house, Gleave’s two German shepherds had been in the house — apparently unable to save her.''
rbbm

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'' Hrab did not reveal additional pieces of the picture, details only the killer would know, what investigators call “holdback evidence.” He spoke of a vicious stabbing but did not talk about other weapons (at least one other had been used), or the nature of the “sexual component” — it had included a perverse act that went beyond a conventional assault; the killer had taken something from the victim, as though making off with a souvenir.''