CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

[Sillybilly]

from "Audrey's story continues" - Part II by Jon Wells:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

<bbm>

Sounds like quite the nighthawk. Would AG be up to a meet and greet early in the day?

Debunking my own words here ...

Was thinking about the email to PK the morning of the 27th ... not only was it sent in the morning, but she said that Lynne was coming over in a bit with the soup. I believe there were some other references to her "morning" coffee with the retired teachers. It sounds like Audrey maybe didn't really have a sleep routine. Perhaps she was just too fascinated with life to bother going to bed when she was into something interesting.

 

[Sillybilly]

Just what we need SB another theory (!) but yes that would be interesting to know - wouldn't it be strange if after all our speculation it turned out to be something that simple OxyC and a skirmish.

LOL, wasn't much of a theory Chorley ... AG's murder reeks of overkill (denoting personal rage), and with the sexual component, and perhaps staging ... doesn't sound like something your average druggie would take the time to bother with in a simple quest for a fix.

JMO

 

[Chorley8]

LOL, wasn't much of a theory Chorley ... AG's murder reeks of overkill (denoting personal rage), and with the sexual component, and perhaps staging ... doesn't sound like something your average druggie would take the time to bother with in a simple quest for a fix.

JMO

Agreed.

 

[dotr]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/11/28/20393136.html
TORONTO - Lionel Butler — a 90-year-old war veteran and ex-championship Toronto boxer — was so badly hurt by two accused female home invaders that he barely recalls being beaten, cut and robbed, a worried and disgusted detective told the Sun."

 

[Chorley8]

"Released with a promise to appear in court". With 80,000 missing? - and at 90 any hit on the head is basically attempted murder. Wow.

I don't think this will be useful but since the case isn't exactly speeding along: here is some info on the company Greening Wire Audrey's Dad was working at when they were living pretty humbly at 19 Mulberry Street in Hamilton in 1954. It still exists in a modified form in fact they have a newish factory in Orangeville on Commerce Road not far from Sonia V.'s house on Spring Street - no I don't think we can link anything. There were two Catholic schools St. Mary's and St. Augustine's on the street in those days Italians East Europeans not many WASPS.

http://www.lib.uwo.ca/programs/companyinformationcanada/ccc-greening.htm

 

[Chorley8]

One thing maybe we haven't emphasized. We have a pretty clear picture of Audrey, her two sides, (at least) very interested in the world, involved, many interests but VERY wary of ........something.

I am thinking it is interesting that she also had this difficult relationship with her mother to the point of pretending she didn't exist. Yet the Spectator reporter was able to show that she had been living a few years before Audrey was killed on South Oval a short walk to Westdale School where Audrey had taught. Why not say you had no contact with your mother why not say she had died or moved away - why disappeared?

We don't know much about her relationship about her father except he fairly obviously influenced in in her interest in science.

Somebody broached the idea that something went wrong around Audrey's Chalk River period, her grade school plans changing - her decision a few years later to become a teacher. Is her 1. difficult to the point of extinct relationship with her mother 2. premonition of being raped and killed if true 3. her various phobias about having her real named used to the point of cutting off people who made an innocent mistake 4. her eventual murder .......have anything to do with each other? Now it could just be that she cut people off easily whether Mom or those who forgot she was Bary not Audrey. But is there anything else there I mean from years ago?

If so does involve her directly or could it be something to do with her father?

On the father theme could Doveiko/Doveika and J. Sovka have known each other is that possible? Was Det. H. chosen for his Eastern Euro family routes or did that have nothing to do with it. (I would guess Czech or Slovak?).

Anyone know the name of her FIRST husband maybe it is on the thread somewhere.

 

[Chorley8]

In 1954 while her Dad was at Greening there were four male Gleaves in the City Directory one Allan G. who is listed as a Hamilton police Sergeant married, three others working at Firestone, Dofasco, Aitchison Lumber all married basic Hamilton stuff in those days.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Catching up before I head out for the day. Some very interesting stuff here.

My thoughts:

[modsnip]

- I wonder why Audrey had this extreme need for privacy (but that said, I also am very private on the internet.....never posting a photo of myself, no personal info at all.....it's just safer that way, I think)

- my feelings are that her murder was closer to home, to Hamilton, to her present day community rather than the Chalk River place or even a foreign country (I could be terribly wrong, of course)

- about the use of Oxycontin - I highly doubt a physician would prescribe OxyC for daily arthritis use.....but she could have been prescribed it once and became addicted

- to our knowledge, was Audrey ever in a severe accident.....hence the prescription of OxyC

- did Audrey ever have a surgical proceedure requiring heavy duty meds for a while

So many questions...........:twocents:

 

[Chorley8]

Hamilton Spectator June 7th 2011 basically the "expert" is saying that the case won't be solved unless the perp commits another crime not something we can hope for.

"When investigators spend months building a case around a particular suspect and then that case falls apart, it can be almost impossible to go back to the beginning, he said, adding that a considerable amount of time and resources have already been spent.

Barring a major break, such as a sudden DNA match or new eyewitness coming forward, these cases go cold and are not solved, Brienza said.

It’s become a trend for police to believe forensic tests will back up their cases, he said. Investigators are now under double the pressure — to find a violent killer and to reassure the public they are safe.

James Adcock, a professor, author and cold case expert who consults police in the United States, said police services investigating homicides often fall victim to “booby traps,” including tunnel vision.

DNA only solves about 30 per cent of cases, he added.

In his opinion, and without having read the police notes on the case, he said Scott doesn’t meet the profile of the murder.

People who behave oddly can be easy targets, he said.

Given the severity of Gleave’s beating and her extremely private and quiet lifestyle, Adcock believes the murder was done out of anger and was likely committed by someone she knew, someone who was watching her or someone with issues related to women.

Police need to go back and start again with the victim’s profile, he suggested. “If you know your victim, you know your murderer.”

In most homicide investigations, the killer is known to police within the first 30 days but may not be considered a suspect because they are nice or co-operative, he said.

Adcock warned that unless Gleave was murdered for a deeply personal reason, there is a likelihood the killer could strike again.

“This is not going to be the last,” he said.

Adcock also suggested police look for sexual assault cases in the area. There is a still-unexplained sexual component to Gleave’s murder."

 

[Sillybilly]

From that same linked article, pondering this:

Lynne handled all the arrangements. She could not fulfil Audrey's request to bury her ashes in the pet cemetery beside two of her previous German shepherds &#8212; that is illegal in Ontario.

Anyone know why this is illegal? Doesn't make any sense to me and pees me off that Audrey's final wishes could not be adhered to when she had such a love for her animals.

No disrespect intended, but I think I'd have written "Precious" on the box and buried it anyway

 

[dotr]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/11/28/20392661.html
"
Daughter confines elderly mom, forces her to sign paper willing her family home"

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I tried to research if humans are allowed to be buried in a pet cemetery and all I could find was that it IS AGAINST THE LAW FOR PETS TO BE BURIED IN A HUMAN'S CEMETERY.

If anyone had any respect for Audrey's wishes, I'd have hoped her wishes would have been fulfilled......law or no law.

Where are Audrey's dear friends now? Are they pressuring the police to continue with the case? Why doesn't PK step forward to assist the police with their work for his dear friend?

:twocents:

 

[Chorley8]

Re "hinky meters" yes and ditto for the financial angel that things just don't seem right.

And I agree with what is said about the discussion about the first hug. I think there is more cold evidence for the financial angle than the male rage angle though.

It could be a plot among several of the friends of course but I would come back to the fact that unless LE is sleeping surely they would be able to crack that.

Also I have been looking at maps Mono Orangeville area and I certainly see what No Stone and others are getting at when they are thinking of one perp certainly for S.L and SV and possibly AG. Again though this would be opening a lot of evidence how could they not crack it?

No Stone if you can refresh my memory what do you think of the SL person of interest sketch?

I broached the notion of the young friend being "protected" and I admit I tend to go there a bit too easily have been supressing it at least here. We can't sleuthe the innocent but certainly re the young friend.....cetainly if you google the name you will quickly find someone who is probably not related but who would fit who would be big enough...possibly.... if you believe in corruption.....it is a difficult day not to think of mighty powers thinking of D's recent post/link and any newspaper headline today.

And there is something there relating in that name on Wiki to precious metals. And for intuitive reasons partly and well also the mystery of money the lack of it just 50 k and just something about Audrey that made me think she might keep cash in gold silver platinum I don't know why exactly. Or stock....something that could be manipulated before or after death.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Chorley:

No Stone if you can refresh my memory what do you think of the SL person of interest sketch?



[modsnip]

The different hair can easily be accounted for in that the perp left his hair "loose", without hair products. As for the difference in size, I assume that eye witnesses perhaps "saw" the potential perp as larger than life. Perhaps in their minds' eye, anyone who bashed SL unconscious HAD to be a taller and larger guy.

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

And getting back as to WHY I still think that SL, SV and AG were attacked/killed by the same perp is really quite simple........one would think that at least one of these cases would be solved by now.

A jealous boyfriend, a nasty husband, a cruel child, a long lost friend......someone!

But, rather we have have THREE unsolved crimes in Southern Ontario which all took place in 2010 from August to December.

How do we explain the fact that NONE of these crimes has been solved?

And the places are really not that far apart.......Mono, Orangeville and Ancaster!

:twocents:

 

[LilyMacBloom]

I don't know any of the following as a fact just pointing out what I think:

there is a group of ladies, members, don't know if it is a sort of drop in thing at the Country Club who meet to play Bridge. I'm not sure if it's a once a week thing or a daily time slot I'm thinking weekly. I feel certain that is the group AG would have played with before she thought she was too good for them and started playing the puter instead.

Also, AG quit golfing due to bad knees (arthritis)? therefore I feel certain , very very certain, she would at least take some over the counter pain releiver. Ummm, most of us ladies of a certain age take some sort of something every once in a while.

MY understanding is that the ladies who knew AG just want all this to go away because its too evil to even think of. (my phrasing) although I'm certain they want the perp caught they don't want to think or talk about this horrible thing. (that's my take on it anyway)

 

[dotr]

O/T?? Do they also print wedding invitations?...
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/30/cult-like-churchs-printing-company-linked-to-gta-school-board

"A Mississauga printing company linked to a cult-like church being investigated by the OPP on allegations of polygamy and underage sex has been doing work for years for the Dufferin-Peel District Catholic School Board, the Toronto Sun has learned"

 

[dotr]

I don't know any of the following as a fact just pointing out what I think:

there is a group of ladies, members, don't know if it is a sort of drop in thing at the Country Club who meet to play Bridge. I'm not sure if it's a once a week thing or a daily time slot I'm thinking weekly. I feel certain that is the group AG would have played with before she thought she was too good for them and started playing the puter instead.

Also, AG quit golfing due to bad knees (arthritis)? therefore I feel certain , very very certain, she would at least take some over the counter pain releiver. Ummm, most of us ladies of a certain age take some sort of something every once in a while.

MY understanding is that the ladies who knew AG just want all this to go away because its too evil to even think of. (my phrasing) although I'm certain they want the perp caught they don't want to think or talk about this horrible thing. (that's my take on it anyway)

BBM.
When a friend/ colleague was murdered in cold-blood on a tony public street by some random underage punks, I felt compelled to protect my memory of this gentle person and not have them seen in the ugly truth of news headlines.
The flip side of that coin is that the sobs were arrested in good time (out now though) poor once unnamed dears, I bet at least one of them probably grew up the Butt of ridicule . (sorry for the mini-rant)

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Lily MacBloom:

I feel certain that is the group AG would have played with before she thought she was too good for them and started playing the puter instead.



Lily, (my memory is absent today!) but how do we know that Audrey said/felt that 'she was too good to play with them'?

Did she say it right out loud to the group - 'I'm leaving because you guys can't hold a candle to the way I play' type of thing? How did this group KNOW FOR A FACT that Audrey prefered to play on the 'puter?

Have the members of this group been interrogated by LE and perhaps polygraphed?

And as for the aching knees thing - I'm right there with you. I have a weekly acupuncture session to soothe my aching knees/bones.

 

[dotr]

Considering the relative proximity of Miss.to Hamilton and the connection between cruelty to animals with cruelty to humans, posting this...
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/art...f-malicious-attack-dumped-in-mississauga-park

"Dead dog victim of “malicious” attack dumped in Mississauga park

Published on Friday November 30, 2012"