CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[nicgumshoe]

Quoting myself, again! Another phrase jumped out at me:

"likely in her garage". So, LE isn't certain where exactly AG was killed? Could it have been in the house? Were there signs of the attack in the garage? If yes, why didn't PK mention it to LE and to us? And to Jon Wells? :waitasec:

My guess is the Spec has about as much info as we do (LE isn't filling them in), and from what has been said in other Spec articles, the garage seems like the place.

The dogs being in the crate or basement is puzzling. It may lead one to believe a known perp was in the house, and the dogs were crated for that. But if the perp first came to the door, she may have crated the dogs to prevent them from rushing the door when she opened it, before sending whoever to the garage. Or if she just waved the perp over to the garage, she may have crated them to prevent them from causing any havoc in the house while she was in the garage talking.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

nicgumshoe said "known perp". I'm assuming we still think AG was killed by someone known to her? Well, I think that, at least!:twocents:

 

[nicgumshoe]

nicgumshoe said "known perp". I'm assuming we still think AG was killed by someone known to her? Well, I think that, at least!:twocents:

I'm all for that too. (Thanks NSU. Glad you clarified that; I meant known to her, but not necessarily to us).

I think the crating of the dogs, for any reason when someone came by, is evidence of that. (Or, she mistakenly trusted the perp because she felt she was dealing with an LE officer, or someone else we tend to place instant trust in.)

 

[roseofsharon]

nicgumshoe said "known perp". I'm assuming we still think AG was killed by someone known to her? Well, I think that, at least!:twocents:

I'm with you NSU -- because of the location of AG's home, I just can't think of why a person would be on that road at that time of the year and I don't think any visiting relative with neighbours is the perp.

IMO, that just doesn't make a lot of sense. The perp would have been blood spattered and neighbour would have noticed their friend/relative missing/needing a shower/needing to wash their clothes immediately.

Just this one thought came to me this morning -- AG emailed that LV was bringing soup. Do we know if it was LV who dropped off soup or did LV ask a relative to drop off the soup. A relative of LV's would have been a familiar face to AG I would think after a 30 year friendship with LV.

Did LV state she dropped off the soup, as I have never read that, only that AG emailed that she would be.

IMO

 

[libyana]

I am sure if the perp came purposely to murder AG, he would not have gone up the driveway. If he had weapons he would know the deed would be bloody and maybe came "dressed to kill" so to speak with a spare set of clothing.
I wonder what, besides a small saw LE found around the property.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Wow, roseofsharon, that's good!! Also, about the LV and the soup thing - do we know that the soup was homemade (like the cake!!) and brought personally to AG?

For example, I'm wondering if there is a local, hot soup delivery place where LV and AG often had soup, etc. delivered from?

I'm thinking this because when my dad died, my husband and I were travelling from our home to my parents' place a lot (about 60 miles from our home, in December and January). Finally, we were both just exhausted. We found a 'soup & sandwiches' place in our neighbourhood which delivered to us to keep us going during a difficult time.

Maybe it was the same sort of thing with LV?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I am sure if the perp came purposely to murder AG, he would not have gone up the driveway. If he had weapons he would know the deed would be bloody and maybe came "dressed to kill" so to speak with a spare set of clothing.
I wonder what, besides a small saw LE found around the property.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post!!

 

[dotr]

Having trouble finding the video - a search brings up a CHCH article date 4 January 2011 titled 'Friend occupying Gleave home' which is no longer available. While I suspect that was it, I have no way of knowing now. Sorry.

Did a hunt for it last night, nearly drove me nuts because I remember the one you were referring to..maybe I need to find a different way to locate those clips,while they still exist...

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Did a hunt for it last night, nearly drove me nuts because I remember the one you were referring to..maybe I need to find a different way to locate those clips,while they still exist...

Is this the clip?

http://www.chch.com/index.php/home/item/1654-friend-occupying-gleave-home

ETA: I had forgotten that 'Mrs.PK' was with him for the interview!

 

[nicgumshoe]

I'm with you NSU -- because of the location of AG's home, I just can't think of why a person would be on that road at that time of the year and I don't think any visiting relative with neighbours is the perp.

IMO, that just doesn't make a lot of sense. The perp would have been blood spattered and neighbour would have noticed their friend/relative missing/needing a shower/needing to wash their clothes immediately.

Just this one thought came to me this morning -- AG emailed that LV was bringing soup. Do we know if it was LV who dropped off soup or did LV ask a relative to drop off the soup. A relative of LV's would have been a familiar face to AG I would think after a 30 year friendship with LV.

Did LV state she dropped off the soup, as I have never read that, only that AG emailed that she would be.

IMO

From this article it sounds like LV did bring the soup herself,

"Vanstone said she last saw Gleave Dec. 27."

from: http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2913418

 

[nicgumshoe]

Is this the clip?

http://www.chch.com/index.php/home/item/1654-friend-occupying-gleave-home

ETA: I had forgotten that 'Mrs.PK' was with him for the interview!

That looks like it must be the one. nice find!

Speaking of coming "dressed to kill", I wonder where PK's jacket is. Everyone else has a jacket on.
ie: did he leave it in the house while cleaning, or did he not have one with him that day?

 

[Woodland]

Good clip, but not the one I was referring to. This one is the day before the funeral, I'm sure the one I referred to is soon after. Both are shot from the same angle, but the other one clearly shows a large red bin in the background and a man is present as well - Mr and Mrs PK are not in the other one. At the end of the other one, both LV and the male turn and walk towards the garage door.

This clip is the day before the funeral and PK is too upset to speak on camera, according to the person giving the commentary.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Thanks for the link, nic. Now, please remind me - what do we know happened in between the LV soup delivery and the PK finding AG?

Thanks.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Good clip, but not the one I was referring to. This one is the day before the funeral, I'm sure the one I referred to is soon after. Both are shot from the same angle, but the other one clearly shows a large red bin in the background and a man is present as well - Mr and Mrs PK are not in the other one. At the end of the other one, both LV and the male turn and walk towards the garage door.

This clip is the day before the funeral and PK is too upset to speak on camera, according to the person giving the commentary.

OK, I'll look for the clip. And the male with LV is not a police officer?

-----------------------------

ETA: It seems impossible to find!!

 

[Woodland]

Hope you can find something - the male is not dressed in a police uniform - casual clothing.

 

[Hazel]

Hope you can find something - the male is not dressed in a police uniform - casual clothing.

I know which Video clip you are referring to Woodland ....I belived I made some screenshots from that one ...lemme remember.....................................................................................................................................................................
hmmm, pretty sure is the one where I pointed out (with arrows) that it was a 2-door garage and that there was a window inside the garage !!
That detail should help to find that video in question

I also remember seeing the picture Sillybilly is refering to, where Audrey is sitting on a sofa/chair reading either a Birthday card or Christmas card.... taken from the side.

 

[Hazel]

FOUND IT!!! (much easier to look for screenshots than for a video link )

From Thread # 1 -- posts # 142, 143 and 145 : http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6002779#post6002779


Link to the video in question, which contains BOTH:

- the picture of Audrey reading her Birthday/Christmas card (01:44 mark in video)

- images of the gentlemen helping out LV dispose of Audrey's belongings (starting at 00:27 mark and again starting at the 01:23 mark)

VIDEO: http://www.chchnews.ca/index.php/home/item/1669

 

[nicgumshoe]

Thanks for the link, nic. Now, please remind me - what do we know happened in between the LV soup delivery and the PK finding AG?

Thanks.

I believe she went to the vet after the soup (for vitamins for the dogs) and then sent her final email to a neighbor (LA?) at around 6 pm. That is supposedly the last time she was ever heard from.

Now one interesting thing about the vet is that we've been given 3 dates for the last time he supposedly saw AG:

1) a couple of days before xmas:

"Dudley Collins, who knew her for 30 years and last saw her a couple of days before Christmas."

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/309093--friends-remember-audrey-gleave

2) On the 28th. picture #5 in the Scridb thingy in the Wells story:

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

3) and Monday the 27th, mentioned in the actual body of the story: see same link, above.

"Monday afternoon she loaded Togi and Schatze into the Camaro and visited veterinarian Dudley Collins in Ancaster to pick up vitamins for the German shepherds. She let the dogs run on his property as usual. She gave him a hug when she left, as she often did."

So the Spec has given us 3 different dates. But the 27th seems to be the accepted one....for some reason.

 

[Woodland]

Hazel - I really like the shots of AG's home and glad you re-posted them.

This is not the guy though that I was wondering about, but now I wonder who this guy is.

The other guy (with a large red bin in the background) was not this tall - he wasn't much taller than LV. To the best of my recollection, he was wearing blue jeans and medium blue ski jacket.

Wonder if AG knew both of these gentlemen?

 

[roseofsharon]

Paraphrasing: LV says AG was so private that she did not even tell LV that she had another friend living in the same neighbourhood as LV.

I wonder if the friend is male or female and why would this be something AG didn't talk about.

Do we know if LV knew she was the beneficiary of AG's will. She knew she was the executrix, but what about beneficiary? If LV knew this, did any of LV's relatives know this?

Paraphrasing: PK said he and AG discussed what would be done/happen if AG should die.

I just find this comment a little peculiar because AG was so intelligent and it does not sound like something a very smart person would say ...... What would be done??

I'm sure AG attended her share of funerals in her time and knew exactly what would have to be done after someone dies, i.e. funeral, will, selling home, etc., etc. AG must have been involved in her parent's funerals.

Hopefully, LE has questioned all persons who were at the vet's office around the same time as AG.

After reviewing the pic's of outside AG's home, where did all the planting take place and of what? There are no demarcations of burm gardens anywhere or anything around the perimeter of what I can see of the home. What kind of handyman work did PK do for AG?

Just some thoughts -- sorry for being all over the map!!

IMO